G5 Montec tuning problems

[300WSM]

Anyone else run into this.

Had the practice heads(black not sharp) on, and was Robin Hooding arrows, switched to hunting broadheads and wow. The most inconsistent, brutally large groups, darting, etc. I've ever seen, thank god the target is 2' by 2'.

The only difference in the two set ups is I'm running luminocks on my hunting setup and regular nocks on my practice. Everything else is the same.

Any ideas?

[Trav]

try your hunting with your reg nocks I would bet that something is not lining up properly
some people have great success with the lumenoks but others have not had much luck with them.

You will have to experiment and see what goes best for your set up
The lumenoks might be adding to much weight to the back end of the arrow and causing probs

[CNP]

If you spin your arrows (on a spinner) and the arrow/broadhead spins true......it's not the fault of your broadheads. It is something else.

Arrow related (spine, fletching, BH, FOC), bow related (fletch clearance, knock travel, centre shot in the vertical and horizontal) or you related (form/hand induced torque)

Like Trav says.....start with the lumenoc. Too easy to eliminate or confirm that one.

[300WSM]

Ehntr

Would spine be affected as the points are the same, one is just dull?

As for hand/torque problems I shoot the same all the time. That used to be a problem but it was remedied years ago.

I also don't thing it's a clearance issue as I run a muzzy drop away rest, never had a problem in the past.

The only thing I can see different is the nocks but would the nock throw an arrow off 5 - 8 inches?

Thanks

[Mountain Guy]

Boy, that's a weird one ??
You wouldn't think there'd be that much difference between the nocks.
The lumenoc's are probably heavier but.....

Did you double check the weight of the broadheads ?
Maybe there was a mix up with packaging and you shooting different grains.

I seem to see lots of mix up's these days with all sorts of things.

I'll be shooting 100gr. montec's ( once I get my new bow tuned ) and I do have both the practice and hunting heads.

I'll report back when done.

[300WSM]

Yes please do.

Like I said the practice heads flew unbelievably good right out of the package, hunting heads...... not so good!

The only diff I see is the nocks, but I would not have expected them to affect the arrows that much.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by 300WSM

Ehntr

Would spine be affected as the points are the same, one is just dull?

As for hand/torque problems I shoot the same all the time. That used to be a problem but it was remedied years ago.

I also don't thing it's a clearance issue as I run a muzzy drop away rest, never had a problem in the past.

The only thing I can see different is the nocks but would the nock throw an arrow off 5 - 8 inches?

Thanks

Spine is probably not the prob considering that the practice heads work fine.

I suspect your BH's are either wobbling (not spinning true) or the knock is the cause. What have you done to confirm this? Spin the arrow. Does it spin true? If it doesn't it won't fly. Take the knock off and put on a std knock....try that. Take the BH off and put it on another arow...try that.

[300WSM]

Will spin them tonight, could only think BH's are not tight as I add dental floss for adjustment

Knock problem is an easy test will report tomorrow.

[cooter 1]

The same thing with me would not group ,and I was useing my hunting arrows with out the elluminocks. Put back on my vortex broad heads and bull eye one after the other

[CNP]

Originally Posted by cooter 1

The same thing with me would not group ,and I was useing my hunting arrows with out the elluminocks. Put back on my vortex broad heads and bull eye one after the other

I'll have to say that it wasn't the fault of the Montec's. They are a premium BH. Switching back to a mechanical BH may have fixed your problem......but the underlying problem is that there is something else wrong......the mechanicals fly better only because they have less surface area exposed. I'd say your Montec's were not spinning true or your centre shot (vert/horiz) is out.....could be something else though......process of elimination......................that's how I see it.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by 300WSM

Will spin them tonight, could only think BH's are not tight as I add dental floss for adjustment

Knock problem is an easy test will report tomorrow.

re dental floss for adjustment.................are you saying you use dental floss on the threads of the BH? I can see that causing your BH's to wobble....not being able to properly seat on the insert.

[stand junkie]

we also had that same problem last year what we ended up doing is turning the BH 1/6 of a turn on each arrow till they would fly right marking them then locktight the BH into the insert and let sit. Also found that out of 12 BH and 12 new arrows we would have maybe six that would fly just right when done.

[cooter 1]

Originally Posted by ehntr

I'll have to say that it wasn't the fault of the Montec's. They are a premium BH. Switching back to a mechanical BH may have fixed your problem......but the underlying problem is that there is something else wrong......the mechanicals fly better only because they have less surface area exposed. I'd say your Montec's were not spinning true or your centre shot (vert/horiz) is out.....could be something else though......process of elimination......................that's how I see it.

you were saying process of elimination ,I eliminated the g5s and problume fixed. If they are that fussy of a broadhead and it seems that I was not the only one that ran into trouble with them are they worth the greif

[jaybull]

They shoot very good out of my bow.Up to 60 yards no prob.I think you should try them on your practice arrows and see if its them nocks.good luck.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by cooter 1

you were saying process of elimination ,I eliminated the g5s and problume fixed. If they are that fussy of a broadhead and it seems that I was not the only one that ran into trouble with them are they worth the greif

Process of elimination...................eliminate the BH's.

[300WSM]

Ok, spun them last night, spin straight and true.

Shot both types of nocks; no change out to 20 yrds ( the changes I did see are probably shooter related.

20-30 noticed them started tailing/veering.....haven't went further distance as it will only make me more confused.

Ehntr: yes I put dental floss between head and insert 1 strand all the way around (even), I found that it allows me that extra bit of turn for adjustment. Never ever had a problem in the past, and like stated above they spin true.

Switching to mechanicals is not an option as mechanicals IMO "useless for my purposes"

[boo]

Not to hijack the thread but I'd like to hear if it was the nocks, or if anyone else has had positive or negative results as I was planning to switch to them.

[Mountain Guy]

Did you confirm the weights were the same?
You didn't say what gr. your shooting.
ie: if your practice heads are 85 and your hunting are 125 the spine would be out.
you have to eliminate that possibility as well.

[300WSM]

Don't know if I can measure that fine, my scales are all big. Package advertising is the same 100g ( I know it could be wrong, but on the average I would say they are right.)

[nekred]

Lumenocks are much heavier and the FOC and dynamc spine of arrow could be affected.... which can change tune...

let's look at facts.... which is more likely to be inconsitant....

Broadheads usually just exaggerate bad tuning, and archer error,

very rare there is a bad broadhead....

FOC is very critical on arrows as that creates more stability than the fletch (which is why you can bare shaft tune!)

[300WSM]

Ok boys and girls

Did the FOC calculations and here we are:

100 gr montecs @ 9.82%
125 gr montecs @ 12.8%

To me this is foreign, but have read for hunting I should have between 10 - 15% FOC, is that correct?

I want to run lit nocks so it has to be the heads that get adjusted. So which ones am I sending back?

As for shooting cannot comment at all ranges since it has been crappy and windy out. It wouldn't be a truly accurate test. At 20 yrds in the basement both are equal (if that helps)

I guess I need a starting point the rest I'll fine tune. Changing arrows is not in the cards either now.

Thanks for the help in advance on this post it has been greatly appreciated. Thnx

Boo: the only down side I have to these nocks (lumi nocks) is the added weight and non-replaceable batteries. I think I'll look at the G5 as I am not into building my own and replaceable batteries is a plus. To me cost is not an option for nocks (2 cents) if they work repeatedly.

[russ]

Change back only what you've changed in the recipe. Nock groove fit, nock thickness & nock position on the clock will all have a bearing on the problem. Also e-hunter has pointed out another important aspect to arrow tuning. Spin testing the heads AND the nocks. It could be your new nocks a/o broadheads aren't straight enough. You need to see .001-.002" tolerances here. As far as FOC goes, it's pretty much over rated for 99% of hunting situations so I think it's a red herring. I will agee that the spine would change with the nock change.