To all outdoorsman and Albertans regarding the castle closure

[Big Grey Wolf]

Article in AO was written by Don Meredith, did not cover camping but covered trapping, hunting and fishing and stated all three are still good to go. Don usually has written very fair and informative articles in AO in the past.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Article in AO was written by Don Meredith, did not cover camping but covered trapping, hunting and fishing and stated all three are still good to go. Don usually has written very fair and informative articles in AO in the past.

Could you please post a link to the article?

I would like to know his reasons for shunning a large part of the outdoor community.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Could you please post a link to the article?

I would like to know his reasons for shunning a large part of the outdoor community.

Well, that's not gonna be explained in the article.

[browning21]

The NDP are making decisions for this province that we will never get out from underneath in 3 lifetimes. Massive deficits, ballooning public sector, and TAX Tax Tax. They will do whatever they want with zero care or regard for what the majority of Albertans want. They know that the only way to make most happy is if the were to quit and go back to Ontario, Manitoba and BC so they continue to force their own moral code on this province. We need to take our province back and try and salvage what is left of the Alberta advantage!

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Well, that's not gonna be explained in the article.

Oh, he's active on facebook!

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Oh, he's active on facebook!

Perhaps. I am not.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Could you please post a link to the article?

I would like to know his reasons for shunning a large part of the outdoor community.

Don Meredith is strongly anti-OHV. Just google him and his past articles.

And yeah, I didn't need those other two guesses...

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Perhaps. I am not.

He's a former moderator on this forum as well.

[rawhide]

I attended the Castle protest rally in Calgary Saturday afternoon. Lots of great speakers from all the different local OHV, Hunting and fishing clubs. The just of it on the closing of the Castle is to move it to a Park with Full service campgrounds, Laundry mats, stores, and hotels. Just like another Jasper/Banff. So I would bet that there are members in the NDP or associates of them that have bought property next to the Castle park boundaries waiting to make a huge sum of money on the constructions of the campgrounds, Hotels etc. Just wandering how many shady backdoor dealings there are, you always find out after when the contracts are signed. This Park was sure railroaded thru fast so nobody had a chance to figure out who the players are to make the money on the expansions. Make a person wonder

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by rawhide

I attended the Castle protest rally in Calgary Saturday afternoon. Lots of great speakers from all the different local OHV, Hunting and fishing clubs. The just of it on the closing of the Castle is to move it to a Park with Full service campgrounds, Laundry mats, stores, and hotels. Just like another Jasper/Banff. So I would bet that there are members in the NDP or associates of them that have bought property next to the Castle park boundaries waiting to make a huge sum of money on the constructions of the campgrounds, Hotels etc. Just wandering how many shady backdoor dealings there are, you always find out after when the contracts are signed. This Park was sure railroaded thru fast so nobody had a chance to figure out who the players are to make the money on the expansions. Make a person wonder

It's already confirmed that some have purchased property in advance.

[sjd]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

It's already confirmed that some have purchased property in advance.

Confirmed by who? Proof or made up conspiracy theory.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Article in AO was written by Don Meredith, did not cover camping but covered trapping, hunting and fishing and stated all three are still good to go. Don usually has written very fair and informative articles in AO in the past.

While hunting may still occur in the park it will be drastically different than what we have today. It will probably be modelled after cypress Hills and offer only elk hunting. No deer, bear, cats or game birds. Conversation has been pretty silent when these questions have been posed and the draft speaks only to allowing hunting where Conservation management is required.

[Don Meredith]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

...the draft speaks only to allowing hunting where Conservation management is required.

That's only for the Provincial Park. Hunting will be allowed in the larger Wildland Park as it is outside the park, following the regulations laid down for WMU 400. The exception is no OHVs. This will provide better hunting opportunities both inside and outside the Wildland Park.

[MathewsArcher]

Agreed as it pertains to the Provincial Park, but it is still lost opportunity

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Don Meredith

That's only for the Provincial Park. Hunting will be allowed in the larger Wildland Park as it is outside the park, following the regulations laid down for WMU 400. The exception is no OHVs. This will provide better hunting opportunities both inside and outside the Wildland Park.

And as we've seen, according to the minister's whim, with the stroke of a pen in a closed door order of council, that wildland park can become a provincial park or have it's regulations changed.

Better hunting opportunities how? For who? Who will it affect most?

[Newview01]

http://m.calgarysun.com/2017/03/07/m...eastern-slopes

The Alberta government has announced the first two public meetings to discuss recreation uses in southern Alberta and the Castle parks area.
Public information sessions will be held March 10 at the Pincher Creek Community Centre from 4:30 to 7:30 p.m. and March 11 at the Chain Lakes Provincial Park MD of Ranchlands Building from 2-5 p.m.
Alberta Environment and Parks staff will be on hand to answer questions and more sessions will be added shortly, according to the department.
As part of the Southern Alberta Recreation Management Planning Process, the sessions will look at broad conservation and land-use issues across the southern Eastern Slopes and Castle wilderness areas.
In addition, an updated draft management plan for the 103,000-hectare Castle Provincial Park and Castle Wildland Provincial Park will be posted on the government website March 10 and public comment has been extended until April 19.
Last week, Environment Minister Shannon Phillips said that past policies have been too piecemeal and the Castle parks need to be part of a larger conversation around land use in the Eastern Slopes.
She encouraged all user groups, including off-highway vehicle users, hikers and conservationists, to get involved by attending a meeting or providing comment.*

Spread the word if you want to hunt or fish in the Castle Area sometime in the future.

[Don Meredith]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

And as we've seen, according to the minister's whim, with the stroke of a pen in a closed door order of council, that wildland park can become a provincial park or have it's regulations changed.

So can any regulation anywhere. That's why hunters and anglers need to be involved in the planning process and be willing to cooperate with others, including the environmentalists trying to conserve some of the wild for future generations. We hunters and anglers are in the minority.

Better hunting opportunities how? For who? Who will it affect most?

Better hunting opportunities for everyone by providing better fish and wildlife habitat, leading to larger and more healthy populations. In the future the wildland park will provide the prime hunting and fishing opportunities the region used to be known for, allowing people to hunt and fish on foot and quietly, the way it should be done.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Don Meredith

So can any regulation anywhere. That's why hunters and anglers need to be involved in the planning process and be willing to cooperate with others, including the environmentalists trying to conserve some of the wild for future generations. We hunters and anglers are in the minority.



Better hunting opportunities for everyone by providing better fish and wildlife habitat, leading to larger and more healthy populations. In the future the wildland park will provide the prime hunting and fishing opportunities the region used to be known for, allowing people to hunt and fish on foot and quietly, the way it should be done.

You really. Don't. Get. It.

The people in charge of making this park happen don't want hunting and fishing. How about to protect hunting and fishing you stand with the majority user group and protect OHV use. I don't think there is even a 1/4 of the people who hike castle as opposed to OHV users.

[colvert]

I agree with Don's philosophy. OHVs are a true nuisance on public land. Maybe they could try to go on private land and destroy it for a fun fee? Good luck!

[Don Meredith]

Originally Posted by Newview01

The people in charge of making this park happen don't want hunting and fishing.

Says who? Have you read the draft management plan? If you had, you would see hunting and fishing will be allowed in both parks, just like it is in K-country, etc.

How about to protect hunting and fishing you stand with the majority user group and protect OHV use. I don't think there is even a 1/4 of the people who hike castle as opposed to OHV users.

I think you might be surprised by the number of people who like to hunt and fish on foot in peace and quiet, especially in high mountain areas. I'm not opposed to all OHV use, just the use that tears up habitat and destroys fish spawning areas, etc. The reason you see fewer hikers in that area is that they've been runoff by the OHV crowd. These parks will bring the hikers back as well as many hunters/anglers, including myself, who got frustrated by what they saw and heard. Here's a link to a piece a respected fisheries biologist posted on my blog about what he's seen:
https://donmeredith.wordpress.com/20...y-vehicle-use/

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You really. Don't. Get. It.

The people in charge of making this park happen don't want hunting and fishing. How about to protect hunting and fishing you stand with the majority user group and protect OHV use. I don't think there is even a 1/4 of the people who hike castle as opposed to OHV users.

Somebody doesn't get, I listened to the minister on Danielle Smiths show. She iterated and reiterated often, Hunting and Fishing are in the plans.

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by colvert

I agree with Don's philosophy. OHVs are a true nuisance on public land. Maybe they could try to go on private land and destroy it for a fun fee? Good luck!

Yup. Go buy your own land and giver snot. There's enough of OHV users just pool your money together and have at er

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Don Meredith

Says who? Have you read the draft management plan? If you had, you would see hunting and fishing will be allowed in both parks, just like it is in K-country, etc.


I think you might be surprised by the number of people who like to hunt and fish on foot in peace and quiet, especially in high mountain areas. I'm not opposed to all OHV use, just the use that tears up habitat and destroys fish spawning areas, etc. The reason you see fewer hikers in that area is that they've been runoff by the OHV crowd. These parks will bring the hikers back as well as many hunters/anglers, including myself, who got frustrated by what they saw and heard. Here's a link to a piece a respected fisheries biologist posted on my blog about what he's seen:
https://donmeredith.wordpress.com/20...y-vehicle-use/

You are clearly in the know when it comes to these matters so could you tell me what percentage of the proposed Castle area that will see a complete OHV ban in the next five years has been 'damaged' by OHVs?

BTW, I do not own an OHV. I have in the past and I hope to in the future. In addition to that, I prefer hunting on foot.

In addition, you would also know that the Y2Y is a large part of the push for this, and Y2Y is not hunting / fishing friendly. We also know that the NDP are not to be trusted, and would happily see the area shut down to hunters.

The whole thing reeks of government corruption and backroom deals. There are plenty of options that would keep OHV use on the table, but so far Shannon Phillips has been clear that she is not interested in that. Her mouth says one thing but her actions say another.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Hunting and Fishing are in the plans.

For now.

Best case scenario, they stay.

I do not have any faith in Ms. Phillips.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Don Meredith

So can any regulation anywhere. That's why hunters and anglers need to be involved in the planning process and be willing to cooperate with others, including the environmentalists trying to conserve some of the wild for future generations. We hunters and anglers are in the minority.

Like OHV groups were involved in the Castle planning process and were willing to cooperate?

Get your head out of the sand Don and quit believing everything you're told because you want it to be true.

Better hunting opportunities for everyone by providing better fish and wildlife habitat, leading to larger and more healthy populations. In the future the wildland park will provide the prime hunting and fishing opportunities the region used to be known for, allowing people to hunt and fish on foot and quietly, the way it should be done.

IN YOUR OPINION.

There are MANY different groups of hunters out there that enjoy hunting in many different ways. When we turn our backs on those groups because they don't, or can't, do things "the way they should be done", we take our minority group and weaken it even further.

It's an arrogant, elitist, and self righteous approach to our PUBLIC lands and our PUBLIC resource.

There are ample spaces currently available in Alberta where anyone can go and hunt on foot in areas where OHVs are prohibited if that's their personal preference.

Furthermore, there is NOTHING to say that better wildlife habitat and better, healthier wildlife populations are not possible where OHV use is permitted.

[Don Meredith]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You are clearly in the know when it comes to these matters so could you tell me what percentage of the proposed Castle area that will see a complete OHV ban in the next five years has been 'damaged' by OHVs?

I don't have that information but you might ask the Parks people about it. I just know what I and many others have seen when we've walked the trails.

In addition, you would also know that the Y2Y is a large part of the push for this, and Y2Y is not hunting / fishing friendly.

Y2Y, AWA, CPAWS, I support them all and no where in their documentation, vision/mission statements do they say anything about being anti hunting or anti fishing. Sure, some of their members might be, but that doesn't mean the organization is. The reason I support them is that they do good work in protecting and improving fish and wildlife habitat and ensuring we will always have wild areas to hunt, fish and hike in. I go to their meetings and talk with the people on the exec. etc., tell them I hunt and fish, and I've never heard a discouraging word about it. Indeed, I've met several of their members who also hunt and fish. The organizations represent a lot of people and hunters and anglers should work with them to ensure hunting and fishing always is considered in decisions. If we don't, we will lose.

We also know that the NDP are not to be trusted, and would happily see the area shut down to hunters.

The PCs couldn't be trusted either, and again, I've yet to hear from anyone in the NDP say they want to shut down hunting in the Castle or elsewhere.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You are clearly in the know when it comes to these matters so could you tell me what percentage of the proposed Castle area that will see a complete OHV ban in the next five years has been 'damaged' by OHVs?

BTW, I do not own an OHV. I have in the past and I hope to in the future. In addition to that, I prefer hunting on foot.

In addition, you would also know that the Y2Y is a large part of the push for this, and Y2Y is not hunting / fishing friendly. We also know that the NDP are not to be trusted, and would happily see the area shut down to hunters.

The whole thing reeks of government corruption and backroom deals. There are plenty of options that would keep OHV use on the table, but so far Shannon Phillips has been clear that she is not interested in that. Her mouth says one thing but her actions say another.

If "The whole thing reeks of government corruption and backroom deals" - then follow the money and then tell us honestly who stands to lose the gravy from the train if any of these wild conspiracy theories that are flying around come to pass.

[Don_Parsons]

Many of us have been following this Castle Mountain Area Park plan when it started off as the SSRB "South Saskatchewan River Basin".

The plan from day 1 was too have "ALL" user groups that use this area provide input by having meetings with their user groups over a time frame allotted by the original draft plan set in place when this park idea was getting under way...

Many groups like the "Quad Squad was still in consultation when Rachael Notley and Shannon Phillips announced that this Castle Area will not include OHV'S even though Shannon said they would. Two user groups in writing too gain their support,,, then they turned a blind eye on them in the surprise announcement on top of that.

So the word trust has come up that hunting and fishing is allowed at this point in time, but does this mean that it will remain this way forever, or is there a plan later on too change this with out consultation from other users groups as they "were" attempting this with the ohv groups.

Don't know as none of us have been asked at this point in time.
The head of Alberta Fish and Game Association was at the Calgary rally. He sure didn't sound please with this OHV ban and the long term plan on what could happen to the 400 zone.

Is this a smoke and screen thing too eliminate one user group, then the next as it becomes a no Harvesting zone in years too come, or will it remain open for ever,,, hummmmm.

Next question is the folks with health issues that uses this area by any means possible, ohvs, horses, and Snowmobiles as some folks have worn out backs and knees, other have MS, and many other diseases they we're born with or inherited over time that limit their movements in travel.

Guess some folks talk about hiking and walking as this is not an option for all humans. I guess these folks input dosen't matter as this park and wild land is "only" for those that can travel it by foot.
Strange too think of it this way I guess.

I agree that there are 2 sides too this park and wild land thing, but it would be nice if "all" user groups "could" use the area. Enforcement with education, and improvements on the well built trail net-work that is all ready in place down there.

I'm very lucky as I've ohv'ed, mountain biked, hiked, snowmobiled, and camped on and off down there for many years.

A little fishing with catch and always release, sight seeing, and lots of relaxing at nill for cost on plain old crown lands there and across all the Americas.

Times are a changing, but it sure would be nice too allow our older generation too have some of this free as well as our next generation.

The out doors kinda cost us in travel with the unit we take gas and food along with wife and kids.
The odd peddle bikes, OHV, or Snowmobiles depending on the season.

I for one along with many a folks on this forum like crown lands as the masses of us respect them.

That's my take as I share in what "could or not could" in years forward.

Just gearing up for the 9th weekend out for 2017 on Crown lands as I have 43 more too go before years end.

PS: Let it be known that out-door lives matter. Ha

From Don

[silver lab]

Not sure if this has been posted but there will be another meeting about the park at the Pincher Creek community center March 10th from 4:30pm to 7:30pm.

[1cuz1]

I believe it most certainly will eventually phase out the hunting fishing community as well.
I am all for hunting by foot but when there's paved roads, government campgrounds, stores not to mention the construction coming to build everything how can it not effect other users?
I agree hikers and ohv's probably don't see eye to eye but personally I've never road down a hiking trail but hikers do utilize ohv trails for walking. Seems like an easy fix right, designated trails.