metis info

[Jimm]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Lol, the point I was making to Jamie is that I have no faith in the government doing the right thing for our fish and wildlife, they’re too busy trying to make up for the past. All we can do is work within the law to try and come up with our own management program.

As far as flinging insults goes, I respond in a manner the post was made. I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say all back and forth between you and I has been respectful.

You understand what I’m getting at? Awesome. Awareness is key. Our government isn’t in it for our wildlife so we have to be. 18 pages? I hope it goes on for another 18 more and we can get the message out to all outdoorsmen that if we don’t come up with a plan our government will give away all our opportunities.

Healthcare and education? Ya I’ve got two boys in school and a broken up knee that’s gonna take a couple more years of rehab so I’ve got things to say about that but it’s not within the forum rules.

It’s a forum, when you respond to Jamie, it’s a response to us all or it would be a PM

Wether insults are a response to another’s insults it’s still the same thing, you can’t control what others say only how you respond, that’s why the saying is “ I took offence to that” and not “ I gave offence to that” it’s the offended person choice to be that way not the other way around. I have taken no offence to anything you have said to me and I hope that is reciprocated

It’s not that I understand what your getting at at all, I wrote out the facts to help all the people understand without poking at anyone and simply laying out pure fact.

[Scouter]

I agree Jimm. We don’t need 18 more pages of rant. If you have anything different to add then feel free. This tactic of the sky is falling, world coming to an end is only fueling the fire and dividing us. Let’s all try to stick as close to facts as possible.

[Jimm]

Originally Posted by Scouter

I agree Jimm. We don’t need 18 more pages of rant. If you have anything different to add then feel free. This tactic of the sky is falling, world coming to an end is only fueling the fire and dividing us. Let’s all try to stick as close to facts as possible.

You can’t help yourself can you, you do your best to point out the positives but you can’t do it without taking a shot at someone, I’m not part of either side on this spat, I know you did not mean it that way but thanks for allowing me to add more info if I have it lol. Once you click send, you can’t get it back

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Scouter

I agree Jimm. We don’t need 18 more pages of rant. If you have anything different to add then feel free. This tactic of the sky is falling, world coming to an end is only fueling the fire and dividing us. Let’s all try to stick as close to facts as possible.

Here is a fact, 20% of your entire post history since 2007 has been on this thread making instigating comments.


That’s a fact anyone can look up.

Jimm has been about the most informative poster on this thread and has done so without cheap shots or snide remarks. I admit this is a topic that gets my attention so I appreciate what Jimm’s done. Unfortunately it’s something that will have a negative impact on our resources, and in all honesty that’s the point you are getting across.


I brought up what’s going on in Manitoba, you brought up killing sheep in cadomin? Pretty funny.

[Scouter]

Originally Posted by Jimm

You can’t help yourself can you, you do your best to point out the positives but you can’t do it without taking a shot at someone, I’m not part of either side on this spat, I know you did not mean it that way but thanks for allowing me to add more info if I have it lol. Once you click send, you can’t get it back

You are correct Jimm. I didn’t mean it that way but see your point. I’m going try counting to 10 in future before sending. Thanks Jimm !

[marky_mark]

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/57bd...ta-jun2010.pdf

This is the old deal? Correct?
Im not seeing where the qualifications of being a metis harvester change from the old deal to the new deal?

[Scouter]

I believed the difference is in the contemporary community requirement. Now you no longer have to prove acceptance and involvement. Just a current address in harvesting area.
Maybe. I’m not 100%

[Ronaround]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Getting in our new government will be one step forward for Alberta but they won’t be miracle workers. This new deal will be good for the metis until it’s bad for everyone, only then will things change. Once the crown land gets cleaned out and the only place you find game is on privately owned land where landowners can control harvesters, like what’s happening in Manitoba, then the squeaky wheels will get greased.

I suppose one thing land owners can do is restrict Hunting to licensed hunters only. If we don’t like the laws set out by the government we can still work within the law to help manage things on our own. I know it’s something I’ll be bringing up on my travels.

One thing we might be able to lobby our new government to do is remove anyone with harvest rights from applying in our draw systems, using up opportunities people without harvest rights have.

I know I dont have a dog in this fight and hope you dont my 2 cents?, but my question after following the story for awhile is>> if private land can Hold the key to limit perpetual over harvesting w/o special interests hunting . When does the Crown choose to someday enforce new Regs allowing special exceptions for the same party's when they possibly decimate the Crown animals....Meaning private lands?
New and more political liberal politicians seem to be the norm.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Here is a fact, 20% of your entire post history since 2007 has been on this thread making instigating comments.


That’s a fact anyone can look up.

Jimm has been about the most informative poster on this thread and has done so without cheap shots or snide remarks. I admit this is a topic that gets my attention so I appreciate what Jimm’s done. Unfortunately it’s something that will have a negative impact on our resources, and in all honesty that’s the point you are getting across.


I brought up what’s going on in Manitoba, you brought up killing sheep in cadomin? Pretty funny.

Kurt, can you please clarify your statement on "what's happening in Manitoba"?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Kurt, can you please clarify your statement on "what's happening in Manitoba"?

I posted a link earlier in this thread, I think around page 10.

You can probably just google Manitoba moose, I’m sure lots will come up.

Even with moose at criticaly low levels there is no way of making a law to protect the moose from unregulated hunters.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I posted a link earlier in this thread, I think around page 10.

You can probably just google Manitoba moose, I’m sure lots will come up.

Even with moose at criticaly low levels there is no way of making a law to protect the moose from unregulated hunters.

In manitoba they are even allowed to spot light, just like their pre 1900's ancestors did.

[Kurt505]

Prime example.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...1_4204987.html


And here’s another one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...1_4204987.html

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

In manitoba they are even allowed to spot light, just like their pre 1900's ancestors did.

There is a glimmer of hope that common sense might prevail. Turns out a bullet through a headboard from night harvesters is bad press.... At least something good might come out of it.

https://mwf.mb.ca/2018/05/16/legisla...-spotlighting/

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Prime example.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...1_4204987.html


And here’s another one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...1_4204987.html

Both links are the same Kurt

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Prime example.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...1_4204987.html


And here’s another one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...1_4204987.html

I'd be curious to hear what you take from that article?

If you would go a little further and Google Moose decline in North America, you will see that there are enormous areas in the states where the moose have declined so severely that they've disappeared. In Minnesota they've been lost at an alarming rate where there was NO hunting allowed by anyone.

Article also states there are areas closed to hunting to assist in Moose recovery and that means closed to EVERYONE even to Rights holders. Hence my point that governments do have the tools and the responsibility to manage the natural resources as they deem appropriate to ensure conservation of species. I will be the first to admit that the resource should not get to this state before sound management options are considered but that's what governments do best, react to situations instead of being proactive.

MMF President Chartrand and Grand Chief Daniels support are not needed if the crown wants to infringe on the Rights of Indigenous people, as I stated earlier Treaty Rights are not absolute and can be infringed upon if the crown acts in an honourable manner before imposing restrictions.

Getting back to Manitoba's moose, the populations have recovered to a point where there are harvestable populations of moose. The question is how does the province open? It cannot and will not be status quo, meaning open the areas and allow unrestricted harvesting by anyone...….there will have to be limits imposed to ensure the ongoing survival and management of the populations.

Fear mongering doesn't do anyone any good and only creates further animosity. You sound like a decent hunter, let me ask you, if you pursued your quarry with this reckless abandon, do you think you would be as successful as you've been, I doubt it. My advice is implement the same practises you use while you're hunting to help you address your concerns...…….the advice is free.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Both links are the same Kurt

Here’s is the other one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3750640


MB-Mbr, I’m pretty sure I said that that was exactly what I figure will happen, a reactive approach by our government after it’s too late. I read where chief Chartrand said a his people will most likely not accept a further ban, that they want to eat moose meat. I’m not sure how things will proceed in this case.

To anyone who ACTUALLY needs moose meat to survive this isn’t even an issue to me. To the guys making $160k a year in the patch driving jacked up F350’s, waiting at the gates of cadomin to kill a ram, this is total bs. What percent of these new Metis harvesters actually need harvest rights? None, because they’re still alive and well today. Where is the need for harvest rights when it’s already a 5yr plus wait for a moose draw? It seems greedy doesn’t it? Our moose populations are obviously low, and I can say without the shadow of doubt the granting thousands unregulated hunting rights isn’t going to help the situation.

I’d be interested to see what it took to get a Hunting ban in Manitoba? Was it a simple case of saying “Hey guys, there’s barely any moose left we gotta shut you down for now” and then the special harvesters agreed? Or did they do it like they do for regulated hunters and say “The numbers are low so we’re shutting you down” with no if ands or but’s?

Can you elaborate on how it went down?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I'd be curious to hear what you take from that article?

If you would go a little further and Google Moose decline in North America, you will see that there are enormous areas in the states where the moose have declined so severely that they've disappeared. In Minnesota they've been lost at an alarming rate where there was NO hunting allowed by anyone.

Article also states there are areas closed to hunting to assist in Moose recovery and that means closed to EVERYONE even to Rights holders. Hence my point that governments do have the tools and the responsibility to manage the natural resources as they deem appropriate to ensure conservation of species. I will be the first to admit that the resource should not get to this state before sound management options are considered but that's what governments do best, react to situations instead of being proactive.

MMF President Chartrand and Grand Chief Daniels support are not needed if the crown wants to infringe on the Rights of Indigenous people, as I stated earlier Treaty Rights are not absolute and can be infringed upon if the crown acts in an honourable manner before imposing restrictions.

Getting back to Manitoba's moose, the populations have recovered to a point where there are harvestable populations of moose. The question is how does the province open? It cannot and will not be status quo, meaning open the areas and allow unrestricted harvesting by anyone...….there will have to be limits imposed to ensure the ongoing survival and management of the populations.

Fear mongering doesn't do anyone any good and only creates further animosity. You sound like a decent hunter, let me ask you, if you pursued your quarry with this reckless abandon, do you think you would be as successful as you've been, I doubt it. My advice is implement the same practises you use while you're hunting to help you address your concerns...…….the advice is free.

Most of the areas in the states that have decimated moose populations are due to wolves
There is no unregulated hunting in the states. Not even on reserves. Residents on reserves have to purchase tags, they have a season, and it’s strictly managed. If you look at these reserves in the USA, they have actually reintroduced many species that have disappeared long ago. Moose elk bighorns etc. They have realized that these animals have value and their populations are growing. In the USA they have lost these animals in the past and are making sure it doesn’t happen again. While north of the border we are doing the complete opposite. It boggles my mind.

[moosesniper]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

until you completely kill them off.....

I like moose but one a year is enough for me. In all reality that's only 1 extra moose every 3 years. I just wont be applying for the draw.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by moosesniper

I like moose but one a year is enough for me. In all reality that's only 1 extra moose every 3 years. I just wont be applying for the draw.

Do you mean 2 extra moose every 3 years? I assume you hunt in a zone where you get a moose draw every 3 years?

I also assume that everyone applying for harvest rights intends to use them, so that would roughly translate to 2 moose every three years x number of granted harvesters. I also assume that the success rate will be 100% given the fact they can hunt all year round. Now factor in abuse rate because no matter how good of morals most people have there is always some who will break the rules, whether it be killing more than they need, killing for trophy purposes or claiming an animal for someone without harvest rights. I’m not sure what that number will be but it will definitely be there, let’s say 10% just for arguments sake. I’ll grab a low ball number as I’m sure it will be much higher, but for now (this will only include the new ones, not their future generations) 1100.

1100 x 2 = 2200

2200 + 10% = 2420 every 2 years for the first few years, then will rise with population growth.

I haven’t looked into it, but maybe someone like Walking Buffalo knows what the harvest number is for regulated hunters in comparison?

How long will future draw waits be? How will the moose population handle the added pressure? I only see it as a negative result for both.

[R3illy]

Kurt when you make a blanket statement like how many metis people need harvesting rights and you follow it up with "NONE" then it's not about conservation. It's about removing rights from first nations.

I know Its hard for you to keep on track with how often you flip flop.

There is a middle ground on conservation and respecting metis/first nations rights.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by R3illy

Kurt when you make a blanket statement like how many metis people need harvesting rights and you follow it up with "NONE" then it's not about conservation. It's about removing rights from first nations.

I know Its hard for you to keep on track with how often you flip flop.

There is a middle ground on conservation and respecting metis/first nations rights.

Never have I flip flopped on the subject, it’s your one track mind that fails to accept the facts.

Leave it to you to purposely take my post out of context. Since you constantly enjoy taking my statements out of context I will explain to the people you are trying to mislead.

How many Metis are living in Alberta (I’m pretty sure it was 110,000)? How many of them have had harvest rights(before the recent ones in the past decade or so)? None? How many Metis needed harvest rights to survive? None. While you were cherry picking my post did you happen read the part where I stated that I have absolutely no problem with those who need special harvest rights? So my statement was directed towards Metis people because that’s who this thread s about, because of you I will further expand my bold statement to ANY SINGLE RACE OR RELIGION does not need special harvest rights to survive in 2019. As I also pointed out there may well be a select few individual cases who are an exception.

How can you take away what they have never had? Clearly your sole motive is to try mislead people in an attempt to justify something you know full well is bs.

Are you getting it yet R3illy? ITS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CONSERVATION.

You love to take cheap shots at every chance, but I’ve yet to see where you’ve answered any question asked of you. How about you start?

Instead of worrying about how I feel about special harvest rights being handed out, how about you give me your thoughts on:

1) How this new decision will affect moose populations?

2) How this new decision will affect draw wait times?

3) How do you feel about all other Albertans this will affect, who are already facing long wait times for a draw?

I know it’s hard for you to understand, but there are other Albertans who deserve the right to enjoy our resources.

Now is your chance to prove that you’re not in it for yourself but for Albertans and our wildlife. 3 simple to answer questions. Or you can just keep up with your biased posts.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I'd be curious to hear what you take from that article?

If you would go a little further and Google Moose decline in North America, you will see that there are enormous areas in the states where the moose have declined so severely that they've disappeared. In Minnesota they've been lost at an alarming rate where there was NO hunting allowed by anyone.

Article also states there are areas closed to hunting to assist in Moose recovery and that means closed to EVERYONE even to Rights holders. Hence my point that governments do have the tools and the responsibility to manage the natural resources as they deem appropriate to ensure conservation of species. I will be the first to admit that the resource should not get to this state before sound management options are considered but that's what governments do best, react to situations instead of being proactive.

MMF President Chartrand and Grand Chief Daniels support are not needed if the crown wants to infringe on the Rights of Indigenous people, as I stated earlier Treaty Rights are not absolute and can be infringed upon if the crown acts in an honourable manner before imposing restrictions.

Getting back to Manitoba's moose, the populations have recovered to a point where there are harvestable populations of moose. The question is how does the province open? It cannot and will not be status quo, meaning open the areas and allow unrestricted harvesting by anyone...….there will have to be limits imposed to ensure the ongoing survival and management of the populations.

Fear mongering doesn't do anyone any good and only creates further animosity. You sound like a decent hunter, let me ask you, if you pursued your quarry with this reckless abandon, do you think you would be as successful as you've been, I doubt it. My advice is implement the same practises you use while you're hunting to help you address your concerns...…….the advice is free.

Manitoba's moose population should be kept closed for at least 10 more years where they were shut down,your talking about area 26 and those areas.

Your right on the Ontario boarder and the moose are down 90 percent,even towards red lake the numbers are way to low,i could care less if they shut it all down for 20 years,the hay days are over and there lots of beef out there,go hammer a head of beef with the owners permission.
Someone in Pine Falls shot 5 moose just a few weeks ago and I believe they said poachers because that area is closed to all hunters an that's area 26.Either way who the hell shoots pregnant cows this time of year.This is just a political statement on who can do what and FW no darn well who did this.

It's off topic ,but you made the statement and it isn't true ,it's false,i drove that whole area twice last fall and nothing is even close to where it was or coming back.I have friends that are bush pilots and there story is the same as mine.

Jerry Daniels isn't dying from starvation and neither is David Chartrand .All those leaders are very healthy and I know them both,David I know many in his family,think I will drive out an see him one day.

The first priority is the well being of there people for any leader white or FN,not hunting rights and some moose.That boat sailed away decades ago .

There is good reason why some want to be all on the same playing field,like all buying tags and draws.In Manitoba all hunting should be stopped till an agreement that all parties are happy with,then things would happen fast and I mean faster than you could ever think or just let it all get wiped out then there's nothing to argue about over hunting.

There is no easy answer for Alberta hunters,but I truly believe if the name calling and belittling on both sides stops and better plans are made in a respectful manner the metis will welcome all to sit and talk to proper leaders,but the racist parts have to be put in the past or nothing will go forwards.

Plus one million new immigrants are here or coming by 2020,so getting this done is very important.I know many Metis and there are great people,but in every group there's always someone who doesn't respect anything and were no different in our society .Advice for free is the best thing I heard yet.

[Kurt505]

Great post JD, thanks for your input.

R3illy, to put things into perspective for you, and to maybe help you understand the reason some of us aren’t happy about this decision. Right now in Alberta there are about 7800 moose harvested by licensed Hunters during Hunting season, spread out between about 127,000 licensed hunters, so about 6% we’re lucky enough to get a moose draw. I realize the numbers I posted on Metis harvest numbers are purely speculative, but I don’t think they are above a best case scinario. It’ll be a 15% increase in moose being harvested and I’m sure that will translate into a 15% reduction in opportunity for licensed hunters, or 15% longer wait times for draws for the resident Albertans who already only have a slim chance at an opportunity to harvest a moose. You are so worried about losing your harvest right, but have you ever stopped to consider the other people in this province?

I know this means nothing to you, but that doesn’t mean you have to cry foul anytime someone wants to try and protect what little they have. Sometimes you have to think of others.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Here’s is the other one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3750640


MB-Mbr, I’m pretty sure I said that that was exactly what I figure will happen, a reactive approach by our government after it’s too late. I read where chief Chartrand said a his people will most likely not accept a further ban, that they want to eat moose meat. I’m not sure how things will proceed in this case.

To anyone who ACTUALLY needs moose meat to survive this isn’t even an issue to me. To the guys making $160k a year in the patch driving jacked up F350’s, waiting at the gates of cadomin to kill a ram, this is total bs. What percent of these new Metis harvesters actually need harvest rights? None, because they’re still alive and well today. Where is the need for harvest rights when it’s already a 5yr plus wait for a moose draw? It seems greedy doesn’t it? Our moose populations are obviously low, and I can say without the shadow of doubt the granting thousands unregulated hunting rights isn’t going to help the situation.

I’d be interested to see what it took to get a Hunting ban in Manitoba? Was it a simple case of saying “Hey guys, there’s barely any moose left we gotta shut you down for now” and then the special harvesters agreed? Or did they do it like they do for regulated hunters and say “The numbers are low so we’re shutting you down” with no if ands or but’s?

Can you elaborate on how it went down?

Kurt, I've said it many times and I'll say it again, The Supreme Court of Canada has stated that Treaty, Aboriginal or metis Rights
are not absolute, meaning conservation takes priority. As a Rights holder I do not have to agree or any rights holder does not have to AGREE in order for the crown to implement actions to conserve a species. Rights holders are owed a duty of Consultation but consultation does not mean veto. The crown has to act with honour and demonstrate there is an issue with low population numbers. If the crown does not act honorably then the decision could be challenged, so the crown has be to transparent and be backed by sound science.....

I know for a fact there are _hitheads in our First Nation community who will kill for the sake of killing with no regard for land owners property , just like there are in the metis community AND just like there are in the licensed fraternity...! If there wasn't we wouldn't need laws and enforcement. BUT there are also folks in all segments of these same factions that believe in conservation, preservation and sustainable use of the resources...…..

I'm not questioning your passion but you have to change your tactics if you want to accomplish your end goals, your current methodology will not work, doesn't matter how many on this board agree with you.....!

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Most of the areas in the states that have decimated moose populations are due to wolves
There is no unregulated hunting in the states. Not even on reserves. Residents on reserves have to purchase tags, they have a season, and it’s strictly managed. If you look at these reserves in the USA, they have actually reintroduced many species that have disappeared long ago. Moose elk bighorns etc. They have realized that these animals have value and their populations are growing. In the USA they have lost these animals in the past and are making sure it doesn’t happen again. While north of the border we are doing the complete opposite. It boggles my mind.

All you have to do is do a little research and you will quickly realize what the difference is between the two countries. In Canada Indians were made wards of the state in the U.S they told the tribes its your territory for you do with it as you want...…...that's a coles notes version.

They also have a vested interest in the resources nothing here.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

All you have to do is do a little research and you will quickly realize what the difference is between the two countries. In Canada Indians were made wards of the state in the U.S they told the tribes its your territory for you do with it as you want...…...that's a coles notes version.

They also have a vested interest in the resources nothing here.

Hmmm
I’m pretty sure that reserves in Canada get royalties for resources on their land?
Oh I know there is differences between the agreements and treaty’s that the two countries made.
I’d rather not get this thread off topic
Basically i don’t see what’s stopping our fn from having a more vested interest in our wildlife. If it has value then it won’t go unnoticed or be as easily exploited.

I understand that the Métis harvesting rights aren’t really what they were after. They want to be considered equals with the other fn’s.
As Reilly and scooter alluded to, there’s more in the works.
Which probably means a stake in the transmountain pipeline and other projects
Makes sense, how can you be perceived by the people in toronto or Vancouver as being fn without being hunters, fishermen or trappers
I get it

Like Kurt said, my beef is with conservation being thrown out the window. There is no need for uncontrolled harvesting. It’s 2019 not 1819

[R3illy]

Originally Posted by JD848

There is no easy answer for Alberta hunters,but I truly believe if the name calling and belittling on both sides stops and better plans are made in a respectful manner the metis will welcome all to sit and talk to proper leaders,but the racist parts have to be put in the past or nothing will go forwards.

I said something similar a few times. Respect is lacking on this discussion from all parties. This may be one of the only suggestions/solutions I've seen that didn't start with remove metis hunting rights.

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Instead of worrying about how I feel about special harvest rights being handed out, how about you give me your thoughts on:

1) How this new decision will affect moose populations?

2) How this new decision will affect draw wait times?

3) How do you feel about all other Albertans this will affect, who are already facing long wait times for a draw?

I know it’s hard for you to understand, but there are other Albertans who deserve the right to enjoy our resources.

On page one i shared my biggest concern with the new changes was seeing alberta turn into provinces out east that have had membership swell to 100,000 members only for the purpose of gaining hunting/fishing rights. I shared other concerns as well with over sight on who gets harvesting rights as well as openly asked if they would be tracking this info.

I have just as many reservations on these changes just like many others and hope conservation is seriously considered. Mandatory registration of all kills would be a good start but that's not on the table.

Personally i don't think there's going to be a big change this year on the moose numbers and im basing this off the info Jimm and other users shared on the number of metis harvestors.

In regards to the draw times they will continue to get worst each year for many reasons.

If the topic was about conservation the dialogue would start with open communication between affected parties to help sort out what a solution to the concerns look like. You have already determined your pre drawn conclusion must start with removing metis rights.

That's not much of a discussion when thats your starting point is it? I believe there could be some reasonable solutions when it comes to conservation to help bridge the divide.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by R3illy

If the topic was about conservation the dialogue would start with open communication between affected parties to help sort out what a solution to the concerns look like. You have already determined your pre drawn conclusion must start with removing metis rights.

That's not much of a discussion when thats your starting point is it? I believe there could be some reasonable solutions when it comes to conservation to help bridge the divide.

right out of the handbook
Except you used communication instead of consultation

“The language of victimhood seduces, then paralyzes”
Irshad Manji

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by R3illy

On page one i shared my biggest concern with the new changes was seeing alberta turn into provinces out east that have had membership swell to 100,000 members only for the purpose of gaining hunting/fishing rights. I shared other concerns as well with over sight on who gets harvesting rights as well as openly asked if they would be tracking this info.

I have just as many reservations on these changes just like many others and hope conservation is seriously considered. Mandatory registration of all kills would be a good start but that's not on the table.

Personally i don't think there's going to be a big change this year on the moose numbers and im basing this off the info Jimm and other users shared on the number of metis harvestors.

In regards to the draw times they will continue to get worst each year for many reasons.

If the topic was about conservation the dialogue would start with open communication between affected parties to help sort out what a solution to the concerns look like. You have already determined your pre drawn conclusion must start with removing metis rights.

That's not much of a discussion when thats your starting point is it? I believe there could be some reasonable solutions when it comes to conservation to help bridge the divide.

I understood you have concerns, and I also understand why.

Mandatory registration of all kills by people with harvest rights is something I’ve been hoping for for a long time now, I don’t seem to remember if you agreed with me on that in the past, is it something you think all First Nations and Metis should adapt? If nothing else at least it will be effective in helping keep track of accurate harvest numbers. Why isn’t that on the table??

Jimm said about 1100 members will be getting their harvest rights, that’s the number I used for my example. Also I found the harvest numbers for moose on mywildalberta, I took a 5 year average to get 7800 moose per year, it also has the information on number of Hunting licenses sold, 127,000 across Alberta. I am only guessing but I don’t think most are getting harvest rights so they can have another card to put in their wallet, and I don’t hear from many people that they prefer the taste of deer over the taste of moose. I don’t share your thoughts on what will happen with our moose population one bit.

Why is it you feel draw times will continue to get worse every year? They are based off of 2 factors, one is number of hunters applying, the second thing is number of animals. It’s a pretty simple concept. If animal populations go up, draw wait times go down. If populations go down draw wait times go up. Adding thousand(s) of unregulated hunters who will hunt year round will only sway the balance in one direction.

My predawn conclusion to this topic is that by adding thousands of unregulated hunters to an already depleting population of animals is further destroying my opportunities to hunt, to the point I’m doubtful my 6yr old son will ever have the opportunity to harvest a moose. This is something my grandfather (most likely great grandfather as well) has done, my father has done, I have done, and now is iffy at best that my son will be able to do. You don’t get it because you already have a right to unregulated harvesting, and it’s easy to tell how willing you are to give up that right, let alone have to apply for a draw at a chance to harvest a moose in a limited amount of time where you better have your schedule worked out or you’re sol until your next lotto win happens.

Conservation is not up to me or the members on this forum, it’s up to the government, and if it ever was up for discussion, or even a concern for our government they would have had an action plan in place before handing out harvest rights. Unfortunately the only plan they’ve ever implemented is the one they will continue to use, take away opportunities from the regulated community because there’s no red tape to work through. You should really consider these things when you think we are overreacting.

So I have to ask, what reasonable solutions would you suggest for conservation that doesn’t just involve taking more opportunities away from regulated harvesters to help bridge the gap? What compromise do you see the First Nation and Metis giving in to to help better things for licensed hunters who, up until this point have been the only ones losing opportunity while watching more opportunity being handed out? I know it’s a tough question, but I would really be interested to hear what you figure, I’m not being sarcastic or spiteful, it’s a genuine question. With the harvest rights just being granted right now to the Metis people, I honestly don’t see much hope in a compromise coming forward.

At the very least I hope you’re able to understand where I’ve been coming from, I hope you can understand this isn’t about wanting to strip people of their rights, it’s to preserve what little opportunity we regulated hunters have, and without proper management, conservation doesn’t stand a chance. Without conservation our opportunities don’t stand a chance. Little by little I’ve been watching it slip away.

[58thecat]

Unregulated hunting.....criminals....shooting more than needed and after breeding season taking out a cow....it's not about what was for one group of people it is for what is now....if the government can only see this, implement laws reflecting this and oh yup we might have a few uprisings but we got lots of combat arm regiments that if needed will take care of this real quick...a few years of uneasiness then things are set straight for future years....better than the crap right now.