Quiver torque?

[Mike_W]

I have a Athens accomplice I am trying to broadhead tune and not having luck. At 20 yards the closest I can get my broadheads is 2" left of field point poi. I have tried moving my rest and my field points move as well.
Now if I put on my tightspot quiver and my broadheads hit even more left 4" or so front my field points.

This is a hunting bow and I might not always have a chance to remove my quiver so I am torn as to what to do here.
Basically my thoughts are to sight in with my broadhead with quiver on and never remove it.

Also I have seen these things that offset your stabilizer to counteract the balance of your quiver anyone ever try open.

Thank for any and all suggestions or tips.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Buy a Prime. Lol jks.


Weird that we are both shooting the same quiver and my set up doesnt matter either way. Very odd.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Watch your sight bubble...also focus on your anchor and your grip. 4 inches at 20 yards is too much....something is going on.

Or look into a Stokerized SS1 stabilizer...it might help





LC

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

you Can't Cant

lol
Neil

More same...
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=227576

[Mike_W]

Well I might have figured out part of my issue that the quiver was amplifying.
I was shooting a 28.5" Eason Axis 340 with a 29" draw @70.5 lbs.
I went down to swamp donkey and shot my bow through some paper with a right tear an adjustment made this year better but not perfect so we started thinking it was a spine issue luckly he has about 200 arrows there, after we determined that with my set up my arrow could be shortened about 1.75" we started throwing other arrows through all with a right rear finally 5th arrow in bam money perfect bullethole. Ok what arrow was that? Easton 340 power flight cut to 26.75".
Well as Martin explained sometimes it's not as easy as just picking a spine but matching an arrow to a bow to find the perfect arrow for your bow.
We attempted to cut my 340 axis to the same length and still had a right tear.
So for $80 a dozen I walked out of there with a dozen power flights to try.
Little disappointed as I liked the axis but we will see how there power flights shoot and go from there.
If anyone would like to purchase a dozen axis 340's stripped of vanes PM me..... $90

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Well I might have figured out part of my issue that the quiver was amplifying.
I was shooting a 28.5" Eason Axis 340 with a 29" draw @70.5 lbs.
I went down to swamp donkey and shot my bow through some paper with a right tear an adjustment made this year better but not perfect so we started thinking it was a spine issue luckly he has about 200 arrows there, after we determined that with my set up my arrow could be shortened about 1.75" we started throwing other arrows through all with a right rear finally 5th arrow in bam money perfect bullethole. Ok what arrow was that? Easton 340 power flight cut to 26.75".
Well as Martin explained sometimes it's not as easy as just picking a spine but matching an arrow to a bow to find the perfect arrow for your bow.
We attempted to cut my 340 axis to the same length and still had a right tear.
So for $80 a dozen I walked out of there with a dozen power flights to try.
Little disappointed as I liked the axis but we will see how there power flights shoot and go from there.
If anyone would like to purchase a dozen axis 340's stripped of vanes PM me..... $90

Mike ....Hold off on selling those ...somethings weird there ...the right tear for RH release is a sign of too Stiff of a spine...

Now the .340 is on the weak side of the spine scale for a 70.5 bow...

Cutting the .340 to 26.75 if anything simply stiffened the spine considerably even more...?????

First how did you get that short of an arrow?...what rest ..how far back from riser?

Aside from that a .340 @ 28.5 @70.5 lbs should read a possible weak tear [left] if anything...the right tear would indicate other issues than spine...

#1 Did you try move the rest left?
#2 Did you check for cleance issues...[the most likely scenio]
#3 Did you try a .400 or .300 to test

Something just not right there Mike...I believe you can make the Axis work...

Neil

[Mike_W]

I have a QAD HDX on this bow, the shaft length I measure from cut to cut. We tried a 400 spine and it too tore right. The front edge of the shaft is about 3/4 to 1 inch in front of the HDX. The HDX is tight to the riser.
Can't see any clearance issues being the issue.
Ill probably hate myself for all the crap I am trying but what the heck. I ordered a guide rod off of a guy on Archery Talk called a Anti torque rod that guys are using and loving ...ever seen them?
I am not in a hurry to throw all this stuff on my set up but it will be experimental.

We didn't move the rest any after he did an adjustment when I was there. I asked if we should move the rest any and he said as it was my arrow is coming out of my bow perfect. I might play around.
I did ask that that tear should mean a stiff spine reaction but he said sometimes it does the opposite...as the case when we shot a 400 spine???

On a side note Cabela's has Gold Tip Pro hunters on for $89 so I ordered two dozen lol. I will shoot these power flights and the Axis if the power flights are shooting great I will play with them if the axis are good maybe I will stick with them. My dad has power flights so it will be easy to find a home for them.
I really hate messing with my bow so much but once she is dialed in I will have this bow for a long time and probably a permanent back up to whatever the flavor of the month is haha.

Alberta really needs a Athens dealer these bows are top notch bows at a great price!!

EDIT***
Just looked on the Gold Tip website and what I was describing as a "right tear" is labeled on there website as a "Left tear"
http://goldtip.com/arrowperformance.aspx?coid=15
Which would suggest a weak spine

[Alberta Bigbore]

Holaaay molay arrows!! Im gonna have to start charging for my precision helical fletch jobs.... lol......

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

EDIT***
Just looked on the Gold Tip website and what I was describing as a "right tear" is labeled on there website as a "Left tear"
http://goldtip.com/arrowperformance.aspx?coid=15
Which would suggest a weak spine

That explains lots than...a right tear would show nock end furthest right on tear the vanes ripping right ...

Nock/Vanes ripping left of field point POI is indeed weak spin...

So what you did was stiffen spine as mentioned when you shortened arrows to 26.75


Telling you your bow wants the .300's at normal length...I hate seeing arrows shorter than 28" on any draw over 28" ..makes for hard BH tuning with many...


Neil

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

Holaaay molay arrows!! Im gonna have to start charging for my precision helical fletch jobs.... lol......

Provided the fletches actually stick to the shaft?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Provided the fletches actually stick to the shaft?

...Lol

[Alberta Bigbore]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Provided the fletches actually stick to the shaft?

Hey intold you to wait till i got the Goat Tough. Not my fault your bow is so accurate yoyr shooting off vanes lol


Btw everyone... DO NOT USE BOHNING PLATNIUM FOR FLETCHING BLAZERS.......GARBAGE!!!!!

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

Hey intold you to wait till i got the Goat Tough. Not my fault your bow is so accurate yoyr shooting off vanes lol


Btw everyone... DO NOT USE BOHNING PLATNIUM FOR FLETCHING BLAZERS.......GARBAGE!!!!!

Yeah no glue will help with this


Or this

[Mike_W]

This is the ATR (Anti Torque Rod) I bought. See how the rod is bent so when you draw it reduces the torque on the cables.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Yeah no glue will help with this


Or this

Ooooh please. I sliced those vanes of yours off with the Hybrida lol jks

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

This is the ATR (Anti Torque Rod) I bought. See how the rod is bent so when you draw it reduces the torque on the cables.

Should have bought a Bowtech....they have a bunch of after market features built in....

.....including speed



LC

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Should have bought a Bowtech....they have a bunch of after market features built in....

.....including speed



LC

Gross a roller ewwww

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Gross a roller ewwww

Dont worry mikey one day your bow will get all growed up and have a roller toooo!

He he
Neil

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Gross a roller ewwww

LOL....you would rather have a bend in your rod?.....that you actually have to pay money for??

LC

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

LOL....you would rather have a bend in your rod?.....that you actually have to pay money for??

LC

Rather that than pay real money for a bowtech lol

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Telling you your bow wants the .300's at normal length...I hate seeing arrows shorter than 28" on any draw over 28" ..makes for hard BH tuning with many...


Neil

Why is that?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Rather that than pay real money for a bowtech lol

Now you clearly make no sense at all....you should get your head checked out

LC

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Now you clearly make no sense at all....you should get your head checked out

LC

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

I hate seeing arrows shorter than 28" on any draw over 28" ..makes for hard BH tuning with many...
Neil

Why is that?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Why is that?

In Short...lol..from my files

When an arrow is fired it bends because it is effectively being compressed. The arrow is momentarily trapped between the forward motion of the string and the static load of the arrow's tip. And the longer the shaft is, the more easily this compressive force can bend it. Imagine a brand new pencil. If you put each end of the pencil between your palms and began compressing the pencil by squeezing your palms together, this would be similar to the forces that cause an arrow to bend when shot.

If you had two pencils, one standard length and one that was 2 ft. long, you would get very different results when you tried the compress them. A short pencil is surprisingly stiff and resists bending this way. But the long pencil would bend easily under the compressive load between your palms.

So although the shaft material (wood & pencil lead) would be the same for each of your tests, the shorter pencil would exhibit more spine stiffness - it would act stiffer. The longer pencil would exhibit less spine stiffness - it would act more limber. This is similar to how arrow length affects dynamic arrow spine. The shorter an arrow shaft is, the more dynamic spine stiffness it will exhibit under acceleration. The longer the arrow shaft, the less dynamic spine stiffness it exhibits under acceleration.
So if you change your arrow length, you must consider how that affects your arrow spine requirements.

SPINE DEFLECTION MEASUREMENT

Sometimes an arrow's spine stiffness is expressed as a more technical measurement, called a spine deflection. According to the modern standards (ASTM F2031-05) an arrow's official spine deflection is measured by hanging a 1.94 lb. weight in the center of a 28" suspended section of the arrow shaft (not to be confused with the old AMO standard of 2 lb. and 26"). The actual distance the 1.94 lb. weight causes the shaft to sag down is the arrow's actual spine deflection. For example, if a 1.94 lb. weight causes the center of a 28" arrow to sag down 1/2 inch (.500"). Then the arrow's spine deflection would be .500". Stiffer arrows will, of course, sag less. More limber arrows will sag more. So the stiffer the arrow is, the LOWER its spine deflection measurement will be. The more limber an arrow is, the HIGHER its spine deflection measurement will be.

An arrow below that 28" stiffens quickly...point weight and lentgh will effect results also...

With modern bows pushing and exceeding that 300 FPS...it has just been an observation that the shorter stiffer arrows up to 28" were harder to paper tune and make broadheads fly..

My opinion is that too stiff of an arrow doesnt flex enough to recover stability in flight...so instead of arrow bending to recover stability it simply goes into a speed wobble...

Testing bows with too long arrows shooting and cutting 1" at a time always seem to peak at best at approx that 28"..whereas longer and shorter were noticible more unstable...

Not a rule but a trend pending on equipment and set up


Be thankful I didnt give ya the long version...lol

Neil

[normanrd]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

Hey intold you to wait till i got the Goat Tough. Not my fault your bow is so accurate yoyr shooting off vanes lol





Btw everyone... DO NOT USE BOHNING PLATNIUM FOR FLETCHING BLAZERS.......GARBAGE!!!!!

I've been fletching blazers with fletchtite platinum for as longer than I can remember and never had a problem with them. Not even when shooting out of a biscuit. Unless you got some bad glue I don't see why you would have a problem:

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by normanrd

I've been fletching blazers with fletchtite platinum for as longer than I can remember and never had a problem with them. Not even when shooting out of a biscuit. Unless you got some bad glue I don't see why you would have a problem:

We have too...but have also got bad tubes..I suspect the tubes frooze on route to Canada

Neil

[Mike_W]

Thanks for the reply Neil I understand what you are saying about the spine and whatnot I guess I will find out tonight.
I guess what would the difference be if a guy was shooting the same length arrow and a 27" draw? Or is I went to a 300 spined arrow two inches longer?

I will play about with arrows and length if need be to get the perfect deflection for my bow.

Thanks,
Mike

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

In Short...lol..from my files

When an arrow is fired it bends because it is effectively being compressed. The arrow is momentarily trapped between the forward motion of the string and the static load of the arrow's tip. And the longer the shaft is, the more easily this compressive force can bend it. Imagine a brand new pencil. If you put each end of the pencil between your palms and began compressing the pencil by squeezing your palms together, this would be similar to the forces that cause an arrow to bend when shot.

If you had two pencils, one standard length and one that was 2 ft. long, you would get very different results when you tried the compress them. A short pencil is surprisingly stiff and resists bending this way. But the long pencil would bend easily under the compressive load between your palms.

So although the shaft material (wood & pencil lead) would be the same for each of your tests, the shorter pencil would exhibit more spine stiffness - it would act stiffer. The longer pencil would exhibit less spine stiffness - it would act more limber. This is similar to how arrow length affects dynamic arrow spine. The shorter an arrow shaft is, the more dynamic spine stiffness it will exhibit under acceleration. The longer the arrow shaft, the less dynamic spine stiffness it exhibits under acceleration.
So if you change your arrow length, you must consider how that affects your arrow spine requirements.

SPINE DEFLECTION MEASUREMENT

Sometimes an arrow's spine stiffness is expressed as a more technical measurement, called a spine deflection. According to the modern standards (ASTM F2031-05) an arrow's official spine deflection is measured by hanging a 1.94 lb. weight in the center of a 28" suspended section of the arrow shaft (not to be confused with the old AMO standard of 2 lb. and 26"). The actual distance the 1.94 lb. weight causes the shaft to sag down is the arrow's actual spine deflection. For example, if a 1.94 lb. weight causes the center of a 28" arrow to sag down 1/2 inch (.500"). Then the arrow's spine deflection would be .500". Stiffer arrows will, of course, sag less. More limber arrows will sag more. So the stiffer the arrow is, the LOWER its spine deflection measurement will be. The more limber an arrow is, the HIGHER its spine deflection measurement will be.

An arrow below that 28" stiffens quickly...point weight and lentgh will effect results also...

With modern bows pushing and exceeding that 300 FPS...it has just been an observation that the shorter stiffer arrows up to 28" were harder to paper tune and make broadheads fly..

My opinion is that too stiff of an arrow doesnt flex enough to recover stability in flight...so instead of arrow bending to recover stability it simply goes into a speed wobble...

Testing bows with too long arrows shooting and cutting 1" at a time always seem to peak at best at approx that 28"..whereas longer and shorter were noticible more unstable...

Not a rule but a trend pending on equipment and set up


Be thankful I didnt give ya the long version...lol

Neil

[normanrd]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

We have too...but have also got bad tubes..I suspect the tubes frooze on route to Canada



Neil

I got a bad tube once too, but never knew that freezing it causes it to go bad, thanks for the tip! I do store mine in the fridge though, seems to make it last longer.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Originally Posted by normanrd

I got a bad tube once too, but never knew that freezing it causes it to go bad, thanks for the tip! I do store mine in the fridge though, seems to make it last longer.

I did MikeW and my arrows 3% helical... with platnium... and u can just pop alot of them off.. even if the surface is ruffed up. This goat tuff glue is ON THERE!. LOL but 3x the price