My first day reloading

[lyallpeder]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Well got the first 2 batches finished. 22 rounds of both H1000 and IMR 4831.




Going to try .308 tomorrow and I should have a nice long day at the range Sunday. Maybe I’ll go Monday too to break it up a bit.

I put each load into its own zip lock bag with a square of paper saying the data. I find thats the easiest way to keep them straight

[Digger1]

Another thing that will make a stiff bolt is several firings with only neck resizing. Mine start stiffening at about 6 firings. In my 6.5x55 Mauser 98 I went 10-12 firings on Nosler brass before full length resizing. I’m only running 2700 fps so definitely not running hot, but just turned in a 5/8” group at 275 yards this evening with 12x fired brass. Fun fun.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by gtr

Looks like your paying attention. Don't over think it. Good luck

This, and wouldn't crimp, your doing great.

[DiabeticKripple]

Well I’m an idiot and totally forgot the chronograph at home in Red Deer, my range is CDTSA so I couldn’t track that lol.

I got some really good groups in both rifles, even though I only did 3 round groups. I figured I could save some money by shooting 3’s, seeing what’s close, and then working into 5’s.

Here are my best groups for the day. One was only a 2 shot group (I only loaded 2 at my start load)

This was factory 165gr TTSX in the 308


2 shot group of 308 with 42.5gr of Varget


3 shot group of 308 with 45.0gr of Varget. This was my max load and had a stiff bolt, brass and primer look perfect


3 shot group of 7RM with 60.5gr of IMR4831. This was close to max and I didn’t have any pressure signs, bolt lift was normal, brass and primers are perfect.


2 shot group of 7RM with 57.0gr of IMR4831. This was a start load so I only loaded 2. Turns out it might be pretty accurate.


3 shot group of 7RM with 66.5gr of H1000. This was near max as well, no pressure signs.


All shots were taken at 100yds off a front rest only, temp about 5C very little wind.

[Digger1]

Sweet!!!

[58thecat]

Hard to beat that, nothing like going out to the range and having complete frustration, in your case you got a great starting point.

[densa44]

You are a very good shot to start with. That is a big help.

Now you can get to the finer points and these guys know it all.

BTW I'd be very careful of those over pressure signs, you don't want to stick a case.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Well I’m an idiot and totally forgot the chronograph at home in Red Deer, my range is CDTSA so I couldn’t track that lol.

I got some really good groups in both rifles, even though I only did 3 round groups. I figured I could save some money by shooting 3’s, seeing what’s close, and then working into 5’s.

Here are my best groups for the day. One was only a 2 shot group (I only loaded 2 at my start load)

sniped nice group photos

All shots were taken at 100yds off a front rest only, temp about 5C very little wind.

IMHO,
Small 3 shot groups are very satisfying and fun,
but individually indicate little useful load development information, especially when lacking a full series of chrony and incremental loading data.
Re-loaders, (who just want to duplicate factory performance) will say ‘job done’.
Hand-loaders, (striving for custom tuned ammunition) will say ‘it’s a good start’.

What you have proved is that you, and your rifle, and re-loads, are capable of producing accuracy suitable for performing further load development.
I submit you could have stopped after the second group

IMHE, Please allow me to make the following hopefully helpful suggestions.
Your target notes are incomplete and lack, specific bullet ID, CBTO loaded length, case prep, time & date fired, density altitude weather data, elevation or range ID.
If you keep a complete range notebook or other record, all you need on the target is the date and target ID.
A photo of your range log would be helpful, as the missing data could be there.
What would be even better is a look at your loading and firing spreadsheet, or a list of the data fields you are recording.

Loading and shooting groups can be pleasurable practice but also time consuming and expensive, and many barrels are more life limited than others.
IMHO, We want to gather the maximum amount of information with every shot we make.

I suggest you Google “Audette ladder test”.

When Creighton Audette developed his ladder test, chrono gauges were crude, marginally accurate, did not have modern electronic clocks or optical sensors, and were not in general use by hand-loaders. With the use of an inexpensive Chrony we can now easily gather information Audette needed to guestimate by inferring proxy results.

IMHE, An Audette ladder shot over a chrony will produce more worthwhile information in ~15 shots than can be discovered shooting ~75 shots in groups.

I begin my load development with an Audette ladder (@300-400 yds, & powder charge increments of .5% (NOT .5gr) and bullet seated at or very near the lands),
then graph the velocity and POI results using an electronic spreadsheet.
This usually reveals nodes worth further development, as well as velocity gain / powder increase, and maximum powder charge for the individual firearm.
The variability of target POI clearly shows the result of barrel harmonics which can similarly produce nodes of precision.
Once nodes are identified, I develop these further using groups @100, and smaller powder increments.

IMHO, Testing is only as good as the information it gathers.
Complete records are essential

Good Luck, YMMV.

[DiabeticKripple]

So, going forward

One thing I noticed with the 7mm cartridge, is Hodgdon lists a completely different data set than the Barnes No.4 book.

The Barnes book has H1000 listed at 62.0gr minimum and 68.0gr maximum, where as the Hodgdon website lists 67.2gr minimum and 73.8gr maximum. That’s a 5gr difference. I know that each test will use a different rifle, and components.

For the IMR 4831, Barnes has 54.0-60.0gr and Hodgdon has 60.4-65.0gr.

Considering I never saw any pressure signs with the Barnes data, should I now retry with the Hodgdon data?

[PeterLester]

Are you saying that the vernier calipers will read more precisely than the digital calipers?

[Digger1]

I would work up into the Hodgedon if you need the speed. Find your nice spot with enough power for hunting without burning out your barrel, is my method. I can add 200 fps, get into the next harmonic accuracy node, and gain an inch or 2 in trajectory while cooking my barrel, but what’s the point? FWIW H4831 is way more temp stable than IMR4831. Remember they have different burn rates. I’m loving the H4831SC short cut for better metering, using it in the 6.5x55 now. Enjoy

[Xiph0id]

Love this thread guys.

I have been thinking about getting into loading and this thread is super helpful.

I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoy this thread.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by Xiph0id

Love this thread guys.

I have been thinking about getting into loading and this thread is super helpful.

I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoy this thread.

That’s why I’m keeping it going. Getting my questions answered, which might help someone else down the road.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by Digger1

I would work up into the Hodgedon if you need the speed. Find your nice spot with enough power for hunting without burning out your barrel, is my method. I can add 200 fps, get into the next harmonic accuracy node, and gain an inch or 2 in trajectory while cooking my barrel, but what’s the point? FWIW H4831 is way more temp stable than IMR4831. Remember they have different burn rates. I’m loving the H4831SC short cut for better metering, using it in the 6.5x55 now. Enjoy

I would like the speed as it is a hunting load with a mono metal that requires at least 2000fps to expand.

I’ll make sure I bring my chrony next time. I put it on top of my gun cases so I don’t forget lol.

[PeterLester]

Certainly now is a good time too...... with big liquidation sell-off at Wholesale Sports up to 40% off. But the reloading supplies are going for about 15% off.

BTW - best to avoid reloading low quality brass, especially shells that have the primer pockets swaged.... Here are some good brass sources:
Laputa (perhaps the best) from Alberta Tactical and one or two other stores outside the big cities
Norma (same as above)
Hornady
Lake City - sometimes sold at Bass Pro Shops (typically used once but examine for possible swaged primer pockets)

[Capt. awesome]

Ive been following this thread since the beginning and I see a lot of useful info here for sure. I plan on reloading for my X-Bolt 7MM soon enough and I just want to say thanks for all the info you have here.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by PeterLester

snip
BTW - best to avoid reloading low quality brass, especially shells that have the primer pockets swaged.... Here are some good brass sources:
Laputa (perhaps the best) from Alberta Tactical and one or two other stores outside the big cities
Norma (same as above)
Hornady
Lake City - sometimes sold at Bass Pro Shops (typically used once but examine for possible swaged primer pockets)

IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with properly swaged primer pockets.
IMHO, they are certainly preferable to those that have been reamed, or especially a rocket chamfer tool used to bevel the edge of the pocket, to remove a crimp.

Most military brass has crimped primers to prevent possible FTEject in semi & especially full auto, (many are also sealed).
Many current NT (non-toxic) pistol and 223Rem/5.56x45 loads (most using small primers) and some common (large primer) rifle loads (Hornady and others) are also frequently crimped.

I use RCBS swage tools in a universal loading press, and Dillon sells a bench mounted tool that is recommended by users.

When milsurp 30-06 brass was more common, many loaders had the RCBS tooling, and it could often be found inexpensively at gun-shows

With the increased use of NT loadings, I suspect these swaging tools will again become a regular part of most loader's tool collection.

Crimped primers are now so common in 223R, that I no longer even inspect these pockets as it is faster and easier to just swage all newtome brass.

Swaging pockets only needs to be done once, and may slightly work harden the case head, (which is usually an improvement).

I would not place Hornady brass in the same class as Lapua, Norma or LC.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[DiabeticKripple]

Well I did some 7mm tonight and I’m still having neck tension issues. I had 15/50 rounds that were loose.

Before I did the primers and powder, I tried to seat the bullets by hand and I couldn’t in any of the cases, but after seating the bullet, there is some play with it.

I also noticed some copper shavings at the case mouth, and I am chamfering each time.

[PeterLester]

My mistake....... stating swaged when I should have stated crimped........

[DiabeticKripple]

Loaded some .223 and .308 today.

I FINALLY figured out how to use the Lee neck dies properly lol. I got good neck tension on all my loads (70) tonight. I adjusted the die down a bit further so I have a better feel of the collet closing. I then held firm pressure on the press for 3 seconds, lowered the ram, spun the case 1/8 of a turn, then sized again.

I did however run into a new issue with the .223 bullets. I chose the 50gr Varmint Grenade to work a load up for the gophers out at the cabin. I have a 1 in 8 twist barrel so I should stabilize these no problem.

The issue I ran into is since these bullets are long for their weight, I had a compressed load again. The compression combined with the hollow cavity in the front caused the jacket to get push in a bit by the sizing die. You can tell that as I go up in powder weight, the crease gets bigger as more compression is put onto the jacket. It doesn’t look too bad, but I don’t think I will get consistent results.

I got everything loaded up into my truck, including the chronograph this time! I’ll be hitting the range Monday morning at 9.

[PeterLester]

When I first started reloading it was about 6 to 12 at a time..... didn't want to using a bullet puller on 50 rounds to get back on the right track.

In my case, with a 1 to 8 barrel twist on the 223, I use mostly 68 grain bullets. But with Varget powder the FMJ's showed sign of deforming...... so I switched to H335......and no more powder compression nor bullet jacket deformation. For 223 the powder grain weight is more critical...... less of an issue for 308.

[DiabeticKripple]

I used Varget in the 223’s.

I might try Benchmark. Nosler has that listed on their data and it’s a fast load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PeterLester]

Ever tried H322? Apparently it is highly recommended for 223 reloading....Problem is I can't seem to find it anywhere. Also most powders are affected by ambient temperature conditions.....one more problem to deal with as the seasons and/or daily weather changes.

[32-40win]

Actually, if I were going to buy or try a different .223 powder, I'd look for something in the Accurate/Ramshot powder lines, they are achieving the velocities with 50-55gr bullets with very few compressed loads, whereas the Nosler data in comparison, shows pretty much all compressed loads. IE; AA2200 is 33-3400 @ 23-24gr w/50-52gr, depending on the bullet, X-terminator is 33-3400 @ 24.5 depending on the bullet, AA2230 is about the same, AA2460 is in the 25-26gr range, TAC is in the 25gr range.

Take a look at their data, have a look at Alliant and Vihtavouri and Norma as well, using a bit less powder to achieve the same end, is always a good thing. I have nothing against compressed loads, but, if they can be done without, that is usually a better way to do things..

[Digger1]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Loaded some .223 and .308 today.

I FINALLY figured out how to use the Lee neck dies properly lol. I got good neck tension on all my loads (70) tonight. I adjusted the die down a bit further so I have a better feel of the collet closing. I then held firm pressure on the press for 3 seconds, lowered the ram, spun the case 1/8 of a turn, then sized again.

I did however run into a new issue with the .223 bullets. I chose the 50gr Varmint Grenade to work a load up for the gophers out at the cabin. I have a 1 in 8 twist barrel so I should stabilize these no problem.

The issue I ran into is since these bullets are long for their weight, I had a compressed load again. The compression combined with the hollow cavity in the front caused the jacket to get push in a bit by the sizing die. You can tell that as I go up in powder weight, the crease gets bigger as more compression is put onto the jacket. It doesn’t look too bad, but I don’t think I will get consistent results.

I got everything loaded up into my truck, including the chronograph this time! I’ll be hitting the range Monday morning at 9.

Haha. When I started with the Lee collet neck sizer, I beat the crap out of my brass trying to get a tighter neck. Then I read you’re supposed to take the center mandrel out, spin it in the drill press and polish off half a thousandth with 400 sandpaper and oil. Worked superbly and all is well now.

[kman35ca]

Originally Posted by Xiph0id

Love this thread guys.

I have been thinking about getting into loading and this thread is super helpful.

I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoy this thread.

Yup, same here. Just bought dies and have everything needed. Just been doing lots of reading, and watching vids on reloading before I start.
Thanks for the info in this thread everyone. Extremely helpful.

[Digger1]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

I would like the speed as it is a hunting load with a mono metal that requires at least 2000fps to expand.

I’ll make sure I bring my chrony next time. I put it on top of my gun cases so I don’t forget lol.

Also, higher power stretches brass more. For example, I had my Mauser 98 in 6.5x55 running 140grainers over 2900 fps, stretching brass 3 or 4 thou per firing. Slowed her down to 2710 fps, enough zip for an elk, making .2 to .4 MOA, and stretching brass under 1 thou per firing. Also reloaded factory Nosler Trophy brass is impressing the dickens outa me! 12 times fired now, looking and working like new. I guess it’s made by Norma.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by Digger1

Also, higher power stretches brass more. For example, I had my Mauser 98 in 6.5x55 running 140grainers over 2900 fps, stretching brass 3 or 4 thou per firing. Slowed her down to 2710 fps, enough zip for an elk, making .2 to .4 MOA, and stretching brass under 1 thou per firing. Also reloaded factory Nosler Trophy brass is impressing the dickens outa me! 12 times fired now, looking and working like new. I guess it’s made by Norma.

I’m not too worried about brass stretch. I won’t be shooting a ton of these loads. Plus I have well over 250 cases. I’m just working this load up for the hunting season, I’ll find a plinking load at a lower node.

I didn’t go to the range today. I was windy all night and this morning. Looks like I’ll just have to wait a few weeks.

I bought some 50gr vmax last night so I’ll get some of those ready for the range as well.

[PeterLester]

Originally Posted by lyallpeder

I put each load into its own zip lock bag with a square of paper saying the data. I find thats the easiest way to keep them straight

For what its worth..... I use a different color sharpie swipe across the bottom of each reprimed shell to keep track of the grain load levels:
green for the lowest load
brown for the 2nd lowest (brown is my substitute for yellow which does not show well)
red for the higher load and
black for the highest powder load
I then arrange in a similar sequence them in a plastic 100 bullet container
Then I do the ladder shooting with multiple targets.

Anyone else marking their bullet powder loading in a similar way?

[qwert]

Originally Posted by PeterLester

snip
Then I do the ladder shooting with multiple targets.

How do you manage to do a ladder test with multiple targets?
Do you mean duplicate ladder tests?

I suspect we have a terminology problem.

IMHO, correct terminology is vital for clear communication and understanding.

some links from a Google search on "ladder test"
https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2014/0...d-development/

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/0...adder-testing/

http://www.gunsandtactics.com/perfor...he-ladder-test

Good Luck, YMMV.