Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-23-2017, 09:11 AM
philintheblank's Avatar
philintheblank philintheblank is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 998
Default Meat grinder motor power???

How are electric motors rated for power?

I am looking at different meat grinders online and the watts vs. HP seems a bit confusing.

i have a crappy tire special that i got years ago that is 300w with no HP rating and its fine for deer but bogs down easy. My buddy has a similar style grinder thats 750w and 3/4HP (i checked the data sticker on the bottom) but seems to bog down just like mine.

Then i look at the 3/4HP cabelas grinders (cant find a wattage rating online) and people say they cant keep up witu those beast.

then on amazon and ebay there are 1200 peak watt grinders and 1HP for like $150 and im sure you get what you pay for but how do these numbers determine grinding power and pounds per minute of processing speed?

peek watts vs. watts vs. HP ?

is it all in the gear box?

is it even worth considering these high wattage grinders that are online. or is it just misleading wording on the ads and they are the same crappy grinders that C-Tire and wallmart sell?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-23-2017, 09:52 AM
bobalong bobalong is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,130
Default

I bought this unit (1/2hp) a couple of weeks ago. We usually only do one or two animals a year and so far this unit has worked great. Feeds pretty fast just grinding, a bit slower for making sausage though. We did about 70 lbs of grinding this year and no "plugups" with the coarse cutting plate in. I see they have them on sale now.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...1267_200451267
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-23-2017, 10:40 AM
Eastgoeswest Eastgoeswest is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 108
Default

1 hp = 746 watts

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:44 PM
philintheblank's Avatar
philintheblank philintheblank is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 998
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastgoeswest View Post
1 hp = 746 watts

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
so here is an example off what i have been seeing

1 HP motor

1200 peak watt

550w rated power...

sounds too me lile they are just making it seem more powerfull that it really is
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-23-2017, 04:02 PM
Dick284's Avatar
Dick284 Dick284 is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,572
Default

Horsepower(true power)
Watts(true power)
Volt amps(apparent power)

To get 1 horsepower output from a motor you will require more than 746 watts input, because there's no such thing as a 100% efficient motor.

So let's say you got a motor that's 90% efficient.
You'll need 746 watts input multiplied by the inverse of 90%.
(746x(1/.9))=829 watts.

Then there's the relation ship called power factor that all motors posses, which requires more current input to get a true power output.
Onna motor like you'd have on a grinder figure a powerfactor of about 0.8.

So 829 watts multiplied by the inverse of 0.8 equals (829x(1/.8))=1036 volt amps.
Volt amps divided by the supply voltage(single phase) equals the input current required.
1036/120=8.6amps.

All this math goes out the window if there's gears and the like involved, then there's the pitch of the grinder screw, and the sharpness of the grinder cutter blades, size of the grinder plate openings, and the amount of sinue and silverskin you feed the grinder.

FWIW, I get by with a 1/2HP Omcam grinder, which is one of the better models of semi proffesional design.
http://www.omcan.com/meatgrinders/smg50.html
__________________


There are no absolutes
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-24-2017, 07:04 AM
jcrayford jcrayford is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Usually the office, but the bush when I can
Posts: 1,281
Default

Not sure about the power rating thing with most grinders, but I've got a LEM from BassPro rated for 1 HP. This thing has metal gears (Most of the LEMs except some of the smaller models run metal gears) and with a throat on the grinder big enough to almost fit my forearm down, that's my biggest fear. The grinder would most likely suck your arm in and keep going. It is incredibly strong - strong enough to feed frozen strips of game, silver skin and all about 1.5" in diameter and never miss a beat. If the game is thawed, it just simply powers through it without even starting to slow down. I have to load up the tray, then start grinding because I can't keep up lifting from a bucket to the tray. Awesome unit, but pricey.

The reason I've got the LEM is that I bought a smaller rated High Country brand that I thought was a good deal (price) and it only went 15 minutes before electrical smoke started. And I wasn't even starting to put a load on the HC. Perhaps I got the Friday-of-a-long-weekend edition of the HC grinder; who knows. But seeing smoke after the initial 15 minutes didn't brew any confidence.

You get what you shell out for. I like the metal gears and strong motor of the LEM - too bad it's 70+ pounds. That's the only drawback.

J.
__________________
My $0.02.... Please feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-24-2017, 08:25 AM
TBark's Avatar
TBark TBark is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Sask, AB
Posts: 4,908
Default

I just bought an AO members 1 hp grinder.
Wanted to use it at the cabin with my Yammy 2000W, can handle 1500-1600W.
Math says the 1 HP draws 770W, so would it peak up to 1200-1400 while grinding ?
Haven’t tried it on the genny yet, but will be grinding at home on Sunday.

TBark
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-24-2017, 02:09 PM
Unregistered user Unregistered user is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobalong View Post
I bought this unit (1/2hp) a couple of weeks ago. We usually only do one or two animals a year and so far this unit has worked great. Feeds pretty fast just grinding, a bit slower for making sausage though. We did about 70 lbs of grinding this year and no "plugups" with the coarse cutting plate in. I see they have them on sale now.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...1267_200451267
I got 2 seasons out of that one and I was happy when it broke as it was so noisy. I've got 6 seasons on my LEM/Redhead #12 from Basspro, very good product. Cabelas have excellent ones too. I would have bought a Trespade #22 from CTR at the time but I knew someone who could get me a yooj discount at BP so there it went. To the OP, once you grind your own meat whether store-bought or hunted you won't go back to packaged ground. Treat yourself and buy a good one.
__________________
Former Ford Fan
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-25-2017, 06:52 AM
Dick284's Avatar
Dick284 Dick284 is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBark View Post
I just bought an AO members 1 hp grinder.
Wanted to use it at the cabin with my Yammy 2000W, can handle 1500-1600W.
Math says the 1 HP draws 770W, so would it peak up to 1200-1400 while grinding ?
Haven’t tried it on the genny yet, but will be grinding at home on Sunday.

TBark
The motor start-up draws a multiple of up to 6 times the normal operating power. That only last for a split second, but sometimes a portable generator's governor settings will raise hell with such starts. As for loading the motor, you won't load much higher than the nameplate rating.
__________________


There are no absolutes
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-25-2017, 02:00 PM
Opalsasquatch's Avatar
Opalsasquatch Opalsasquatch is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northeast of Edmonton
Posts: 427
Default

I read the OP and was going to post, but I see Dick has all the math, theory, and practical use covered!

I unfortunately make do with a grinding attachment on a kitchen mixer

Luckily Mrs. Opalsasquatch usually does the grinding while I'm trimming


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-26-2017, 03:59 PM
270 ELK 270 ELK is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 78
Thumbs up 270 elk

Got 1H Power from cabelas works great do all a person needs to do
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-26-2017, 04:18 PM
Iskra's Avatar
Iskra Iskra is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 827
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 270 ELK View Post
Got 1H Power from cabelas works great do all a person needs to do
That is what I have with matching 44 lb meat mixer.
My neighbour is grinding his game with #12 3/4 hp grinder from Princess Auto. He has made attachment so it runs meat mixer just like mine. Wife has gone thru 3 300W grinders, just for kitchen use so I have bought her that 3/4 hp from Princess Auto. It has reverse. $ 170.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-26-2017, 04:30 PM
Coiloil37's Avatar
Coiloil37 Coiloil37 is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,104
Default

I'm going to head out on a limb and say the difference between grinders that bog down and grinders that perfom like a champ is how much trimming the guy running it did.
I've got a crappy 400 watt grinder from princess auto and if I trim all the silver skin and fat out of my meat it'll grind it as fast as I can put meat in the hopper. If I'm lazy trimming it'll bog down and plug off in a hurry. Moral of my story, properly trim your meat and even a mid range grinder will he just fine.
I don't doubt a high end grinder will power through all that waste but your finished product won't taste as good.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-27-2017, 06:27 AM
Reeves1's Avatar
Reeves1 Reeves1 is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Westlock
Posts: 5,527
Talking

How many HP is my hand crank grinder ?


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:21 PM
John d John d is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 20
Default

Also the cheaper the motor is the worse the power factor is going to be
And heat soke of the motor
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:37 PM
Bourbon Outdoorsman Bourbon Outdoorsman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Great Plains
Posts: 138
Default

Get a 3/4 - 1 hp grinder (as close to industrial as you can) and you should be set for life, you pay more at the beginning but in the end you'll have something that will last for a long time.

My dad used to buy the cheapest thing from home hardware and crappytire and think he's getting a deal. But 1-1.5 years later when it burns out and he's buying a new one all over again.

Look into LEM, watson or cabela brands

Just my 2 cents
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:39 PM
vcmm's Avatar
vcmm vcmm is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vulcan Ab
Posts: 3,871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeves1 View Post
How many HP is my hand crank grinder ?


2 part time teenager power
__________________
"It's like bragging that it's 10 CENTIMETERS LONG! (when really, it's 4" dude, settle down)"
Huntinstuff


"Me neither but it's all in the eye of the beer holder"
norwestalta

.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!

LC

"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......

when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.

Go figure." -Huntinstuff
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-05-2018, 05:47 AM
Rastus Rastus is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 396
Default

I had a hand grinder and went with the Cabelas 3/4 HP, have NEVER looked back since, but we only do about 5 deer at a time. It just runs, no problem.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:30 PM
MyAlberta MyAlberta is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post
Horsepower(true power)
Watts(true power)
Volt amps(apparent power)

To get 1 horsepower output from a motor you will require more than 746 watts input, because there's no such thing as a 100% efficient motor.

So let's say you got a motor that's 90% efficient.
You'll need 746 watts input multiplied by the inverse of 90%.
(746x(1/.9))=829 watts.

Then there's the relation ship called power factor that all motors posses, which requires more current input to get a true power output.
Onna motor like you'd have on a grinder figure a powerfactor of about 0.8.

So 829 watts multiplied by the inverse of 0.8 equals (829x(1/.8))=1036 volt amps.
Volt amps divided by the supply voltage(single phase) equals the input current required.
1036/120=8.6amps.

All this math goes out the window if there's gears and the like involved, then there's the pitch of the grinder screw, and the sharpness of the grinder cutter blades, size of the grinder plate openings, and the amount of sinue and silverskin you feed the grinder.

FWIW, I get by with a 1/2HP Omcam grinder, which is one of the better models of semi proffesional design.
http://www.omcan.com/meatgrinders/smg50.html
Good to see your up on your motor theory, but a motors hp rating is based on its output, simple as that.

The HP rating is a fair approx of the machines thruput. Quality of a grinder typically lies in the blade/die. One that can hold its sharpness and not waste energy or meat quality in mashing as opposed to cutting.

Personally, I’d be looking for a good used commercial machine.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:46 PM
Dick284's Avatar
Dick284 Dick284 is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyAlberta View Post
Good to see your up on your motor theory, but a motors hp rating is based on its output, simple as that.

The HP rating is a fair approx of the machines thruput. Quality of a grinder typically lies in the blade/die. One that can hold its sharpness and not waste energy or meat quality in mashing as opposed to cutting.

Personally, I’d be looking for a good used commercial machine.
Good to see you're up on your reading comprehension.

I said exactly what you said.
__________________


There are no absolutes
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:18 PM
MyAlberta MyAlberta is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,416
Default

Cool, 2 votes for that then.

So, is peak a spec of value? I suppose it could indicate a motor type, but I would suggest that they are all similar, just not spec’d. But then again...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.