12G Sabot Slugs / Charging Bears

[Kako]

Hi,

I always hike with a group of people and we always carry bear spray.

Shooting the animal is always a last resort but in the event I need to I am curiouse to know if a 12g Sabot slug would have the stopping power for a charging bear at 25-50 yards.

I purchased a Mossberg 835 which has a field barrel and it also came with a 24" long rifled barrel.

I have been doing some reading and people say only Sabot Slugs should be used Ina rifled barrel. Unsure if this is true or not.

In Alaska it seems they use 12g for bear protection but I am they use rifled slugs. So how effective are the Sabot Slugs?

Thanks for the input in advanced!

[Big Grey Wolf]

F & W were practicing with shorter 12 gauge shot guns and slugs at our shooting range a few months back. That was their go to guns for dealing with problem bears, not sure which slugs they were using, forgot to ask. My guess any slug coming out of 12 gauge will do the job.

[Ithaca Dog]

You need a rifled barrel for sabots. They will just tumble out of a smooth bore. I'd skip the sabots and use challenger slugs. Hard lead. Good design and good penetration. Foster slugs are powerful but can lack penetration. I bought some Rotweil slugs a few years back and carry those and challengers. Brenneke slugs are great if you can find them.

Your 24" rifled barrel will handle any and all slugs including the sabots. But. You are not throwing as big of a chunk of lead at them. Most sabot slugs are .50 caliber, I believe, at shotgun velocity. Great for accuracy. Not as much knock down power as the 1oz or 1 1/8 oz hunk of lead you find in the other slugs.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/c...-1754541p.html

[Ithaca Dog]

And don't bother with 3" slugs. Much more recoil and at spitting distance putting rounds down range accurately and quickly is better than a bit more power.
2 3/4" shells are more than enough at short ranges. Just my opinion. You will likely never use them if you keep your wits about you and are bear aware. If you do need them though you will need them bad.

[Kako]

Hey, thanks for the link.

Those slugs wouldn't damage the barrel rifling?

So I am not only limited to sabots?

Originally Posted by Ithaca Dog

You need a rifled barrel for sabots. They will just tumble out of a smooth bore. I'd skip the sabots and use challenger slugs. Hard lead. Good design and good penetration. Foster slugs are powerful but can lack penetration. I bought some Rotweil slugs a few years back and carry those and challengers. Brenneke slugs are great if you can find them.

Your 24" rifled barrel will handle any and all slugs including the sabots. But. You are not throwing as big of a chunk of lead at them. Most sabot slugs are .50 caliber, I believe, at shotgun velocity. Great for accuracy. Not as much knock down power as the 1oz or 1 1/8 oz hunk of lead you find in the other slugs.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/c...-1754541p.html

[Ithaca Dog]

If you shoot a lot the barrel will lead up and need to be cleaned. Just keep it clean and you will be fine. I always shot foster style slugs out of my rifled barrel and had good accuracy. Killed a lot of deer with them out to 125 yards.

Non-Saboted slugs work fine in rifled barrels. You get better accuracy with sabots, but you are looking at shot range bear protection.

A regular smooth bore shotgun with a bead will be surprisingly accurate with regular foster slugs out to 75 yards.

[Kako]

Okay thanks for the info.

Keeping it clean!

Originally Posted by Ithaca Dog

If you shoot a lot the barrel will lead up and need to be cleaned. Just keep it clean and you will be fine. I always shot foster style slugs out of my rifled barrel and had good accuracy. Killed a lot of deer with them out to 125 yards.

Non-Saboted slugs work fine in rifled barrels. You get better accuracy with sabots, but you are looking at shot range bear protection.

A regular smooth bore shotgun with a bead will be surprisingly accurate with regular foster slugs out to 75 yards.

[nimrod]

I just wish Dragon Breath shells were available in Canada

Check out this site, to see what US has for bear protection.

https://wolfhillammo.com

Just wish some stores in Canada would bring in theses shot gun rounds.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by nimrod

I just wish Dragon Breath shells were available in Canada

Check out this site, to see what US has for bear protection.

https://wolfhillammo.com

Just wish some stores in Canada would bring in theses shot gun rounds.

I'd argue they're too short lived to be effective. I like 00 Buck, no need to be so precise and at short range just as effective.

Grizz

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

I'd argue they're too short lived to be effective. I like 00 Buck, no need to be so precise and at short range just as effective.

Grizz

Bingo

[Smoky buck]

Slug will work great if you can actually make a lethal hit on a fast moving charging bear bouncing over the terrain

[bdub]

Quite a while ago we had issues in a remote camp I was working out of in NE BC with black bears one spring. The cooks had been throwing used grease in the incinerator all winter and it was leaking out all over on the ground. Come spring we were invaded by black bears. They were getting under camp and getting dangerous. We killed several with these slugs. None were charging however but the results were impressive nonetheless. All that me and my bud shot crumpled at the shot. Due to our troubles they (F&W) required all camps to be fenced after that year.

[Kako]

Which slugs? The sabots or the rifled?

Originally Posted by bdub

Quite a while ago we had issues in a remote camp I was working out of in NE BC with black bears one spring. The cooks had been throwing used grease in the incinerator all winter and it was leaking out all over on the ground. Come spring we were invaded by black bears. They were getting under camp and getting dangerous. We killed several with these slugs. None were charging however but the results were impressive nonetheless. All that me and my bud shot crumpled at the shot. Due to our troubles they (F&W) required all camps to be fenced after that year.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Kako

Which slugs? The sabots or the rifled?

We were using the foster style slugs if i recall, thats what I used anyway. My bud may have used sabot ones but I don’t recall.

[Tactical Lever]

Kind of a long, bulky gun for hiking. Did you get it mainly for protection? Where are you hiking? Would grizzly be a concern?

[Kako]

Primary use for waterfowl. It did come with a rifled barrel and it was not intended for protection.

I have had minimal encounters with grizzly & black bears and they have always scooted away. *Knock on wood.

Only one time I was a little worried as it was a little too curious and kept following.

The rifled barrel would be for deer.

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Kind of a long, bulky gun for hiking. Did you get it mainly for protection? Where are you hiking? Would grizzly be a concern?

[270person]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Slug will work great if you can actually make a lethal hit on a fast moving charging bear bouncing over the terrain

While you're crapping your shorts.

[fordtruckin]

Here in Montana we use regular 870police magnum shotguns. Our Current load out is just the cheap 2-3/4” Remington 1 ounce slug. I use the shotgun to put down everything from deer to bison. I have other firearms available from my .40 s&w to 22lr to a 308 rifle to 375h&h. Shotgun works just as well and is generally the quickest to grab except my pistol of course but I use that only on deer and coyotes. Granted I did shoot a bear with one this summer.

[7magtime]

Back when I worked in Forestry years ago, my bear protection rig was a rifled 870 with 3” magnum sabot slugs. I carried it more for a backup to bear spray but I will say it was potent when needed. When things go sideways and you need protection at close range I’ll take it any day over a rifle....

[Big Grey Wolf]

Combination of buck and slugs best medicine for charging bear! Fordtruckin, has lots of real world experience and his advice should be respected.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Kako

Primary use for waterfowl. It did come with a rifled barrel and it was not intended for protection.

I have had minimal encounters with grizzly & black bears and they have always scooted away. *Knock on wood.

Only one time I was a little worried as it was a little too curious and kept following.

The rifled barrel would be for deer.

Most of the time they'll head the other way pretty quick. Both types. For grizzly the buck shot would give me pause, but for black bear at 15 yards where it would start to open would probably be ideal for head shots and spine/neck shots, though the chances of an instant stop if all you hit is "neck" is lower for individual buck.

Bought the wife a Ranch Hand, installed a full length butt stock, took out the rear sight elevator, and notched the rear sight slightly deeper to get it to shoot to point of aim. In .44 Magnum, and I load shells a little light for it, more or less in between .44 Special, and full power. Mostly due to muzzle blast.

If you pick up a lever action or bolt action, you'll find that the action is about 4 inches shorter than an enclosed pump, or semi auto. My Marlin 45-70 with 18.5" barrel was only a hair longer than the 12 gauge pump I had with a 14" barrel. For back packing and hiking, picking up an 1892 style lever action with 18" barrel for example will save you about 10" and hold more ammo, which can be handy. It would pack a little easier and fit in a back scabbard as well. Sixteen inch barreled guns are nice, but hard to find. Not sure about the current production quality (heard it's better now, than when Marlin first changed hands), but Marlin makes a youth 30-30 with slightly shorter stock, and 16" barrel. Been kind of tempted to pick one up.

Of course the short Rossi guns are really handy, the Turkish pumps with short barrels are pretty handy also. Picked up a little 20 gauge break open for a "rambling gun" from Swamp Donkey. Seems to be made well and with a 13" (IIRC) barrel, and short action, it's very small. They are available in 12 gauge, .410, and with longer barrels as well. The 20"(?) barreled guns are very handy also, as a break open is a very short action.

[W921]

We have more grizzlies than ever. Im not sold on the whole shotgun thing even with slugs.

Under the right circumstances a 300 magnum can feel like a little toy that you would give to a little kid to play with.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by W921

We have more grizzlies than ever. Im not sold on the whole shotgun thing even with slugs.

Under the right circumstances a 300 magnum can feel like a little toy that you would give to a little kid to play with.

I have been involved in multiple grizzly hunts and have lived and worked in areas with much higher grizzly numbers than Alberta. Majority of the fear with grizzly and the bullet proof stories are well beyond hyped up. They do demand respect but encountering a grizzly is not a big deal. I have been involved in hunts as the hunter and back up. Grizzly died just the same with a 270 as they did with a 338.

A 12ga with slugs or a mix of 00 and slugs is a very common recovery too for guides in thick bush. It works and slugs hit hard at close range

[58thecat]

Remember this is close in work so short barrel, easier to transport, 30 yards or less 2 3/4 slugs will do just fine as long as you do yours...that is key many pack these but hardly ever practice with it same as bear spray....bought it, got it but have you used it and did your best to familiarize yourself with it?

your gonna burn through a couple hundred bucks and sometime attempting to become efficient with both a shotty and bear spray just to have a hope and prayer the bear lets off on its charge and you even see it coming.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I have been involved in multiple grizzly hunts and have lived and worked in areas with much higher grizzly numbers than Alberta. Majority of the fear with grizzly and the bullet proof stories are well beyond hyped up. They do demand respect but encountering a grizzly is not a big deal. I have been involved in hunts as the hunter and back up. Grizzly died just the same with a 270 as they did with a 338.

A 12ga with slugs or a mix of 00 and slugs is a very common recovery too for guides in thick bush. It works and slugs hit hard at close range

yup when I as up in Alaska we just gave them space and respect...there was always another bend in the river to fish.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

yup when I as up in Alaska we just gave them space and respect...there was always another bend in the river to fish.

I don’t get why some people are so worried about grizzly and they likely see a handful a year at the most. I did as you out fishing gave them space and respect

Some places running into grizzly is just part of going out camping, fishing and hunting. I don’t recommend trying to go up and pet them but they are not the worry many make them out to be

[W921]

Wolves are the devil,bears not so much yet. But if you have a grizzly breaking into your grain bin every night or if its literally camped out with your cows you got to run it off. Then they come right back in a few days.
There is a lot of grizzly/rancher conflicts that you don't hear about because its no good to say anything because everybody is going to be on the bears side. Fish and game ain't going to help you. They would just keep an eye on you to make sure you don't do anything.
Stuff just seems way bigger up close. Even bigger in the dark. Just a stupid black bear can go quite fast for 50 yards if hit solid (heart or lungs)from a 30/06. So if your within feet of a grizzly and. It turns. I'm thinking anything less than brain or spine ain't going to end well? I would personally feel better with a bigger gun. Everything don't happen in the open during the day. But yeah I know W.D.M. Bell killed hundreds of elephants with a 7mm Mauser.
I have never been around a grizzly and wished I had a smaller rifle.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Most dangerous situation with grizz now is him trying to take your kill away from you. We have way more grizz than we had 50 years ago in Alberta.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by W921

Wolves are the devil,bears not so much yet. But if you have a grizzly breaking into your grain bin every night or if its literally camped out with your cows you got to run it off. Then they come right back in a few days.
There is a lot of grizzly/rancher conflicts that you don't hear about because its no good to say anything because everybody is going to be on the bears side. Fish and game ain't going to help you. They would just keep an eye on you to make sure you don't do anything.
Stuff just seems way bigger up close. Even bigger in the dark. Just a stupid black bear can go quite fast for 50 yards if hit solid (heart or lungs)from a 30/06. So if your within feet of a grizzly and. It turns. I'm thinking anything less than brain or spine ain't going to end well? I would personally feel better with a bigger gun. Everything don't happen in the open during the day. But yeah I know W.D.M. Bell killed hundreds of elephants with a 7mm Mauser.
I have never been around a grizzly and wished I had a smaller rifle.

Oh I understand they can cause a lot of trouble. I have heard plenty of stories and how they get dealt with by a farmer from Bella coola where they are like a plague. I also no my fair share of ranchers with problems in BC. and I know issues go on hear in Alberta.

I also have no lack of experience as a bear hunter and your right a well hit black can easily go 50 yards hit by a 30-06 but I haves seen the same with big magnums too. The only way to prevent that is changing shot placement. But let’s be honest if we are talking charging bear your not going to be fancy. It’s aim centre for centre of mass and pray

As for a 12ga with a slug power wise test one out at close range it’s a big chunk of lead

[W921]

There is a book, I think its called nothing to good for a cowboy. About these guys back in the thirties that started the frontier cattle company in your Bella Colla country. I've looked it up on the map and they have since turned it into a park where I don't think you can hunt but what a story. Bears!!!!! And the moose sounded even worse haha chasing them on their horses. I don't know if the book was all true but it sure made me want to pack in there and see that country.