Whats your max range?

[Lethalconnection]

Just wondering what everyones max range is when shootin at an animal? Ive practiced and gotten pretty good at 50yds and im thinkin of steppin it up to 60yds.

Quick question regarding me stepping it up to 60yds. Im wondering if that would be and ethical shot at 60yds, im pulling 62lbs right now and im not sure if that will be sufficient enough to make a good ethical shot on an animal, i would imagine it would be on deer but im thinkin moose, with their thick fur,hide,bones, and muscle. For that far of a shot would it be a safer bet to step it up to 70lbs, or should my pull weight be enough?

[nekred]

When it comes to arrow penetration if you can get a pass through at 30 you will get a pass through at 60, very little momentum bleeds off.

Max yardage is not a question of aht the arrow will do if it connects in the right spot but what the archer and the animal will do.

300 fps takes 1 second to go 100 yards. with bleedoff of speed you can use an average speed of 240 fps means it takes about 1 second to go 80 yards.

What can the animal do within 3/4 of a second.

I have seen very few archers that can be consistent enough to be confidant of hitting an animal at 60 yards.

I like comparing archery to rifle shooting. A bow is 10x slower than a rifle. how many people would think of shooting a deer or moose at 600 yards.

I will not make the judgement of ethics here as that is a personal thing. looking at the facts one must be a heck of a shot if they feel comfortable doing this. And if they do then I would encorage them to get into competitive archery because they would cleanup.

I have not brought other factors into it....

Hunting situation you are shooting cold, using broadheads, hunting sights and gear (no long stabiliser), you have toknow the range perfectly, wind, temperature, direction and type of light all have a factor.

If you want to shoot long distance with a bow, use a rifle and stick to the rifle season. Archery huntng is a game of how close you can get, not how far away you can fling an arrow to try to connect!

Instead of stretching shooting range, impoveour hunting ability to get closer!.....

Do what you want, But the measure of how good of bowhunter you are is if you ever had to back up to shoot an animal! because arrow would not clear bow if you did not!....

[Rusty P. Bucket]

When I was at the height of my game the target shooters would laugh at me when I stepped up to shoot the 90m. They had a wind flag on top of one of the butts and I found that if I aimed at it with my 60 yd. pin at it I could usually belly flop an arrow into the yellow...but the yellow is about the size of a basketball at that range.

For game accuracy I was OK out to 50~60m but I would never shoot animals at that range for fear of them jumping the string and making a marginal hit.

I kept the tricky shots out of my hunting out of respect for the game, but when it came to targets, any range was acceptable.

I lost a lot of arrows.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Lethalconnection

Just wondering what everyones max range is when shootin at an animal? Ive practiced and gotten pretty good at 50yds and im thinkin of steppin it up to 60yds.

?

Wow, after reading this I was feeling pretty good about my shooting ability... until I realized this is in the ARCHERY section!!!!! DAMN!

[Donny Bear]

40 yards I can or could shoot well beyond the range. The issue for me is that no bow is fast enough to travel beyond that distance without one step or string jump having a very negative outcome. When I was much younger I made a super kill on a mule doe at 52 yrds then tried a moose at about the same I don't think it reacted to the noise but one moose step and a lot of suffering for the animal and hands and knees tracking for the shooter not cool not cool at all but thats just me if you are confident then thats 100% the call of the man behind the string and lots of success for sure.

[catnthehat]

I never measure my targets while stump shooting, and refuse to try and figure out distance, otherwise I start shooing point of aim instead of instinctivly pre gap.
however, when I draw on an animal you can bet that in my mind i have already decided whether or not Zi can kill it, and subconciously have already made adjustments for distance , etc. from mny position i am in at the time.
cat

[JohninAB]

I have successful harvested 2 moose at distances between 60 and 65 yards. But that was back in the day when I used to shoot everyday and knew my bow and arrow like the back of my hand. I would never now or even back then try a shot of that distance on a deer as they are so finicky that the chance for wounding is too great. Moose on the other hand I find much much less finicky. Today I would not try 60 yards but 40 is no problem and to behonest, most all my shots on animals have been 40 yards or less except for the two moose mentioned earlier.

As for the poundage of your bow, the speed and weight of your arrow are more critical. Speed plus weight gives you the kinetic energy. With most new bows and carbon arrows, 60lbs is fine. My bow is set at 64 lbs and I get 278 fps thru the chrono with carbons. There is a formula for determine kinetic energy but it escapes me now. Think, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, the old standard for kinetic energy for elk and moose was right around the 60 ft/lbs mark. My first bow set at 70 lbs shot the alum arrow a blazing 206 fps but I did harvest an elk my first year with it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I have successful harvested 2 moose at distances between 60 and 65 yards. But that was back in the day when I used to shoot everyday and knew my bow and arrow like the back of my hand. I would never now or even back then try a shot of that distance on a deer as they are so finicky that the chance for wounding is too great. Moose on the other hand I find much much less finicky. Today I would not try 60 yards but 40 is no problem and to behonest, most all my shots on animals have been 40 yards or less except for the two moose mentioned earlier.

As for the poundage of your bow, the speed and weight of your arrow are more critical. Speed plus weight gives you the kinetic energy. With most new bows and carbon arrows, 60lbs is fine. My bow is set at 64 lbs and I get 278 fps thru the chrono with carbons. There is a formula for determine kinetic energy but it escapes me now. Think, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, the old standard for kinetic energy for elk and moose was right around the 60 ft/lbs mark. My first bow set at 70 lbs shot the alum arrow a blazing 206 fps but I did harvest an elk my first year with it.

My flatbow won't break 200FPS,but with a propely spined, heavy for weight arrow with a good broadhead, it will do fine.
A friend shot a moose with his a while back, 55# Bear kodiak hunter with a bear razor head. Distance was about 35 paces....
Cat

[BigRackLover]

Last season I would not shoot over 45 yards. I was hunting elk, moose and deer. WT deer I usually like to bring in to 25 yards or less cause they are so jumpy.

[JohninAB]

cat, I was referencing carbon arrows at those speeds. The heavy weight arrows like you use will pack considerable KE at the slower speeds, but then again, I am not telling you anything new there.

[muzzy]

I took an antelope at 84 yds once lucky?? yup but i was shooting every day and practicing at long ranges Its all about practice and confidence really arrow speed isn't that big an issue If you know the drop and have your pins set up its more a matter of practice. muscle tone and mind control. I read an article by Chick adams a few years back about arrow energy loss at long range and it was minimal, something like 7% loss at 60 yds
Animals at long range are way more unlikely to jump a string than at closer ranges because they can hear the bow go off ( speed of sound is lot faster than any arrow)
Personally though I like now to get within 30 yds

Gord

[TreeGuy]

Maverick

I wouldn't really want to shoot much over 30 in an actual hunting situation. As Nekred mentioned, the factors in the field are a whole lot different than they are shooting at targets.

For instance, I missed out on getting a shot off on a nice 4X4 WT this fall at 20 yards. I got the draw on him and everything. Perfect! Why didn't I shoot you ask? Well, it was about -19 that morning and I was bundled up nice and warm. When I tried to line my peep up with my pin, the extra clothing wouldn't let me move my head far enough over. Lesson learned.

I guess my point is that when you combine a real-life setting with a real-life critter you get real life nerves and that is something really hard to practice for. Only a ton of experience will lengthen how far you can ethically shoot. Besides, being close is half the fun. Good luck!

Tree

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

cat, I was referencing carbon arrows at those speeds. The heavy weight arrows like you use will pack considerable KE at the slower speeds, but then again, I am not telling you anything new there.

Yup, same old story - light projectile going fast, or a heavy one going slower.
People spend their whole lives debating which is better, but I think it is a question of balance of the equipment as a whole....
Cat

[PoppaW]

I would say practice at 60 for sure. Then don't shoot deer at that range. I used to shoot out to 60, was good to 50 but only hunted to 35-40. Always wanted to be closer. I remember shooting 60 made the 40 yard seem so easy. The new bows these days sure are fast compared to my old clunker. I had to shoot one bow at 80# to get 280 fps with carbon, using an overdraw! Yeah it was useless, and near impossible to shoot.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by PoppaW

I would say practice at 60 for sure. Then don't shoot deer at that range. I used to shoot out to 60, was good to 50 but only hunted to 35-40. Always wanted to be closer. I remember shooting 60 made the 40 yard seem so easy. The new bows these days sure are fast compared to my old clunker. I had to shoot one bow at 80# to get 280 fps with carbon, using an overdraw! Yeah it was useless, and near impossible to shoot.

I totally agree!
if you practice at the longer ranges, the shorter ones seem easy in the field.
One test that really opened our eyes in the mid eighties was done by myself and a friend.
he was a dealer up here for york as well as other bows, and had one of those fancy shoot -through the riser jobs that was REAL fast.
One day at the range, we decided to see just how good a hast bow was.
he was drawoing about 78-80lbs, with a light arrow.
I went down range and stood behiind the butts about 7 over from where he was aiming.
I couldn't see him, so could only move when Ii heard the bow.
On his release I started walking .
I got about FIVE FEET before the arrow hit the butt!!

If my inferior ears can hear a bow at that range , think about what how far a white tail can get!!

Cat

[nekred]

KE is not a good measure for archery as terminal ballistics between a bullet and an arrow are completely different.

In rifles the killing blow comes from an energy transfer. Thuse the reason for expanding bullets to transfer the energy.

Some people talk about retained kinetic energy. This is an oxymoron. Kinetic energy by its very definition cannot be retained it can only be transferred into another form of energy which may be potential energy.

KE is mass x velocity x velocity divided by 2. velocity has more effect than mass.

With arrows we have found that mass is very important for penetration. Mass without speed does not work but neither does speed without mass.

IF KE was the end all then a 17hmr has more killing power than any arrow moving 300 fps...

17hmr = 2500 fps 30 grains = 18.8 million units of KE
Arrow = 300fps 400 grain arrow = 18 million units of KE

According to KE we should not be using an arrow on anything bigger than a gopher. Practicality proves that the use of KE is not valid for archery.

Let us try momentum which is the integral of KE! and is linear. This is the term people misname as "retained kinetic energy" Momentum can be conserved.

Momentum = Mass times velocity

There is yet one other term again which is important: Inertia which is from newton's law that objects in motion stay in motion and objets that are not in motion tend to remain motionless.

Looking at an arrow the more we reduce the KE transfer (by reducing friction) at the termination in an animal the more penetration we get.

Sharp broadheads, cut on contact broadheads, Thinner shaft arrows etc all add to penetration.

This mistake comes from archery marketing people with no grasp of ballistics trying to explain terms to people who have used a rifle and a small grasp of ballistics to explain "killing power".

In archery it all comes down to penetration. If your arrow will sink into a target butt a certain distance, you can expect it to sink into an animal as well with sharp broadheads.

In general heavy arrows will penetrate better at long ranges because they retain momentum better. Mass does not change during flight but speed does.

If the momentum is mostly a result of speed it will lose it rapidly, but have a flatter trajectory and will be good for short ranges up to 50 yards.

If momentum is from mass then it will have more of an arc in the trajectory but will be good for longer ranges.

The ideal balance comes down to the charactaristics of the bow. Some bows are most efficient with light arrows, some with heavy.

Compund bow will like light arrows (5-8 grains per lb of draw weight) because of the mechanical advantage system which is a double pulley system.

Longbows like heavy arrows because their speed is most affected by limb tip motion is greater. (8-12 grains per lb of draw weight)

OK that is probably enough of a read.

[huntinggr81]

I practice out to 70 yards. Depending on weather, terrain conditions, and the mood of the animal I am hunting I would take a 50 yard shot - no farther. I have taken 16 big game animals with my bow & my longest shot to date was a bull moose at 42 yards. My current setup is 65# pull with 30" draw 340 Easton Axis Full Metal Jackets at 11.1 gpi with 100 gr Shuttle T's. PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE!

[Lethalconnection]

Thanks for all the info guys, by what im gettin, practice one targets out to 60yds but keep the hunting shots in close and as PoppaW said, the better iam at 60yds ill be that much better at 40yds.

[nekred]

Practice and target archery is all about challenging one self by seeing how far away you can be from target and hit it.

Bowhunting is about how close can you get and not miss!...

[Donny Bear]

Originally Posted by nekred

Practice and target archery is all about challenging one self by seeing how far away you can be from target and hit it.

Bowhunting is about how close can you get and not miss!...

Short sweet and well said

[Cowtown guy]

I practice at 60 regularly and if the wind isn't too bad I step up to 70 yards. I will probably try 80 yards this spring. I can routinely put 3 arrows with broadheads inside a 5 inch circle at 60 yards. That being said I have never taken a shot over 42 yards. The key for me is the long range practice. The 40 yard target looks HUGE after doing a string of 60 or 70 yard shots. It has helped my accuracy and confidence immensely.

[Albertabowhunter]

Depends on the animal for sure. 35 yards is my max for deer. Maybe push 40 if its a clear shot. For moose or elk, wouldnt hesitate to shoot out to 50. But only again with nothing in between. When I go for Caribou, I want to be able to shoot to 50.

The other thing on have to consider is broadheads. I'm not sure what my mechanicals will do out at 50 on a moose. I'm trying fixed blades for bear this year...just to see how they fly compare to mechanicals

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by Albertabowhunter

Depends on the animal for sure. 35 yards is my max for deer. Maybe push 40 if its a clear shot. For moose or elk, wouldnt hesitate to shoot out to 50. But only again with nothing in between. When I go for Caribou, I want to be able to shoot to 50.

The other thing on have to consider is broadheads. I'm not sure what my mechanicals will do out at 50 on a moose. I'm trying fixed blades for bear this year...just to see how they fly compare to mechanicals

I am shooting the 100 grain Snypers. They open on a cam system instead of using the kinetic energy to push the blades back and out. The wound channel is extreme! I have talked with a few guys at the Calgary Archery Center that use them for moose, bear and elk with no problems.

[Lethalconnection]

Yeah ive heard a few horror storys about the mechanicals not opening all the way or not at all, thats why i got fixed, im shootin 100grn WASP Hornet SST's

[Islander]

Ive been practicing out to about 60 yrds, but for deer, 40 yrds would be max, and for bear, probably 30. I'm shooting 100 grn Spitfires now, but may switch to either Montecs or Shuttle-T's for bear season, just for the reliability assurance.

[russ]

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

I am shooting the 100 grain Snypers. They open on a cam system instead of using the kinetic energy to push the blades back and out. The wound channel is extreme! I have talked with a few guys at the Calgary Archery Center that use them for moose, bear and elk with no problems.

That's because they open a lot easier than most mech's. I wouldn't hesitate to use them either, I've had good luck with them.

[el sparko]

one question lethal; are you mental? why would you even consider such a thing?
it's called bow HUNTING this means you have to hunt like an archer, get the rifle thinking long range crap out of your head and learn how to hunt.
20-40 yards that's it, no more!!! treat your quarry with respect and learn how to get close. i took the time to learn this disipline and the record goes like this; elk#1 6x6 bull, 30 yards satilite razor head ran about 50 yards. elk#2, 4x3 bull, 15 yards 100 grain t-head, ran about 50 yards; elk#3, cow, 20 yards, t-head,ran 30 yards, elk#4, calf, 15 yards, ran 2 steps and dropped, elk#5, calf,10 yards, t-head, ran 100 yards, i nearly lost it; elk#6 5x5 bull, 18 yards 308. remington, died instantly, elk#7 cow, 100 grain gaiter, ran 20 feet, elk#8 cow 10 yards, cabela's house brand 100 grain expandable, ran 20 yards; elk#9 5x5 bull 30 yards, 100 grain cabela's ran 30 yards; elk#10 5x5 20 yards,308., bang, plop...i shoot an old pse gamesport set at 50 lbs. this bow is so slow i need a 10 yard and a twenty yard pin. i'm fat, i'm old i smoke, i never hunt in a stand, and i never use cover scent. but i still get close.
what does it take to do this? a lot of practice and even more nerve .

[Albertabowhunter]

Originally Posted by Lethalconnection

Yeah ive heard a few horror storys about the mechanicals not opening all the way or not at all, thats why i got fixed, im shootin 100grn WASP Hornet SST's

Dont get me wrong, I swear by NAP Spitfires, never had one fail. I jsut want to try something different, just to see.

[gunslinger]

yup i am in the same group here guys, i go out and start at the 60 yard marker and after 10 arrows i walk up 10 yards and so on, until the 20 marker, feel really confident at 60 yards, now when i practice at 70 becasue i dont have a pin for 70 i just seem to be guessing, so i know that my max is 60 ayrds.

[CNP]

I would say......about 350 yards.

Aiming at the sky at a 45 degree angle I would expect to hit ................somewhere in the general vicinity of where I was aiming. Works great on a flat out deer using the swing through method

I practice at 60 but the furthest shot I have taken is 34. I'm rarely in a situation where I can shoot more than 25 yards because of the things that grow out of the ground.