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  #31  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:12 AM
Gray Wolf Gray Wolf is offline
 
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Talking . Bame Edison !

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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
Electric might be the future but is makes no sense.
It does not reduce the carbon footprint just moves the carbon release to the battery factories and the generating stations.
Now, if we completely went to nuclear generating stations, we might have something.
As it is - complete social engineering debacle.



This has been going on for over 100 years!

It's Edison's fault !
.
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  #32  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:15 AM
Map Maker Map Maker is offline
 
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Originally Posted by artie View Post
yup years ago they talked me into a propane conversion for my truck. For what I do one of the worst mistakes I have made.
I remember the people that bought Betamax video machines said the same thing.
Price of trying to be cutting edge.

I don't think gas engines can get much more efficient so all the brain power is going to battery and electric.
Maybe something else will come on the market, who knows.

Nuclear is not even in the realm of discussion in my books esp. for Alberta.
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  #33  
Old 11-18-2017, 12:23 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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The entire concept of electric vehicles is based on the mistaken belief that somehow fossil fuel emissions will be reduced.
The does not appear to be any reduction in TOTAL emissions just the location of the emissions (from the vehicle to the generating station).
A lot of people are under the impression that electricity just magically appears at the plug in. More fossil fueled generating stations will have to be constructed to keep up with the demand for electricity - so I am not seeing where the net benefit would be.
Until the world discovers a clean source of power generation - then electric vehicles are all just smoke and mirrors.
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  #34  
Old 11-18-2017, 12:42 PM
Bighorn River Bighorn River is offline
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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
The entire concept of electric vehicles is based on the mistaken belief that somehow fossil fuel emissions will be reduced.
The does not appear to be any reduction in TOTAL emissions just the location of the emissions (from the vehicle to the generating station).
A lot of people are under the impression that electricity just magically appears at the plug in. More fossil fueled generating stations will have to be constructed to keep up with the demand for electricity - so I am not seeing where the net benefit would be.
Until the world discovers a clean source of power generation - then electric vehicles are all just smoke and mirrors.
This is wrong. An electric vehicle powered by a natural gas power plant is better than a gasoline engine on total emissions. As the amount of renewables increase it just gets better. Huge benefits even from switching based on current electricity mix.

Check out some of the EV sales statistics - from nothing to 1% of global sales in 7 years. China the world leader and almost at 2% increasing exponentially every year. Its only going to take 30% penetration to permanently crash oil prices.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/30...onth-ev-sales/
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  #35  
Old 11-18-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
I would like to see the Tesla pulling a full size drilling rig with all 12 drive tires chained chewing its way up a high ridge in the foothills, it will never happen. It might make a good delivery truck for potato chips in the city.
Electric have more torque than any gas/diesel/transmission/axle combination. That is just reality.

You did know that haul trucks were driven by electric motors, right? As are trains locomotives. You're grasping at straws here.
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  #36  
Old 11-18-2017, 01:31 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bighorn River View Post
This is wrong. An electric vehicle powered by a natural gas power plant is better than a gasoline engine on total emissions. As the amount of renewables increase it just gets better. Huge benefits even from switching based on current electricity mix.

Check out some of the EV sales statistics - from nothing to 1% of global sales in 7 years. China the world leader and almost at 2% increasing exponentially every year. Its only going to take 30% penetration to permanently crash oil prices.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/30...onth-ev-sales/
China generates around 69% of it's electricity from coal. It will take decades before there is any benefit - if ever.
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  #37  
Old 11-18-2017, 02:10 PM
Bighorn River Bighorn River is offline
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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
China generates around 69% of it's electricity from coal. It will take decades before there is any benefit - if ever.
Yup heavy coal use is about the same as a gasoline vehicle, but coal % has peaked in China and now they are deploying more renewables than anyone else in the world.

The world's electricity mix is getting cleaner, and its already cleaner in most countries to power an electric vehicle than gasoline.

EVs improving fast, sales increasing every year, grids getting cleaner. There is a revolution taking place. It might be comforting to keep repeating the same old talking points from 2010 about EVs not being viable, China getting dirtier etc etc, but the world is moving on. All the data points point one way. It will be a brave politician in Alberta who will want to have the conversation about whats coming.
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  #38  
Old 11-18-2017, 02:35 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Cummins has already built and released the components for full electric drive, that they will sell the to the OEM's. Test units are being built in conjunction with the OEM's. They created a new division just for that. Seems like they see the writing on the wall. Hybrid setups seem to have disappeared , haven't been too well accepted yet, at least not without big subsidies on them. Eaton shut down the hybrid stuff they had. Seems unlikely that Tesla will ever get it off the ground, investors in Tesla are already getting nervous about them. OEM's like Daimler and Paccar and Navistar will likely release trucks before Tesla actually builds their plant... Tesla is probably toast in that arena. Then governments will have to figure out how not to legislate a whole bunch of people out of work at the current OEM suppliers.
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  #39  
Old 11-18-2017, 02:48 PM
The_Pale_Rider The_Pale_Rider is offline
 
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Fossil Fuels are not going anywhere. Oh we may not burn them for power generation, but anyone want to speak about where all the copper wiring in your home came from? How about the nails and screws? Did the wood cut itself to appropriate lengths? What is your toilet and bathtub made out of? How does the drinking water get to the house and waste from it? Concrete? (I've heard $1000 / cubic meter after flyash goes away) Ashphalt shingles? Vehicle wise: How do the rubber plants make the appropriate sized tires? What is the casing for the batteries made out of? How about the casings for the electric motors and windings? Transmissions? Differentials? Bearings? I must have missed seeing all the overhead power lines for the haul trucks and locomotives, oh wait, that's DIESEL-Electric motors. Mine draglines and some shovels are electric, about 20 megawatts an hour for the draglines, somewhere around 7 to 10 for the smaller shovels.
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  #40  
Old 11-18-2017, 03:55 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bighorn River View Post
Yup heavy coal use is about the same as a gasoline vehicle, but coal % has peaked in China and now they are deploying more renewables than anyone else in the world.

The world's electricity mix is getting cleaner, and its already cleaner in most countries to power an electric vehicle than gasoline.

EVs improving fast, sales increasing every year, grids getting cleaner. There is a revolution taking place. It might be comforting to keep repeating the same old talking points from 2010 about EVs not being viable, China getting dirtier etc etc, but the world is moving on. All the data points point one way. It will be a brave politician in Alberta who will want to have the conversation about whats coming.
Of course coal % has peaked in China. That's not my point. It is going to take a very long time to convert to other sources. And it's no surprise that China would be deploying the most renewables in the world. They have the world's largest population. It's called economics.

A large reason that parts of the world are getting a cleaner electricity mix - particularly in North America - is because the natural gas price has fallen thru the floor. I doesn't make sense to burn coal when converting to natural gas is cheaper. Again, economics.

So where are all the EV's? There are none on my street or even in my neighborhood. When can I go buy an electric pickup that will do all the things my current gas model does. Oh, wait, I can't because there aren't any.
How data points are generated from things that don't exist yet is beyond me.
If it makes people feel all warm and fuzzy predicting a future of rainbows and unicorns - so be it. However, I have been around long enough to see that is not the way real life usually turns out.
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  #41  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bighorn River View Post
Yup heavy coal use is about the same as a gasoline vehicle, but coal % has peaked in China and now they are deploying more renewables than anyone else in the world.

The world's electricity mix is getting cleaner, and its already cleaner in most countries to power an electric vehicle than gasoline.

EVs improving fast, sales increasing every year, grids getting cleaner. There is a revolution taking place. It might be comforting to keep repeating the same old talking points from 2010 about EVs not being viable, China getting dirtier etc etc, but the world is moving on. All the data points point one way. It will be a brave politician in Alberta who will want to have the conversation about whats coming.
This be true ^^^

Dodger.
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  #42  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:27 PM
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When Tesla goes into bankruptcy in about 2-3 years the other automakers who have a track record of actually delivering high volumes of vehicles can scoop up Tesla's partly built and completed factories for pennies on the dollar. They might even buy the name and resurrect the brand and models, except they'll deliver the product.
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  #43  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:48 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
I would like to see the Tesla pulling a full size drilling rig with all 12 drive tires chained chewing its way up a high ridge in the foothills, it will never happen. It might make a good delivery truck for potato chips in the city.
Chances are Loblaw's won't need to access a well site. They will however do a lot of delivery trips to various stores and they will just wire a charging outlet at the loading docks so that they top up their batteries at the same time as they unload. I bet they are also very interested in the autonomous driving abilities built into the trucks. Their accountants are thinking, "24/7 , 365 days a year with no driver to pay or diesel or servicing" ......Yup I think they have done their homework.
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  #44  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Electric have more torque than any gas/diesel/transmission/axle combination. That is just reality.

You did know that haul trucks were driven by electric motors, right? As are trains locomotives. You're grasping at straws here.
Haul trucks and locomotives don’t run on batteries. They have 3-5000 horsepower Diesel engines creating the electricity.
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  #45  
Old 11-18-2017, 06:56 PM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bighorn River View Post
This is wrong. An electric vehicle powered by a natural gas power plant is better than a gasoline engine on total emissions. As the amount of renewables increase it just gets better. Huge benefits even from switching based on current electricity mix.

Check out some of the EV sales statistics - from nothing to 1% of global sales in 7 years. China the world leader and almost at 2% increasing exponentially every year. Its only going to take 30% penetration to permanently crash oil prices.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/30...onth-ev-sales/
Ok, are you taking into account additional distribution infrastructure construction and maintenance as well?

I always feel there is so much more to these green energy scams than the promoters of them let on.
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  #46  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:12 PM
Map Maker Map Maker is offline
 
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Heres a californian newspaper saying california will be 50% renewable energy in 2 years.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...y-12354313.php

I guess who do we believe, californian newspaper or anonimous people on a forum.
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  #47  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:19 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Map Maker View Post
Heres a californian newspaper saying california will be 50% renewable energy in 2 years.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...y-12354313.php

I guess who do we believe, californian newspaper or anonimous people on a forum.
California is not the only place that has big plans to replace fossil fuels.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...2020-1.3280498
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  #48  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:30 PM
Supergrit Supergrit is offline
 
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If your electricty is from coal it’s dirtier then diesel. In Canada heating element for the cab of truck would take a toll on the battery pretty fast. It’s good people are thinking about and building these vehicle but they have a long way to go.
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  #49  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bighorn River View Post
Yup heavy coal use is about the same as a gasoline vehicle, but coal % has peaked in China and now they are deploying more renewables than anyone else in the world.
Say what? Peaked??!?!?!?! HAHAHAHA!!!! You realize there are about 1000 coal plants under construction in the world right now; about 600 of them in China. Once the rest of the world stops burning coal, China will burn more, as coal prices plummet. It won't be clean technology like the Boundary dam in Estevan Sask either.
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  #50  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:07 PM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is offline
 
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I have many clients with Tesla's and I ask them constantly about their cars and I must say that not a single person has had an issue with cold weather and their battery life. It actually was a bit of a surprise to me but it seems that it just isn't proving an issue.
As a commuter, there would never be an issue. Ask how many of them plan to travel from Calgary to High Level in one day at -20C.
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  #51  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:11 PM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Ten years ago the negative nellies were convinced that batteries should only be used to start vehicles. Now, the same doubters are saying “ya but they can’t pull like a diesel”. Fast forward ten years and they’ll be whining about the cost of electricity to power their rig. Really, is there anybody that truly believes electric is not the future?
I believe electric is the future, can you give me firsthand info on your brand of EV? How about your relatives EV's? OK, how about your friend's EV's? How about your sister's, boyfriend's, uncle's, former camp-roommate? How is his EV performing?

I live in the now, not the future. When the future arrives I will buy an EV.
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  #52  
Old 11-19-2017, 12:01 AM
normstad normstad is offline
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
I believe electric is the future, can you give me firsthand info on your brand of EV? How about your relatives EV's? OK, how about your friend's EV's? How about your sister's, boyfriend's, uncle's, former camp-roommate? How is his EV performing?

I live in the now, not the future. When the future arrives I will buy an EV.
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."

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  #53  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:23 AM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is offline
 
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"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."

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  #54  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post

I live in the now, not the future. When the future arrives I will buy an EV.


Well Don't hold your breath, cuz it aint gonna happen in our lifetime......Plain and Simple
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  #55  
Old 11-19-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
As a commuter, there would never be an issue. Ask how many of them plan to travel from Calgary to High Level in one day at -20C.
A lot of them do much more than commute. One of my guys drives Calgary to Edmonton and back a few times a week usually and we did have this conversation. No issues at all.

I should say I am no fan boy of the products, but I am for real world assessments of things and I have been talking right to the daily users and have not heard a single issue back in regards to the battery life. When guys are spending high 5 to low 6 figures on cars, they are quick to lose their patience when they have issues, and I am just not seeing that happening. In fact they all seem to really love their cars! Equally in fact to other premium manufacturers.
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  #56  
Old 11-19-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by colroggal View Post
It'll be a long time before you see one mounting the Salmo-Creston in January.

Oh, and for those that read the article, loblaws doesn't have a corporate fleet. Nor does Wal-Mart. Just a cheap pr swindle.

Colin
Wlamart does have a fleet. At least Walmart US...
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  #57  
Old 11-19-2017, 10:43 AM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is offline
 
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Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
A lot of them do much more than commute. One of my guys drives Calgary to Edmonton and back a few times a week usually and we did have this conversation. No issues at all.

I should say I am no fan boy of the products, but I am for real world assessments of things and I have been talking right to the daily users and have not heard a single issue back in regards to the battery life. When guys are spending high 5 to low 6 figures on cars, they are quick to lose their patience when they have issues, and I am just not seeing that happening. In fact they all seem to really love their cars! Equally in fact to other premium manufacturers.
I wonder if he is actually doing the round trip in one day. If so, he has time to recharge as he sits in whatever meeting he's attending. Good for him if it works.
I also wonder if it truly is his summer car. I also said high level, not Edmonton. What would he do if he just got to Edmonton and found out his wife was in the hospital? I would turn around and head back without needing to even fill my car. He can pine at a charging station.

Until an EV is as practical, reliable, utilitarian, and as proven as an internal combustion engine they will never own the market share of auto sales. Once they achieve those goals I believe they will replace ICE vehicles. I just laugh at the idea people think everyone will have an EV in 3 years. If I buy a new Suburban this year, I will be driving it for 15 years. I won't be buying an EV just because before that time.
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  #58  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
I wonder if he is actually doing the round trip in one day. If so, he has time to recharge as he sits in whatever meeting he's attending. Good for him if it works.
I also wonder if it truly is his summer car. I also said high level, not Edmonton. What would he do if he just got to Edmonton and found out his wife was in the hospital? I would turn around and head back without needing to even fill my car. He can pine at a charging station.

Until an EV is as practical, reliable, utilitarian, and as proven as an internal combustion engine they will never own the market share of auto sales. Once they achieve those goals I believe they will replace ICE vehicles. I just laugh at the idea people think everyone will have an EV in 3 years. If I buy a new Suburban this year, I will be driving it for 15 years. I won't be buying an EV just because before that time.
It is definitely his only car and the talks started when he came two see me 2 winters back buying winter tires and wheels for it. I have quite a few customers who are Tesla owners and they all winter drive. This particular guy says he charges full before he leaves Calgary and in Edmonton does a 20 minute recharge and that gets him back to Calgary. If he is really rolling fast he sometimes has to hit the recharge station in Balzac for a quick recharge, but if he behaves he gets back home no problem.

I am not totally sold either, but I do believe a lot of the old battery issues are slowly getting ironed out these days. Room to improve though for sure...
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  #59  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:27 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
I believe electric is the future, can you give me firsthand info on your brand of EV? How about your relatives EV's? OK, how about your friend's EV's? How about your sister's, boyfriend's, uncle's, former camp-roommate? How is his EV performing?

I live in the now, not the future. When the future arrives I will buy an EV.
Well I can. A close friend has a Tesla with the 85KWH battery. He regularly travels from North Van to Vernon to ski. He stops in Hope to get a coffee and at the same time plugs into a super charger while he's getting his coffee and then drives to Silver Star resort.He then plugs into the outside outlet everyone uses for their block heaters. He says it's the best winter vehicle he's ever driven.
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  #60  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
Electric is absolutely going to be the future, whether it makes sense in reality or not. It's all about virtue signalling and feeling good. Some interesting articles that actually sheds light on the whole EV and carbon footprint myth, and the Tesla truck.

http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/ne...t-teslas-truck

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mot...-co2-emissions

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mot...-electric-cars
Wow $200 000.00 for the batteries...
Wow Batteries weigh 22 tons, which is heavier than the payload...
Looking like a bit more engineering needs to happen.
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