Against Seperation from Canada

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

The United States of Alberta.....it rolls off the tongue nice doesn’t it!

I would walk to the next city just to vote yes.

[BUSHRVN]

Originally Posted by Deezel

Give this a watch. We could really use someone like her in the drivers seat.

Don't know how bad things are in Alberta? Watch this & help me fight back

What we need is that UN pandering idiot removed from office. He, like his father, is anti-Alberta. He is enjoying every minute of killing our energy sector under the guise of UN commitments and the climate hoax.

She is awesome! She does need to be our Conservative leader and our next Prime Minister!

[TrollGRG]

We (Alberta) already have a hat for it. MAGA

[Osky]

No, stay what and who you are. As big as this country of mine is even bigger self imposed thunderstorms are on our horizon.
Your smart strong people. Find a way to change your situation with sound thought and unity. Beware emotion it is the enemy of common sense.
Stay strong, stay proud, be independent and most of all be Proudly Canadian.

Osky

[lmtada]

Canada 🇨🇦 has changed. Wexit is a symptom, of serious problems.

Canada 🇨🇦 is dying now and will at some point start to decay. Wexit is the current discussion but it is just a symptom, it is not the disease.

The disease lies in economics, demography, and geography. Canada is not a united population on any of these fronts, and everything is going against keeping it together.

A cowboy from Alberta or even the interior of BC has much more in common culturally with the folks in Montana or Idaho than he does with someone from Toronto. Even the land is more similar.

But it is the demographics and the resultant economics that will ruin our so-called nation. There is no way the government can fund the promises they have made to all the retirees in Ontario and Quebec, no matter how confiscatory they make the tax laws. This is the real reason the Trudeau government seems so desperate to raise taxes of all sorts and impose new ones. Some analyst with a spreadsheet made a graph and showed them what the next 20 years looks like. Unavoidable bankruptcy of the federal government.

Immigration won’t help, although it might back-fill for lost low skilled (and thus low paid) labor. The talent that is immigrating goes to the US, where they get treated better and have more opportunity.

Wind farms won’t help because they are too far away from markets.

Technology won’t help because the folks who can contribute to that end up in the US.

Everything is stacked against Canada, and it will die. It has only survived as long as it has the same way the Soviet Union did; by selling oil. But it seems like that has played out as well.

Wexist is but a symptom. The ship is going down and people are running for the life boats. It won’t happen quickly, but 20 years from now Canada will be a failed state, with what young talent we do have desperately trying to flee and the government unable to pay its bills.

Originally Posted by Osky

No, stay what and who you are. As big as this country of mine is even bigger self imposed thunderstorms are on our horizon.
Your smart strong people. Find a way to change your situation with sound thought and unity. Beware emotion it is the enemy of common sense.
Stay strong, stay proud, be independent and most of all be Proudly Canadian.

Osky

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

Which beliefs and values are those, and how are you being deprived of them now?

Conservative values and individual rights

Taxation of 50%+ is plain larceny and as we continue that number will continue to rise further out of control. We will be taxed even more and represented even less. What that’s saying about, “taxation without representation”?

Small efficient governments that spend conservatively. None and I mean none of our governments can balance a cheque book. The continual growth of government like a cancer will have every citizen a government employee soon. Would that be an employee of the government, or the state?

Personal choices. If I felt the need to donate money to say a Haiti hurricane relief fund that’s great. How is it a governments job to make that donation without asking me then tax it from me in a form of taxation.

Critical thought. Where government runs on the principal of sober second thought and does what’s best for the populace. Not self interest and the SJW flavour of the week.

Less intrusion of the law. Fewer laws and people’s freedom to choose good decisions. I never wore a bicycle helmet as a kid and I turned out ok. Illegal now. I can’t turn left at a green light almost anywhere in Edmonton anymore. You need a flashing arrow to turn left anywhere in Edmonton. There are laws that decide what colour your house can be. Hate to stick out in that sea of beige.

Less regulation on just about everything. When more city inspectors come to see my shed has vented soffit, even though soffit isn’t a requirement on my shed; then inspect the building of the henday there are problems. Why does my quad have to be registered annually when I can’t use it on a road?

There are many more. I moved to Alberta a long time ago as it was thebonly conservative refuge left in Canada. After Ralph retired this province has been run by liberals and socialists. Please liberals and socialists, let us have Alberta. You have all the rest of Canada. If you don’t like conservative Alberta you should just LEAVE. And leave me my one refuge in this country where I can feel politically accepted and comfortable.

[brslk]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

Remember what we thought of Quebec in the 90's. Well that what you all sound like now!

I'll tell you this, it certainly worked out well for them. The rest of Canada conceded to all of their demands in order to keep them from separating.

They couldn't give a damn what we thought of them and I don't give a damn what they think of us.

You might be OK with it, but I'm getting a little tired of the east keeping it's foot on the head of Alberta, holding it down while they prosper.

My take home pay is about half of what it was a few years ago and I know many people a lot worse off than me. They can't just sit on their thumbs and hope for things to get better. Ever hear the saying "hold out both hands. Put hopes and wishes in one and crap in the other, see which one fills up first".

I'm for separating, but not to join the US. At the very least, the serious threat of Alberta separating is a strong bargaining chip.

[Da'Newf]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

We live in the greatest country in the world (which has been proven statistically). I'm an Albertan, but I'm a Canadian first.

Did a Statistics course in university many years ago - main thing I took out of it was that stats are simply lying with numbers. Manipulate the questions to get the answers you want, or pick the data points that best represent what you want as well. Heck, that "50 Best Managed" BS that most companies claim that they are part of... the majority of that is based on forms filled out by the corporate offices of those companies - not based on legitimate unbiased surveys of the employees of those companies.

As for Quebec in the 90s vs Alberta currently... Rex Murphy had a pretty good article in the National Post a few weeks ago.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...re-not-whining

Alberta is under attack by Trudeau (and, I agree, by his puppet masters), and by this whole green/climate change epidemic. All these guest speakers are touting a whole pile of anti-Alberta propaganda. Why? Because there's plenty of foreign interests that benefit from this province going down the tubes and the resources here sitting idle until those foreign interests want the resources cheaply. Don't forget, Quebec is sitting a lots of resources. But as long as they don't develop them, they don't generate taxable money that would cause them to lose the "free" money that they get from equalization. Quebec got ****ed off that Newfoundland wouldn't renew that contract for the hydro power from Churchill Falls . So what did they do - took over the power industry in the other provinces so that Newfoundland had no other way to get power to American markets. Sound familiar?

Not sure how to get things turned around, but definitely got to deal with the naysayers, the anti-Alberta, and anti-Alberta oil and energy resources.

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you set the right criteria, you can make several countries out to be the best country in the world. Myself, I am an Albertan first, a Canadian second. I am proud to be from Alberta, not so proud to be Canadian, under the present government.

Pride in one's country, in my opinion, shouldn't hinge on the government that's in power. Did you no longer consider yourself a proud Albertan, or an Albertan at all for the period between 2015 and 2019?

Am I a supporter of the current government? No. I'm a supporter of democracy, the Canadian standard of living, Canadian history and Canada's contributions to the world.

[raab]

The benefit of leaving is that we can remain free. There’s a hard push towards government control, and the US will be one of the last to fall thanks to the founding fathers. Trudeau and his merry band of idiots won’t relinquish power easily and are setting the stage for their utopia by coming after gun owners, implementing a carbon tax, and consolidating power in Ottawa. We’re on a collision course to a authoritarian government unless people start looking after themselves and getting vocal about these horrible policies.

[Arachnodisiac]

This sounds more libertarian than conservative.

Curious, what do you think would happen to reproductive choice and marriage freedom if Alberta separated?

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Conservative values and individual rights

Taxation of 50%+ is plain larceny and as we continue that number will continue to rise further out of control. We will be taxed even more and represented even less. What that’s saying about, “taxation without representation”?

Small efficient governments that spend conservatively. None and I mean none of our governments can balance a cheque book. The continual growth of government like a cancer will have every citizen a government employee soon. Would that be an employee of the government, or the state?

Personal choices. If I felt the need to donate money to say a Haiti hurricane relief fund that’s great. How is it a governments job to make that donation without asking me then tax it from me in a form of taxation.

Critical thought. Where government runs on the principal of sober second thought and does what’s best for the populace. Not self interest and the SJW flavour of the week.

Less intrusion of the law. Fewer laws and people’s freedom to choose good decisions. I never wore a bicycle helmet as a kid and I turned out ok. Illegal now. I can’t turn left at a green light almost anywhere in Edmonton anymore. You need a flashing arrow to turn left anywhere in Edmonton. There are laws that decide what colour your house can be. Hate to stick out in that sea of beige.

Less regulation on just about everything. When more city inspectors come to see my shed has vented soffit, even though soffit isn’t a requirement on my shed; then inspect the building of the henday there are problems. Why does my quad have to be registered annually when I can’t use it on a road?

There are many more. I moved to Alberta a long time ago as it was thebonly conservative refuge left in Canada. After Ralph retired this province has been run by liberals and socialists. Please liberals and socialists, let us have Alberta. You have all the rest of Canada. If you don’t like conservative Alberta you should just LEAVE. And leave me my one refuge in this country where I can feel politically accepted and comfortable.

[liar]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

Pride in one's country, in my opinion, shouldn't hinge on the government that's in power. Did you no longer consider yourself a proud Albertan, or an Albertan at all for the period between 2015 and 2019?

Am I a supporter of the current government? No. I'm a supporter of democracy, the Canadian standard of living, Canadian history and Canada's contributions to the world.

i cant speak for everyone here but my concerns are not with the current political party . the bigger issue , i believe , is that the two eastern provinces hold a huge imbalance of power in the house . therefore , regardless of who is running the country , they will cater to this area if they want to get re-elected nest term . in other words , federal political parties will always do whats best for the area where they have the best chance of securing the most seats . and that is not alberta , sask, bc or manitoba . trudeau's arrogance and claims canada belongs to que has pushed people to the breaking point .

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

Pride in one's country, in my opinion, shouldn't hinge on the government that's in power. Did you no longer consider yourself a proud Albertan, or an Albertan at all for the period between 2015 and 2019?

Am I a supporter of the current government? No. I'm a supporter of democracy, the Canadian standard of living, Canadian history and Canada's contributions to the world.

Given the fact that the winning party received less votes than the losing party, are we really a democracy? And when one province receives special treatment, while other provinces have their economies destroyed by the rulers, why would I be proud? Canada was a great country, very well respected around the world, but that has changed as of late. Many countries are now laughing at us because of who we chose to lead us. That isn't something to be proud of. Our national anthem has been changed, we are losing our freedom of speech, and our media is being controlled, those aren't things to be proud of.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

This sounds more libertarian than conservative.

Curious, what do you think would happen to reproductive choice and marriage freedom if Alberta separated?

Yes there are libertarian beliefs there as well. But still beliefs that founded this province. Helping neighbours socially is welcome too of course.

Do you really think if Alberta separated either of those issues would really come to the forefront of issues? Lets say for a minute that we separate and the real issues at hand are solved and these do come to the table.

Do you really believe there are enough people today (or years from now) that care about gay marriage? I think the vast majority of people don't care about who people marry, we're just sick of BS equality issues shoved down our throats. Gay people are equal to straight people today; the war is over. Move on. The vast majority of people I would say have no problem with gay people, I think most people are sick of the 5873 different minority groups fighting over who exactly is MORE equal than the others.

As for abortion, you're right there is a large majority of Albertans that felt that if we talk Canada into separating then we can ban abortions. You found us out. Didn't think you woulda seen this coming.

Also, as this is in a thread about separation it could be construed as I meant separation; but my original quote was not so much about separation as it is to just leave Alberta as a conservative (lets call it politically right) refuge. I was asking the socialists and liberals to leave instead of me having to leave Canada as another poster requested.

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by liar

i cant speak for everyone here but my concerns are not with the current political party . the bigger issue , i believe , is that the two eastern provinces hold a huge imbalance of power in the house . therefore , regardless of who is running the country , they will cater to this area if they want to get re-elected nest term . in other words , federal political parties will always do whats best for the area where they have the best chance of securing the most seats . and that is not alberta , sask, bc or manitoba . trudeau's arrogance and claims canada belongs to que has pushed people to the breaking point .

Western alienation has existed in the past, exists in the present, and will likely exist in the future. Politics is entirely about winning reelection.

Ontario and Quebec hold 70% of seats while holding 61% of the population. An imbalance for sure, but the real imbalance is in the regional differences between voters. I don't suppose this conversation would be had if Ontario was a blue province.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Given the fact that the winning party received less votes than the losing party, are we really a democracy? And when one province receives special treatment, while other provinces have their economies destroyed by the rulers, why would I be proud? Canada was a great country, very well respected around the world, but that has changed as of late. Many countries are now laughing at us because of who we chose to lead us. That isn't something to be proud of. Our national anthem has been changed, we are losing our freedom of speech, and our media is being controlled, those aren't things to be proud of.

I am the first one to admit that the electoral system needs a re-tooling. There's little debate to be had there.

Canada consistently ranks near the top in terms of global reputation.

I can't say that the love and pride I have for my country has been compromised due to a change in the national anthem.

The issues that you've mentioned are more severe in the US.

[liar]

[QUOTE=pinelakeperch;4071740]Western alienation has existed in the past, exists in the present, and will likely exist in the future. Politics is entirely about winning reelection.

Ontario and Quebec hold 70% of seats while holding 61% of the population. An imbalance for sure, but the real imbalance is in the regional differences between voters. I don't suppose this conversation would be had if Ontario was a blue province .

even if ont was blue we would still have the same problem . all decisions made by parliament would still be to appease the area with the most seats and if its good for the west great , if not , too bad . the 32 or 34 seats in ab are never going to be game changers .
you are correct , this imbalance will likely exist in the future . that is what has people worked up . the only way to make this right would be to add seats in the other provinces , which would make no sense . or take seats away from the east and redistribute . if you are a politician and want to commit political suicide go to que and tell them that you are going to take some of their seats away and give them to ab to balance the house . so from my perspective , the future looks very bleak .

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

This sounds more libertarian than conservative.

Curious, what do you think would happen to reproductive choice and marriage freedom if Alberta separated?

I don’t think there would be much change to reproductive choice from what it is now.
And from my experience marriage isn’t freedom at all. LOL.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Yes there are libertarian beliefs there as well. But still beliefs that founded this province. Helping neighbours socially is welcome too of course.

Do you really think if Alberta separated either of those issues would really come to the forefront of issues? Lets say for a minute that we separate and the real issues at hand are solved and these do come to the table.

I do think they would. I joined the UCP because I liked one of the candidates for my riding so I was invited to join a bunch of conference calls where people could ask Kenny questions in the lead up to the provincial election. Things like the school GSAs came up EVRY SINGLE TIME. Watch the video of McIvor begging people at the first UCP AGM to drop the GSA issue from the top of the platform. They can’t help themselves.

Even though my preferred candidate managed to get the nomination at the last minute come the election I couldn’t do it. I still like him but the corrupt practices the party leadership indulged in are inconsistent with my ethics and the party rank and file behave like troglodytes when Kenny blows his little whistle. I was so hopeful at first.... this has been a significant disappointment.

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Also, as this is in a thread about separation it could be construed as I meant separation; but my original quote was not so much about separation as it is to just leave Alberta as a conservative (lets call it politically right) refuge. I was asking the socialists and liberals to leave instead of me having to leave Canada as another poster requested.

My family settled here before it was Alberta and your idea that we should be some sort of conservative utopia bothers me. I don’t really care how the government of the day aligns itself as long as it provides pragmatic, effective leadership. Wildly polarized team first politics undermines that and directly enables the kind of useless, corrupt posturing the current bunch seems to think is good governance. Is it really this crewor the NDP? If this is the best we have how do you build out a national government? The idea that the province could stand as its own nation in this situation is hilarious.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

This sounds more libertarian than conservative.

Curious, what do you think would happen to reproductive choice and marriage freedom if Alberta separated?

Don’t worry, you’ll still be able to zip tie your flag on your porch.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I do think they would. I joined the UCP because I liked one of the candidates for my riding so I was invited to join a bunch of conference calls where people could ask Kenny questions in the lead up to the provincial election. Things like the school GSAs came up EVRY SINGLE TIME. Watch the video of McIvor begging people at the first UCP AGM to drop the GSA issue from the top of the platform. They can’t help themselves.

Even though my preferred candidate managed to get the nomination at the last minute come the election I couldn’t do it. I still like him but the corrupt practices the party leadership indulged in are inconsistent with my ethics and the party rank and file behave like troglodytes when Kenny blows his little whistle. I was so hopeful at first.... this has been a significant disappointment.



My family settled here before it was Alberta and your idea that we should be some sort of conservative utopia bothers me. I don’t really care how the government of the day aligns itself as long as it provides pragmatic, effective leadership. Wildly polarized team first politics undermines that and directly enables the kind of useless, corrupt posturing the current bunch seems to think is good governance. Is it really this crewor the NDP? If this is the best we have how do you build out a national government? The idea that the province could stand as its own nation in this situation is hilarious.

can you dumb that down a bit? Lol

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I do think they would. I joined the UCP because I liked one of the candidates for my riding so I was invited to join a bunch of conference calls where people could ask Kenny questions in the lead up to the provincial election. Things like the school GSAs came up EVRY SINGLE TIME. Watch the video of McIvor begging people at the first UCP AGM to drop the GSA issue from the top of the platform. They can’t help themselves.

Even though my preferred candidate managed to get the nomination at the last minute come the election I couldn’t do it. I still like him but the corrupt practices the party leadership indulged in are inconsistent with my ethics and the party rank and file behave like troglodytes when Kenny blows his little whistle. I was so hopeful at first.... this has been a significant disappointment.



My family settled here before it was Alberta and your idea that we should be some sort of conservative utopia bothers me. I don’t really care how the government of the day aligns itself as long as it provides pragmatic, effective leadership. Wildly polarized team first politics undermines that and directly enables the kind of useless, corrupt posturing the current bunch seems to think is good governance. Is it really this crewor the NDP? If this is the best we have how do you build out a national government? The idea that the province could stand as its own nation in this situation is hilarious.

You realize that a GSA has zero to do with gay marriage rights don’t you? The idea of the GSA is one that I don’t necessarily agree with either. It’s not that I am against some form of aid to kids that need help; not at all. It’s the way the GSA’a are structured now I believe need changes for sure. The road to hell is paved with what again? My biggest problem with it is that parents should be aware that their child has joined. If there is an actual threat of physical violence there are many, many other government depts that rectify that already. Regardless, even if the UCP delegates want to discuss it, it sounds like the party already is done with it and wanted nothing to do with it; and I think the average albertans stopped caring about 15 years ago anyways. There’s no way marriage rights change.

I don’t think we should be a conservative utopia. Most of Canada was built on Christian conservative values with social community values added. Over time Alberta was the last bastion of these ideas and even now that is disappearing. Hard individual work broke the ground. You helped your neighbour in need and you spent what you had not what you might make; let alone a percentage beyond your best possible income. People used to mind their own business and you were free to do as you please.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ShortsideK

If it's so bad, why don't you just LEAVE?

Agreed.

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by ShortsideK

If it's so bad, why don't you just LEAVE?

Seventy five per cent departure tax.

[Arachnodisiac]

Comparatively, ALL Canadian provinces when founded were conservative. Indigenous people couldn’t vote or leave the reserves, women couldn’t vote or pursue higher education readily, healthcare was a spotty spit show, and so forth.

When would you dial the clock back to? What would you keep?

As for the fight being over, typically once social rights are legalized, there’s a pushback that makes life harder for a time. (Think of the civil rights movement.) just because something is legal on paper doesn’t mean everything is suddenly equal, unfortunately because the social space that legality technically creates still needs to be fought for tooth and nail in every day life.

And yeah - as an Albertan woman, I’d fight for my reproductive rights as hard as I’d fight to keep my guns.

Your Alberta isn’t everyone’s - and you aren’t any more entitled to determine what a valid Alberta is any more than any other resident.

The next decade will sure be interesting, at any rate.

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Yes there are libertarian beliefs there as well. But still beliefs that founded this province. Helping neighbours socially is welcome too of course.

Do you really think if Alberta separated either of those issues would really come to the forefront of issues? Lets say for a minute that we separate and the real issues at hand are solved and these do come to the table.

Do you really believe there are enough people today (or years from now) that care about gay marriage? I think the vast majority of people don't care about who people marry, we're just sick of BS equality issues shoved down our throats. Gay people are equal to straight people today; the war is over. Move on. The vast majority of people I would say have no problem with gay people, I think most people are sick of the 5873 different minority groups fighting over who exactly is MORE equal than the others.

As for abortion, you're right there is a large majority of Albertans that felt that if we talk Canada into separating then we can ban abortions. You found us out. Didn't think you woulda seen this coming.

Also, as this is in a thread about separation it could be construed as I meant separation; but my original quote was not so much about separation as it is to just leave Alberta as a conservative (lets call it politically right) refuge. I was asking the socialists and liberals to leave instead of me having to leave Canada as another poster requested.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

You realize that a GSA has zero to do with gay marriage rights don’t you?

I don't think it's likely the gentleman I heard railing on about the gays indoctrinating kids is ambivalent about same sex marriage.

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I don’t think we should be a conservative utopia. Most of Canada was built on Christian conservative values with social community values added. Over time Alberta was the last bastion of these ideas and even now that is disappearing. Hard individual work broke the ground. You helped your neighbour in need and you spent what you had not what you might make; let alone a percentage beyond your best possible income. People used to mind their own business and you were free to do as you please.

Hate to break it to you but you're describing Happy Days not Alberta.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

Comparatively, ALL Canadian provinces when founded were conservative. Indigenous people couldn’t vote or leave the reserves, women couldn’t vote or pursue higher education readily, healthcare was a spotty spit show, and so forth.

When would you dial the clock back to? What would you keep?

As for the fight being over, typically once social rights are legalized, there’s a pushback that makes life harder for a time. (Think of the civil rights movement.) just because something is legal on paper doesn’t mean everything is suddenly equal, unfortunately because the social space that legality technically creates still needs to be fought for tooth and nail in every day life.

And yeah - as an Albertan woman, I’d fight for my reproductive rights as hard as I’d fight to keep my guns.

Your Alberta isn’t everyone’s - and you aren’t any more entitled to determine what a valid Alberta is any more than any other resident.

The next decade will sure be interesting, at any rate.

Nope I don’t have more say than anyone else; you are right. But all the liberals, socialists, and wanna be conservatives have all of Canada as their political will. Well I think SK has actually moved more right in the last decade or so. Regardless, I’m just asking for one spot in the country to allow us to have our values reflected.

As for fighting after rights is nonsense. Once it’s on paper, you have all the rights as anyone else and the tools are there to enforce them. Continuous fighting to be MORE equal is what alienates causes from the average person.

Reproductive rights aren’t going anywhere. Anyone that bears that drum is fear mongering and absurd. The “Evil Harper” is way more conservative than Kenney or most politicians nowadays and he easily could’ve pushed it through. The fact of the matter is it’s a non issue. For every nut case that wants to change it, there are 75 people that want nothing to do with changes and another 19 carrying on about nothing; because it’s such a small voice of opposition. Maybe 5 people support the nit job for their own personal reasons yet don’t actively seek out the change. Your continuous fight for something that faces nonperil is wasted effort.

I am the most conservative person I know. I’m one of the most conservative person you will likely converse with. I have exactly zero interest in debating abortions or gay rights. The libertarian in me says it’s your construct of laws that caused these issues in the first place. When laws controll every aspect of your life, that’s when they interfere with your life.

As for when to turn the clock back to; I’ll take anytime. Realistically though, I’ll take the Ralph Klein years when gay marriage, and abortions were legal, women could vote and anything else you felt threatened by was a non-issue. I’d be happy with that. And apparently so could you.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I don't think it's likely the gentleman I heard railing on about the gays indoctrinating kids is ambivalent about same sex marriage.



Hate to break it to you but you're describing Happy Days not Alberta.

No sir. That’s not happy days. That’s what your 4 generations of family participated in building. If the nutcase was railing against a GSA it has nothing to do with marriage rights. As for indoctrination are you saying that it’s not happening? Are you sure it’s not possible that it’s happening? How can you guarantee what he says is wrong?

[Alberta Separatist]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Talking of leaving is stupid.
Talking of becoming more independent is smart.

Every time one of these we exit folks start talking, we loose $$$ in Alberta.

Though I understand the frustrations of everyone and agree that we might benefit from leaving confederation in the long long run. Today is about getting to work. Support Kenney in what he is doing, make a stink about the mistreatment of Alberta but for the love of God stop talking about leaving. It makes us all look stupid.

The status quo is totally unacceptable!

[Arachnodisiac]

I am not worried about reproductive rights in Canada. I would be, however, if separation occurred. Of course, I live in southern Alberta, and it’s a bit of a different world down here. I would hope the urban centres would be able to water the fundamentalism down, but it would really depend on so many things when the new new country was founded.

And yes, Klein was premier for one year of marriage equality - because it was federal law. Klein and the conservative government at the time absolutely opposed it. So it would be ridiculous to think that the possibility of a stand-alone Alberta would protect the same rights and freedoms that Canada does.

How many Alberta conservatives that live here now do you think would actively vote to ensure both of these rights remained protected? How do you envision an Alberta charter would be developed? In consultation? Democratically? By elected officials? By referendum?

I don’t have any confidence that these would be protected post separation.

And of course, there are plenty of other issues too, but these two are forefront in my mind given the current climate of politics in the south here.

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Nope I don’t have more say than anyone else; you are right. But all the liberals, socialists, and wanna be conservatives have all of Canada as their political will. Well I think SK has actually moved more right in the last decade or so. Regardless, I’m just asking for one spot in the country to allow us to have our values reflected.

As for fighting after rights is nonsense. Once it’s on paper, you have all the rights as anyone else and the tools are there to enforce them. Continuous fighting to be MORE equal is what alienates causes from the average person.

Reproductive rights aren’t going anywhere. Anyone that bears that drum is fear mongering and absurd. The “Evil Harper” is way more conservative than Kenney or most politicians nowadays and he easily could’ve pushed it through. The fact of the matter is it’s a non issue. For every nut case that wants to change it, there are 75 people that want nothing to do with changes and another 19 carrying on about nothing; because it’s such a small voice of opposition. Maybe 5 people support the nit job for their own personal reasons yet don’t actively seek out the change. Your continuous fight for something that faces nonperil is wasted effort.

I am the most conservative person I know. I’m one of the most conservative person you will likely converse with. I have exactly zero interest in debating abortions or gay rights. The libertarian in me says it’s your construct of laws that caused these issues in the first place. When laws controll every aspect of your life, that’s when they interfere with your life.

As for when to turn the clock back to; I’ll take anytime. Realistically though, I’ll take the Ralph Klein years when gay marriage, and abortions were legal, women could vote and anything else you felt threatened by was a non-issue. I’d be happy with that. And apparently so could you.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

I am not worried about reproductive rights in Canada. I would be, however, if separation occurred. Of course, I live in southern Alberta, and it’s a bit of a different world down here. I would hope the urban centres would be able to water the fundamentalism down, but it would really depend on so many things when the new new country was founded.

And yes, Klein was premier for one year of marriage equality - because it was federal law. Klein and the conservative government at the time absolutely opposed it. So it would be ridiculous to think that the possibility of a stand-alone Alberta would protect the same rights and freedoms that Canada does.

How many Alberta conservatives that live here now do you think would actively vote to ensure both of these rights remained protected? How do you envision an Alberta charter would be developed? In consultation? Democratically? By elected officials? By referendum?

I don’t have any confidence that these would be protected post separation.

And of course, there are plenty of other issues too, but these two are forefront in my mind given the current climate of politics in the south here.

You are muddying waters here. You asked what time of Alberta I would choose. That has zero to do with a separate country. Ralph Klein will never run a sovereign Alberta so you are arguing from a position that poses less than zero threat to your causes. You just asked me what time in Alberta history I would choose. I gave you a time where what you think is important and I think was important co-existed.

Hypothetically, you (conceivably you’d stick around) would be part of the sovereign state of Alberta. So would your peers. In your day to day life. Colleagues, friends, acquaintances, shopkeepers, etc that you converse with. Do you really think that the majority want to rail against gay marriage and abortion? Like I said, it’s a non-issue. It’s a dead horse. The average albertan doesn’t care if you or I were gay. The average albertan doesn’t care if you or I (well not me but say my wife) were to have an abortion. It’s not the lightning rod you think it is. These two positions exist only to scare people from the evil conservative parties. (Even though there is no real conservative parties left in Canada. But that’s a whole other discussion) It is nothing more than fear mongering. Harper could’ve abolished it if he chose to and in eleven years as him being PM it was brought up exactly zero times.

As to how the charter of rights were to be arranged I can’t tell you. I will say this though. If Alberta were to go through a democratic process to succeed from Canada do you truly believe we would turn into a dictatorship and allow the populace to lose control of their brand new country?

I do not mean to belittle your positions on gay marriage or abortion by any means. I don’t mean to diminish what it means to you at all. I just think you are wasting time, effort, and sanity to keep fighting for it. It’s done. It’s settled. If gay marriage is legal in Texas; it’s over. The war was won. Stand down soldier; your fight is done. I honestly believe in my heart the majority of albertans don’t oppose either. I know I don’t; and as stated I’m what many would consider WAY right.