Lake Lot- Shallow Well Question

[brendon444]

Hey looking for some advice,

Looking to install a shallow water well on a vacant lake lot. Will be digging the well in with a small excavator 15-18ft and using a 36" casing.

Can I use a small 1/2hp submersible deep well pump instead of a jet pump? This will allow me to install a bleed orifice just below the pitless adapter allowing the water to bleed back into the well when I turn the power off to the pump and opening a faucet and drains in the cabin. Ease of priming and draining when visiting the cabin in the winter.

Plan on insulating the water supply line with PVC pipe wrap insulation from acklanks and bringing it up under the crawl space. Will this be sufficient if the crawl space is heated and insulated.

Also should I insulate the main sewer line to the septic tank which will also come up under the crawl space? Technically should never have water left in it but I was thinking of also using a PVC pipe wrap insulation.

Any suggestions?

[brendon444]

Also thought of using a 6' length of 6" PVC pipe with holes in the side and installing the submersible pump in it with a torque arrester, similar to installing in a conventional deep well casing. This will keep the pump off the bottom of the well, limit starting torque and supply cooling flow around the motor.

I have never done this before but just my thoughts and hoping this will work.

[liar]

i dropped a sub in a remote well this summer . i took out the check valve that was in the discharge of the pump so all the water drains back through the pump to prevent freezing . seems to be working ok so far , it just takes a minute or so to pressure everything up again after shutting off .

[brendon444]

Originally Posted by liar

i dropped a sub in a remote well this summer . i took out the check valve that was in the discharge of the pump so all the water drains back through the pump to prevent freezing . seems to be working ok so far , it just takes a minute or so to pressure everything up again after shutting off .

Thought about doing that, wondering if it would be to hard on the pump or lines constantly draining and re-pressuring through out the time the well is on. Does your well pump constantly cycle on and off? or stay on.

[liar]

i am watering pasture grass with it . i start a genset and the pump runs till the generator runs out of gas . i put in a small brass relief valve from the local hardware and it relieves back down the well to maintain 75 psi to the sprinklers . i dont have a pressure system .
like i said , i just set this up this summer , so i dont know what the long term results will be with the pump running constantly .

[benamen]

When I purchased our cabin 14 years ago, it had a 30ft well with 30" casing. The pump that was installed was a 1/2 hp submersible. Pump is held off the bottom with a poly rope tied on top of the well to the safety bars. 3 inches of styrofoam installed on top of the safety bars. This well and pump still services the cabin today. The supply line tees(drain back valve located here) approx 3 ft from the surface and runs horizontally (sloped back to the well) 30 ft to the cabin. The 1 inch supply line was run inside of 3 inch plastic, then bends vertically through 2 ft of uninsulated space and into the cabin. The crawl space was ventilated but insulated and contained one electric baseboard heater. All water lines in the cabin were sloped towards a couple of valves. One for hot and one for cold. All sewage line run through crawl space and all traps had drain caps. Main cabin was heated by wood stove in livingroom and we used portable electric heaters to supplement.
1) supply line would freeze in the horizontal portion in extreme cold due to its limited depth. I ran a heat tape along the line and covered with foam insulation. If it is cold I plug the heat tape in. No freeze ups in that section since.
2) supply line under the tee and drain valve in well would freeze in extreme cold. Previous owner had a 120 volt heater hung below safety bars. I used this setup for a few years but it might take hours to thaw the line. I dropped a 6 foot piece of heat tape inside the supply line inserted from the tee. Now it takes 5 minutes to thaw that portion of line. I used a remotely switch plug in to turn the heat tape on and off. Only turn this tape on until the line thaws.
3) I closed in the crawl space. Makes the floor much more comfortable.
4) sloping the water lines worked very well. Had one issue with supply to toilet showing a bulge but it did not leak before I repaired it. I always drained the supply line back to the well and opened the valves in the crawl space to drain the cabin. Open a tap or two to ensure proper drainage.
5) all sewage lines were run through the crawl space with no insulation on them. I never had a freeze up with them until I installed a 95% efficiency furnace. After furnace install, had the line entrancing the septic freeze up twice. Now I drain the condensate elsewhere.
6) I drained toilet bowl and basin and used RV antifreeze in them and the 4 other ptraps. Used 4 litres each time.

I installed a furnace 3 years ago and now heat the cabin year round. I have electric baseboard heaters in the crawl space and two construction heater in the main cabin for back up. I am able to check temperature of the cabin remotely.

Hope this insight helps you with your installation.


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[brendon444]

Originally Posted by benamen

When I purchased our cabin 14 years ago, it had a 30ft well with 30" casing. The pump that was installed was a 1/2 hp submersible. Pump is held off the bottom with a poly rope tied on top of the well to the safety bars. 3 inches of styrofoam installed on top of the safety bars. This well and pump still services the cabin today. The supply line tees(drain back valve located here) approx 3 ft from the surface and runs horizontally (sloped back to the well) 30 ft to the cabin. The 1 inch supply line was run inside of 3 inch plastic, then bends vertically through 2 ft of uninsulated space and into the cabin. The crawl space was ventilated but insulated and contained one electric baseboard heater. All water lines in the cabin were sloped towards a couple of valves. One for hot and one for cold. All sewage line run through crawl space and all traps had drain caps. Main cabin was heated by wood stove in livingroom and we used portable electric heaters to supplement.
1) supply line would freeze in the horizontal portion in extreme cold due to its limited depth. I ran a heat tape along the line and covered with foam insulation. If it is cold I plug the heat tape in. No freeze ups in that section since.
2) supply line under the tee and drain valve in well would freeze in extreme cold. Previous owner had a 120 volt heater hung below safety bars. I used this setup for a few years but it might take hours to thaw the line. I dropped a 6 foot piece of heat tape inside the supply line inserted from the tee. Now it takes 5 minutes to thaw that portion of line. I used a remotely switch plug in to turn the heat tape on and off. Only turn this tape on until the line thaws.
3) I closed in the crawl space. Makes the floor much more comfortable.
4) sloping the water lines worked very well. Had one issue with supply to toilet showing a bulge but it did not leak before I repaired it. I always drained the supply line back to the well and opened the valves in the crawl space to drain the cabin. Open a tap or two to ensure proper drainage.
5) all sewage lines were run through the crawl space with no insulation on them. I never had a freeze up with them until I installed a 95% efficiency furnace. After furnace install, had the line entrancing the septic freeze up twice. Now I drain the condensate elsewhere.
6) I drained toilet bowl and basin and used RV antifreeze in them and the 4 other ptraps. Used 4 litres each time.

I installed a furnace 3 years ago and now heat the cabin year round. I have electric baseboard heaters in the crawl space and two construction heater in the main cabin for back up. I am able to check temperature of the cabin remotely.

Hope this insight helps you with your installation.


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Great insight,

Sounds like the submersible pump should work. I am going to try and install the pitless adapter (tee portion) deep, 6-8' which should be below the frost line and insulate the line running horizontal at 6-8' and then not go vertical till under the crawl space. Planning to dig the well where the run will be as short as possible hopefully. I like the idea of sleeving the supply pipe. Will allow future heat trace to be installed.

Makes sense that the septic line would freeze with a constant slow drip of condensate. I will insulate with pipe wrap.

I seen they make insulated casing plugs to install or I will somehow insulate the casing lid with a type of plug. May have to use that to keep the frost from going down the casing and freezing the line below the pitless adapter.

Great information! Thanks again.

[Masterchief]

I would insulate the sewer line. Mine runs under the cabin in the sealed crawl space, but where it exits the cabin there is a run of 30 feet to the septic tank. I n the winter, when drain water hits the outside portion, it slowly freezes up over time, almost like a film of ice being added every time the water hits the cold pipe. Eventually the entire pipe will freeze. I have since built a system to thaw the frozen pipe but would be better if it froze less often or not at all. Fore the cost of the insulation, it is well worth it.

[benamen]

I have heard of the use of a 60 watt incandescent bulb left on inside septic tanks to keep the line from freezing. I have not tried it myself.

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