Crazy hourly rates

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

I frequent car shows and when I see a good paint job I ask who/what and where.The last guy I talk to had a 73 charger and he trailered it to the USA for the resto,$50 an hr there and over a 100 here.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by colroggal

50 years ago a family had 1 TV, 1 car. They didn't go to Mexico every year and have a fifth wheel and quads and a boat and snowmobiles and a truck to pull them. A hunter had 1 or 2 guns and $700 dollar camouflage kit didn't exist. A fridge was used until it couldn't be fixed again. Same with washers and dryers - and the manufacturers kept parts in stock instead of discontinuing them after 5 years.

And most families didn't live in 2000 Sq ft houses. 1200 was the norm. You're right. People didn't live on credit like we do today. They lived within their means.

I'm gonna stop now because I think something just popped above my left eye.

Colin

You may be onto something. Kids didn't have a 600 dollar cell phone. When we finally got a land line it was a 4 person party line.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by colroggal

50 years ago a family had 1 TV, 1 car. They didn't go to Mexico every year and have a fifth wheel and quads and a boat and snowmobiles and a truck to pull them. A hunter had 1 or 2 guns and $700 dollar camouflage kit didn't exist. A fridge was used until it couldn't be fixed again. Same with washers and dryers - and the manufacturers kept parts in stock instead of discontinuing them after 5 years.

And most families didn't live in 2000 Sq ft houses. 1200 was the norm. You're right. People didn't live on credit like we do today. They lived within their means.

I'm gonna stop now because I think something just popped above my left eye.

Colin

Keep in mind that mom had twice as many kids and did not work outside the home. That 1 car was replaced ( On average)every 3 years also and required a lot more maintenance than the current crop.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Swinging a hammer is important, ut not as important as knowing where to hit with it.

It has always struck me strange that people think the next guy is overpaid.

Wonder what the solution would be?

Ain't that the truth. I once knew a guy that made $30, so I did what he did and made $32, then I met a guy that made $40, so I did what he did, then I met a guy that made $100, so once again I did what he did. The point is not to be envious, that's for people that arent willing to work hard and sacrifice.

[Lefty-Canuck]

The company I work for bills out my time for $325/hr 2hr minimum.

Or for 2-4 day response $2700, includes travel (by air or car) within 2 hours of a major Center and two hours on site.

Rate A is for more core or basic equipment and Rate B is for more specialized stuff.



LC

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The company I work for bills out my time for $325/hr 2hr minimum.

Or for 2-4 day response $2700, includes travel (by air or car) within 2 hours of a major Center and two hours on site.

LC

Is that for both in calls and out calls?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

Is that for both in calls and out calls?

We work regular business hours Monday to Friday, 8-5. No oncall or emergency afterhour service.

LC

[Little red riding hood]

Originally Posted by tirebob

This drives me nuts!

It isn't just an hourly cost most of the time... How much is rent on a store? How much is equipment? How much are employees? How much is insurance? Etc...

So I have a couple hundred grand invested in equipment and my break even is 25 grand a month and I am a simple tire store. Working a 40 hour week, 5 days a week, I have to make $136.00 and hour to break even. What should I charge?

Simple math and speculation, how many bays in your shop? How steady is work? Divide that by 136 and you have your hourly rate, if you have 10 bays full time busy, you should be charging 13.60/hr per Bay. Then you'll be able to compete with the Mexicans.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by Fur

My experience with coming from Ont. to here there is a huge wage difference for the same trades (electrician, plumber etc).
In Ontario finding an electrician (residential at $40-50 an hour was easy).

Here I was finishing my basement and needed 12 plugs and 5 lights. The lights were already wired just needed switches installed.

In Ontario could have got the job done for $600-$1000 easily. Here I was quoted by 2 different electrical companies at $4700 and $5500. I was just blown away at the cost here.

Did it myself in 4 hours (waited at City Hall for the permit for another 2..) and $420 worth of material. $1000 an hour? Come on.

Alberta for sure has helped me learn a lot of new skills!

Do a lot of jobs and have a smaller profit margin or find a few jobs with a large profit margin. The latter risks one finding enough jobs. The Walmart approach is better I feel. But that is just me.

Lol! They saw you coming... Glad you did it yourself! There are a few out there that try to bill way to much for stuff like this, so it's buyer beware. If you had a contractor doing it (or had a decent line on a fair electrian) you'd be in the $1500-$2000 range on that basement which would include coming back to install all the plugs, switches and covers as well as hang the lights (supplied by you). There are A LOT of good contractors and tradespeople out there that aren't looking to retire off a single job. But as said by many, cost of living is expensive so nothing is free.

[Unregistered user]

Don't underestimate the worth of a qualified tradesman either. Lots of people enter the trades yet the drop out rate beyond second year apprenticeship is huge because they just don't have what it takes, this is true for any trade. Ask around.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Yessir!!! I knew a woman who charged $500 per hour and she told me she was a lawyer in the Ukraine.

Probably no exaggeration there. Germany 2006, world class musicians busking on the streets.

Grizz

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I was watching the welding thread, guys were talking most ticketed welders are charging $80-130/hr.

It made me think, for schooling (grade 9 LOL j/k) truck, gear, consumables, certification that should be fairly decent.

Then I thought, I remember hearing some insane hourly rates.

$125/hr Drone repair in Calgary and Edmonton- this is ZERO schooling, no degree in electronics, no master soldering journeyman ticket, nothing. Bring in a guy, put him behind the counter, and when he is proficient at it, show the rest of the guys. I do all my own, having been in the hobby 40 years. Guess I should have opened a hobby shop.

I am in the wrong line of work!!!

I remember going to Ft Macmoney in 2001-2006 for work, and the recreational powersports dealers there were $90-$100/hr. To work on toys.

Our little service station in town is now at $60/hr, it may take twice as long to get things done some times but it is handy and maximum 6 blocks away for everyone in town.

I remember hearing a Ford dealer at $135/hr.

Are things settling down?

If you saw the rates for leases that those people have to pay up here you would puke ,Ken.
Just keeping a shop open because of the outrageous overhead is a job in itself
Those guys aren't making a killing on their rates , I know that for a fact
Cat

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Fur

My experience with coming from Ont. to here there is a huge wage difference for the same trades (electrician, plumber etc).
In Ontario finding an electrician (residential at $40-50 an hour was easy).

Here I was finishing my basement and needed 12 plugs and 5 lights. The lights were already wired just needed switches installed.

In Ontario could have got the job done for $600-$1000 easily. Here I was quoted by 2 different electrical companies at $4700 and $5500. I was just blown away at the cost here.

Did it myself in 4 hours (waited at City Hall for the permit for another 2..) and $420 worth of material. $1000 an hour? Come on.

Alberta for sure has helped me learn a lot of new skills!


Do a lot of jobs and have a smaller profit margin or find a few jobs with a large profit margin. The latter risks one finding enough jobs. The Walmart approach is better I feel. But that is just me.

That's what $100 + a barrel oil did. When oil stays a $50 for a few more years things will get back to reality.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

If you saw the rates for leases that those people have to pay up here you would puke ,Ken.
Just keeping a shop open because of the outrageous overhead is a job in itself
Those guys aren't making a killing on their rates , I know that for a fact
Cat

Not only leases, I have friends that run businesses, and they not only have to pay huge leases, and big wages to attract qualified tradesmen, but some are even subsidizing housing for their people. With that kind of overhead, the rates that they charge have to be very high just to make a profit.

[CBintheNorth]

You guys ain't got nothing on WAJAX.
Need your HD Allison tranny worked on? $175/hr.
Next most expensive tranny shop is $150/hr. Want to take it there? NOPE. WAJAX Only.
Now if they were doing something more than the other guys or had better education and problem solving I would say "fair enough". However, when you walk into the location here in Edmonton you immediately get put in your place and made to feel like you are not as important as the crumb in their mustache, then I have a problem. 'Service' happens there when THEY feel like gracing you with some.
This collusion, monopoly style, 3rd party racketeering is unacceptable UNLESS charges are equal or lesser than the competition. I have to deal with WAJAX fairly regularly and I go into a spastic fit every time. The only reason we even have to deal with them at all is because our customers refuse to deal with them, so they ask us to on their behalf.
Rant over.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Not only leases, I have friends that run businesses, and they not only have to pay huge leases, and big wages to attract qualified tradesmen, but some are even subsidizing housing for their people. With that kind of overhead, the rates that they charge have to be very high just to make a profit.

Yup in total agreement .
Formula Sports is a father/son operation and I know full well what goes on there , they are not making a killing at the expense of the customer , but the work done in that shop is top shelf .
Cat

[Redfrog]

Another thing in the mix is the fact that not everyone has the same level of incompetence.

On average half the class is dumber than the other class. To get certification means doing better than the minimum criteria.

In some schools that could be a test result of 50 %.

Try asking your surgeon, or lawyer what his standing was when they graduated.

Top 10 in the class or bottom ten. Which do you hire??

I'm sure we've all seen trades people who make the work look like easy peasy art, and the next struggles to remember where he left his other boot.

Does your mechanic "fix" stuff or just change parts? How quickly can he diagnose the issue?

and don't even get me started on guides and outfitters. that industry is just a license to print cash.

[hilt134]

Like my buddy told me. It costs less for a travler with no insurance to get a doctor by the hour than a mechanic.

[58thecat]

Would these crazy rates not reflect crazy operating costs,overhead etc?
Probably directly related.

[Fur]

Originally Posted by Scott h

That's what $100 + a barrel oil did. When oil stays a $50 for a few more years things will get back to reality.

For sure.

The problem is when prices should go down they never go down in proportion. Oil gets cut in half, prices at the pump cut in half? Nope!

I remember when our dollar was at par with USD. Prices never dropped, retailers excuses were anything from old inventory to whatever. Dollar drops to 75 cents, prices go up. Never the other way around it seems!

Prices can remain stagnant, but solid proportional drops I have yet to see.

[Mulehahn]

Most of Canada is ridiculous in this regard. My company bills out at roughly $200/hour plus consumables, min 4 hours. I make between 30 and 45/hour (I have a couple of tickets and it varies on which/how many I am using on any given job).

I have worked a few jobs outside of Canada (my Tickets are recognized in most of Europe, and South America. In the USA I have to take a 2 day test to prove my competency) Very people choose to leave Canada. Why? Because you have to take a 50% pay cut. An American in the same trade as me maxes out at $18 for more experience and skills than I have and companies charge about $100/per hour no minimum. Equivalent to the jobs I have done in Estonia, and a few others in Eastern Europe. I have never seen anywhere that charges close to what trades in Canada do, or the expenses companies are expected to pay out. A journeyman electrician in England earns about the equivalent of about $50,000 Canadian before taxes. That or about 2/3 the average of a residential electrician in Canada.

As one poster mentioned, Ontario is way less than Western Canada. The West is headed for a huge collapse.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Does your mechanic "fix" stuff or just change parts? How quickly can he diagnose the issue?

As a mechanic this is one of those things that really annoys me too. When I started it made economical sense to repair components. From fuel pumps, brake pots, engines whatever. I also remember the day that our supervisor walked into our shop and told us that we really need to make sure we stay productive. They just had to raise the shop rate to $1 per minute!!! Nowadays it costs me more to troubleshoot a $65 sensor than it does to replace it. Why troubleshoot it when I can give you a new part for the same price? Why repair an engine when they have Reman parts at 1/2 my cost?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

As a mechanic this is one of those things that really annoys me too. When I started it made economical sense to repair components. From fuel pumps, brake pots, engines whatever. I also remember the day that our supervisor walked into our shop and told us that we really need to make sure we stay productive. They just had to raise the shop rate to $1 per minute!!! Nowadays it costs me more to troubleshoot a $65 sensor than it does to replace it. Why troubleshoot it when I can give you a new part for the same price? Why repair an engine when they have Reman parts at 1/2 my cost?

I had to stop going to a shop here, all they did was start replacing sensors because they did not have proper diagnostic equipment. A good Mechanichance is worth his weight in gold

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I had to stop going to a shop here, all they did was start replacing sensors because they did not have proper diagnostic equipment. A good Mechanichance is worth his weight in gold

So...that would mean I'm worth 2592 oz x 1245 per oz...only Connor Mc Jezbuz can get away with that Nah.. I'm more humble that that...but really really GOOD and drop dead honest!! Fix it like your fixing your Mom's or Grandma's vehicle..n'uff said

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

That's what $100 + a barrel oil did. When oil stays a $50 for a few more years things will get back to reality.

The government will keep that level of wages propped up. Imagine if suddenly there was a major correction in taxable earnings? Either way, the taxpayer loses.

[KBF]

How about a dentist? Those are scary rates

[big zeke]

Originally Posted by KBF

How about a dentist? Those are scary rates

I sat in my dentists chair earlier this week, paid about $700 for just short of 2 hours in the chair (he did some exams while the freezing was setting though). assuming his consumables were around $100 for 4 fillings (rounded up for easy math) it looks like he made about $300 an hour (yikes). On the way out I chatted with 3 staff that are non-chargeable plus his assistant (also non-chargeable)...this means their wages are paid out of the $600 he netted. The office rent is sizeable, the equipment is new and quite expensive.

He works 3-4 days a week, not that he wouldn't like to work more but in his late 50s his body can't take a 40 hr week, he has back problems and minor arthritis from his working position. By my guess I'd think he works 1500 hrs a year, his insurance and rent are a flat rate no matter how much he works.

Based on his labour alone he probably nets about $150-200/hr, he has about a dozen years of post-secondary education that very few people would be able to do and he spends money every year sharpening his skills and updating equipment.

So in the end if he puts 300k in his pocket, with all of his specialized education, all of his investments, all of his overhead and staff burdens, he has earned it the hard way, I don't begrudge him for a darn thing.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Swinging a hammer is important, ut not as important as knowing where to hit with it.

It has always struck me strange that people think the next guy is overpaid.

Wonder what the solution would be?

x10000000

Pretty simple: supply and demand. Some people are losing their shirts now. Hopefully we had more ants than grasshoppers...
Welders are usually highly skilled and multi ticketed to earn those good rates. They have no guarantee of work tomorrow and an expensive rig to maintain. They earn every penny all while stripping years off their life. Same goes for anyone willing to bust their knuckles chipping out a living.

[purgatory.sv]

Two posts make the most sense,but the value of the presentation and delivered product is what matters.

Post #5 and #61

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I had to stop going to a shop here, all they did was start replacing sensors because they did not have proper diagnostic equipment. A good Mechanichance is worth his weight in gold

Well Ken, there is a much bigger difference with randomly grabbing sensors, and making educated guesses. Let me try and paint the big picture for you here.

We have to understand the situations first. One of the most important things is, that I am charged out at $210 an hour. That's not me, that's my employer. When I arrive for say a diagnostic fault I will hook up my laptop and within a few minutes usually determine what code was likely the culprit. That code then leads me to a specific circuit to troubleshoot. Within a simple sensor circuit, there can only be 3 culprits. The sensor, the wires, or the ECM. Most times I am troubleshooting an intermittent fault. So when I arrive I have the choice to sit in my truck and wait for the fault to arise so I can determine if it is in fact the sensor, the wire, or the ECM. I may have travelled 3 hours to get there, meaning I will have to travel 3 hours to get home. So right now we are $1260 on the bill. If I wait an additional 6 hours and no code, where is that customer left? $2520 in the hole with absolutely nothing accomplished, that's where. So with my years of experience telling me that 7 or 8 times out of 10 its the sensor. I will replace the sensor worth say a hundred dollars, and a half hour of labour for arguments sake. So now the customer is in to the bill $1405 and there is a very good chance we never talk about this failure again. True, sometimes I have to come back, but I gave the customer a better chance of solving the issue for less money than doing nothing. Also, at this point we know its not the sensor so maybe we try jumping out the harness.

Now in other situations when I work on an active code it is a different story. Once I determine the circuit in question I can test it. Using a simple sensor circuit again I need to test the three wires. One is +V, one is a ground/digital return, and the third is a signal wire. Usually sensors are fairly accessible. So I can test the sensor for voltage and a ground. I can also test to see if it is sending a signal. However to test the circuit properly I need to test that signal at the ECM and if its a digital return it needs to be tested at the ECM. In many places I have to dismantle a cab to get at the ECM and then remove harnesses and pin-in to the proper wire. Many times that alone can take 2 hours. So I can spend 2-3 hours testing a circuit and find that 7 or 8 times out of 10 it is in fact the sensor then spend half an hour changing the $100 sensor. So properly diagnosing and changing it would cost $835. Just changing the sensor will cost $205.

True there are times when its not the sensor and then I have to chase wiring or an ECM. In that case I have cost that customer an extra $205. However, the 7 or 8 previous sensor repairs I have made for that same customer may have saved him $630 each time.

By the way, I'm not trying to start a war with you, I'm just trying to point out the economics of my situation. These costs lead to many decisions I am forced to make and why I will do things the way I do. Its not to line my pockets, its to try to get the best value for the customer.

Originally Posted by MrLeahy

So...that would mean I'm worth 2592 oz x 1245 per oz...only Connor Mc Jezbuz can get away with that Nah.. I'm more humble that that...but really really GOOD and drop dead honest!! Fix it like your fixing your Mom's or Grandma's vehicle..n'uff said

Yep, when I began apprenticing, I was told to make each repair like I was paying the bill.