Pontoo Boat failures

[Don Andersen]

Folks,

Over the past number of years I and friends have had a number of frame failures on pontoon boats from various manufacturers.
I've had a Bucks and Outcast fail. Others have had Skeeters fail. You can reweld them and from my and Cody's experience, the welds fail.
The problem seems related to the poor design of the frame where the seat is attached by a butt weld. This type of weld is the poorest in terms of strength. If the frame is steel, a strap welded over the joint and tacked to both the side frame and seat frame should reduce the failure rate. Note the word - - SHOULD!!!
The failure will cause the pontoon to rotate making the oar on that side impossible to use. Further, the frame generally has three points of attachment. The seat frame + the back frame platform. Failure to install the back frame platform could cause the side frame to disconnect completely and you are swimming quick.

To understand the issue, I have attached some pictures

The picture below is seen from the bottom of the frame.



A close up of one of the failures.



A a view of the opposite side. Note it is cracked and about to fail.



Please check over your boats.

regards,


Don

[CenterPin]

I had this exact failure happen to my fishcat. I was a couple hours from town on a sat afternoon and with a little driving and conversations I found a farm repair shop. Somehow I ended up having it welded in the middle of nowhere from a shophand working a couple hours o.t. and back on the water in an hour lol. Scary situation though no doubt..

[greylynx]

Excellent Post as usual Don:

I have friends who continue to use steel coated pontoon boats that are almost 20 years old.

My old Leigh aluminum pontoon boat will never get into trouble. Ya right.

The pontoons on my boat are made of old truck tire inner tubes. I paid almost $800 bucks for that boat because pontoon boats were just coming out.

Oh boy

Don, thanks for the kick in the butt to start checking things out.

[chriscosta]

Anyone have any good ideas on a way to support them at these spots to lighten the stress on it and prevent this issue ... i have four of these boats and my kids and i use em regularly it would be scary if one of them had this happen

[ÜberFly]

Would spraying with a rust inhibitor paint help at all?

[hacman]

Had my fishcat for about 6 years now, no broken welds. Obviously not using it enough. Thanks for the heads up though, definitely will be inspecting it closer from now on.

[vital shok]

I would put a smaller pipe on the inside one and tig tack to the inside and maybe tig weld a bigger pipe on the outside I guess it's kind of hard to explain but it would not be that hard to reinforce those areas.Us welders might not be the brightest but we are very inovative lol just bring it to me I'll fix it.

[Don Andersen]

Folks,

What I should have added. I fish from the pontoon <> 95 days a year. I've got 14 days on it so far. I wear things out.
Painting didn't help. The heat effected zone of the weld failed. My boats are kept indoors when home.
As one fellow pointed out, a redesign and intelligent use of heavy walled Tees would have stopped the failure.
While steel will show weld failures through rust "lines" , aluminum will just fail w/o warning.

Regards,


Don

[Frozenflyguy]

Since you brought up the topic of frame failures... I have a lightly used (5 times) Skeeter frame for sale (perhaps as someones back up ??) ... because the bladders have failed in both pontoons and can't be repaired. I have tried to source replacement pontoons but have had no luck at all! Perhaps someone has had similar pontoon issues and found suitable 9-10' replacements?? please... anyone ? or as noted above I still have a frame for sale ...

Thanks in advance

FFG

[32-40win]

Have you checked whether or not it is a result of corrosion from the inside of the tubes causing the failure? I am thinking in terms of water sitting in there, and the location of the failure on the bottom of the tube. May have an outer coating, but I am pretty sure there is no form of rust preventative inside the tubes. And water does get in there while you are out in them, and takes a while to evap out probably. Over time, it could conceivably corrode thru on the edges of the weld areas.

[Don Andersen]

As I pointed out, the boat is stored indoors. No evidence of water flowing from the tubes. As I don't have access to a borescope, internal tube examination is not possible.
The design is the problem. There should be no need that a purchaser go through extraordinary efforts to internally examine metal parts.

Don

[Bigfeet]

Had a failure a few years ago with a Fishcat. I always check my pontoon boat every spring, for rust or any signs of problems. This particular spring, nothing much to see (as per usual), but I spray painted a little, with Tremclad, to be sure no rust started. First trip of the year, in the middle of a lake, I heard a noise and the seat of the boat tipped into the water, while the pontoon, on that side, stayed high. Both welds that held the middle frame to the pontoon frame, peeled away. I managed to grab that pontoon before it broke away completely, and keep the boat together enough that I could stay in my seat - but barely! I was in the middle of the lake, with no one in sight, so my only option was to slowly, and very carefully, fin to shore. Took some time to get into solid ground, but made it in.
Pretty scary really. I can't imagine what I would have done in flowing water, or it waves. I've never heard of that happening before. The boat basically fell apart once on dry land. I looked at the welds after, and the only signs I could see was rust inside the frame. Nothing to see on the outside.
Lesson: check your boat carefully and always be prepared to deal with an issue. And, maybe, buy only aluminum framed boats!

[CenterPin]

Frozenflyguy... there is a fishcat rep in Edm, that can help you out if its just the shell. Cant imagine a rip in the shell is any worse then my repair job of the entire 9ft. And the failure of the welds has everything to do with water constantly being inside the tubes. Theres cotter pins everywhere and water always in the frame, naturally right beside the welds where the 2 tubes connect is the weak spot. You wont see much till its too late cause it rusts from the inside out.

[32-40win]

Probably never see a drip on the floor by the time you get home, may notice water drops, when you pull it out of the water to load it up though. No shortage of ways for it to get in there. Which still leaves moisture inside of the tubes, that has to evaporate.
It will attack the area around the edge of the welds, and that is a stress point, so it will eventually fail. Being thin metal, it will take a few yrs, but, it will happen. I expect you will see it, if you were to section out the failed areas. Steel rad piping, exhaust, aluminum or steel fuel tanks, are items that suffer that issue also.

[Weedy1]

So the moral of the story is your pipes will get old and weak if you don't blow the moisture out of them.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

As I pointed out, the boat is stored indoors. No evidence of water flowing from the tubes. As I don't have access to a borescope, internal tube examination is not possible.
The design is the problem. There should be no need that a purchaser go through extraordinary efforts to internally examine metal parts.

Don

Contact manufacturer with your findings, after all a user such as yourself would be the the one they should listen too

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Contact manufacturer with your findings, after all a user such as yourself would be the the one they should listen too

Really....


Sent pictures to Fishing Hole where frame was bought. Waited 6 months - no action.

Called Outcast and sent them pictures - their response - new frame for $155.

regards,

Don

[greylynx]

Sort of like when the first belly boats came out.

The threads would rot out, and you would end up paddling to shore holding a fly rod between your teeth.

I like life jackets.

[Fish along]

I've been using my fish cat for quite some time now no issues though I'll be looking more closely now thanks.

[Fish along]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Really....


Sent pictures to Fishing Hole where frame was bought. Waited 6 months - no action.

Called Outcast and sent them pictures - their response - new frame for $155.

regards,

Don

I'm wondering if a new frame can be purchased for the fish cat, at the same price?

[Fish along]

Might be a good maintenance procedure to push an oil soaked brush Into the ends of the tubing onto the joints to help prevent rust.

[Fish along]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Sort of like when the first belly boats came out.

The threads would rot out, and you would end up paddling to shore holding a fly rod between your teeth.

I like life jackets.

If you'd been using an old bamboo fishing pole it would have floated ashore.lol

[Don Andersen]

Now I just gotta ask ya'.
You just bought a new car and you:

1) regularly swab the frame with oil
2) buy a extra frame expecting the new car frame to fail.

Or as has others suggested, X-Ray, mag particle, internal borescope or.... the existing frame.

OR DO YOU THINK THE MANUFACTURERS SHOULD DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME?

I do know which way I lean - was gonna say Vote but that apparently is a sore spot on this site this morning.

Don

[32-40win]

Realizing that you are not happy about it, how long did you run them before this happened? I wonder what life cycle a person should be expecting on them? 95 days a year is a fair bit of usage, up here, anyway.I also wonder a bit at what version boat you have, in as much as to ROI, for the money you invested, before this occurred on it. For a 5-600.00 Fishcat, 5 yrs is certainly a paid off boat, with that amount of usage, for me, I'd say fine, I'll go get another one, at that level. Say 4 hrs a day, 360+ /yr, 1800 hrs usage, is not bad at all. Even a 1500.00 boat is still pretty cheap usage.
Might be worthwhile taking a new frame and having it powder coated inside and out to slow it down for maybe 10yrs or more usage. Order it unpainted and have it done yourself, or check into building your own.