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03-18-2019, 01:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 388
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Old shotguns using new shells
Hey there,
First off I am an absolute noob to this stuff so be gentle haha. But I had plans to shoot an old shotgun my grandpa has but I thought I heard you have to shoot steel shot now instead of lead. And the issue being that older shotguns cannot shoot the steel shot supposedly.
Can guns shoot both steel and lead?
Another side bar of this could also be that the skeet range we went to once may have stipulated the steel shot - so I could be messing up my facts as well on what can be shot where/when.
And another thing is where is the best deal and place to get cheap shotgun ammo for skeet shooting. What is a good price?
Any clarity would be appreciated.
Thank you!
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03-18-2019, 02:31 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: near Calgary
Posts: 6,638
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steel is required for migratory and for some federal grounds like Wainwright base
Lead shot is permitted for most upland game although many people have switched to non toxic shot due to health concerns over lead shot or lead bullets in game meat. I don't know of a skeet range that insisted on steel shot but most will insist you shoot smaller shot than 6 shot so 7.5 8 or 9 are OK.
Many shotguns shoot both but it is generally the choke of the barrels rather than the age of the gun. Any open choke like IC is generally OK for steel (and lead). Never shoot steel shot through a fixed full choke old shotgun.
My only concern when you state your grandpas gun is that it was designed to shoot old black powder or is damascus barrel both of which will not withstand the pressures of todays modern shot shells. If in doubt have the gun checked by a competent gun smith. l
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a hunting we will go!!!!!!
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03-18-2019, 02:36 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Edmonton area
Posts: 1,467
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Never shoot steel though a full choke on any shotgun-EVER
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Wherever you go, there you are
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03-18-2019, 03:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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I am not aware of any skeet range in Alberta that requires steel shot. Seeing that you are listed as being in Edmonton, I am wondering which skeet range you were at, and which skeet range you intend to shoot at, because there are no skeet ranges in the immediate Edmonton area.Our skeet range at Camrose, is one of the closest skeet ranges to Edmonton, other than the skeet range at Beaverhill Sporting clays, and if you are paying sporting clays prices, you might as well shoot sporting clays.
As to using steel in older shotguns, many older guns are not approved for steel shot, regardless of the choke, the forcing cones can suffer gouging and scratching from steel shot. Larger steel shot and higher velocities increases the risk of damage. As to buying target loads, swing by Cabelas now, and you can pick up Challenger lead shot target loads at under $7 per box on sale.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
Last edited by elkhunter11; 03-18-2019 at 03:34 PM.
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03-18-2019, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
I am not aware of any skeet range in Alberta that requires steel shot. Seeing that you are listed as being in Edmonton, I am wondering which skeet range you were at, and which skeet range you intend to shoot at, because there are no skeet ranges in the immediate Edmonton area.Our skeet range at Camrose, is one of the closest skeet ranges to Edmonton, other than the skeet range at Beaverhill Sporting clays, and if you are paying sporting clays prices, you might as well shoot sporting clays.
As to using steel in older shotguns, many older guns are not approved for steel shot, regardless of the choke, the forcing cones can suffer gouging and scratching from steel shot. Larger steel shot and higher velocities increases the risk of damage. As to buying target loads, swing by Cabelas now, and you can pick up Challenger lead shot target loads at under $7 per box on sale.
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Skeet ranges on military bases have this requirement. Federal land. It is the reason the one at CFB Suffield petered out.
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One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.
Thomas Sowell
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03-18-2019, 03:43 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Edmonton area
Posts: 1,467
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Would get expensive quick
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Wherever you go, there you are
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03-18-2019, 03:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf
Skeet ranges on military bases have this requirement. Federal land. It is the reason the one at CFB Suffield petered out.
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So which military bases in Alberta still have operational skeet fields?
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-18-2019, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justfishin73
Would get expensive quick
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Not to mention that its tough enough to shoot skeet with a 410 using lead shot, steel would make it more difficult yet, having to use larger shot size and even fewer pellets.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-18-2019, 04:03 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishwhere
Hey there,
First off I am an absolute noob to this stuff so be gentle haha. But I had plans to shoot an old shotgun my grandpa has but I thought I heard you have to shoot steel shot now instead of lead. And the issue being that older shotguns cannot shoot the steel shot supposedly.
Can guns shoot both steel and lead?
Another side bar of this could also be that the skeet range we went to once may have stipulated the steel shot - so I could be messing up my facts as well on what can be shot where/when.
And another thing is where is the best deal and place to get cheap shotgun ammo for skeet shooting. What is a good price?
Any clarity would be appreciated.
Thank you!
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First off, just how old is the shotgun?
It could very well be that even smokeless modern loads are too high pressure for it!
As far as shooting steel goes, I refrain from it in most guns unless I have opened up both the chokes and forcing cones ,or if the gun is designated for steel.
The majority of the guns I shoot are not .
Yup,pics would be nice!
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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03-18-2019, 10:20 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,570
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...
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03-19-2019, 07:36 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 388
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Ok guys I got some updates;
I must have misheard or something regarding the steel shot because its beaver hills sporting clays for the skeet place and they dont require steel shot.
And my grandpas gun is a reminton 12 gauge automatic sportsman 58.
I dont know where I heard the steel shot thing, but it was relatively recently. Oh well.
On a side note he also has a .22 - Cooey model 60 bolt action.
Im getting my gun license to be able to shoot both of these recreationally to start anyways. Really looking forward to it.
Thanks for replies thus far....!
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03-19-2019, 07:49 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishwhere
Ok guys I got some updates;
I must have misheard or something regarding the steel shot because its beaver hills sporting clays for the skeet place and they dont require steel shot.
And my grandpas gun is a reminton 12 gauge automatic sportsman 58.
I dont know where I heard the steel shot thing, but it was relatively recently. Oh well.
On a side note he also has a .22 - Cooey model 60 bolt action.
Im getting my gun license to be able to shoot both of these recreationally to start anyways. Really looking forward to it.
Thanks for replies thus far....!
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If you want to shoot skeet, you can shoot it at Camrose for 1/4 of the cost of shooting skeet at Beaver Hill. If you want to shoot sporting clays, buy a membership at Beaverhill and save about 50% over the non member price.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-19-2019, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishwhere
Ok guys I got some updates;
I must have misheard or something regarding the steel shot because its beaver hills sporting clays for the skeet place and they dont require steel shot.
And my grandpas gun is a reminton 12 gauge automatic sportsman 58.
I dont know where I heard the steel shot thing, but it was relatively recently. Oh well.
On a side note he also has a .22 - Cooey model 60 bolt action.
Im getting my gun license to be able to shoot both of these recreationally to start anyways. Really looking forward to it.
Thanks for replies thus far....!
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The 58 is the forerunner to the 1100, the big difference is the 1100 automatically regulates the gas fir ejection and the 58 needs to be manually adjusted .
They are great guns and very reliable
They handle modern lead quite well.
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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03-19-2019, 12:05 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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if you have a full choke, bulging your barrel may/may not occur immediately.
may if you put enough rounds through it, eventually, either way, does put more strain on your barrel.
ive been putting steel through a 30 year old Remington sportsman with a full choke(typically 3 inch magnums) since the restriction came into affect. not many rounds mind you, maybe 60 a year?
no problems with mine so far.
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03-19-2019, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Edmonton area
Posts: 1,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Black
if you have a full choke, bulging your barrel may/may not occur immediately.
may if you put enough rounds through it, eventually, either way, does put more strain on your barrel.
ive been putting steel through a 30 year old Remington sportsman with a full choke(typically 3 inch magnums) since the restriction came into affect. not many rounds mind you, maybe 60 a year?
no problems with mine so far.
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Yikes, you are playing with fire
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Wherever you go, there you are
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03-19-2019, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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fire is my middle name,,,,,,,,
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03-19-2019, 06:03 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 379
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I don't believe that Remington 58's were never produced in 3" versions so you are pushing 3" shells through a gun designed for 2 3/4" ammo. Don't you have problems with ejecting empties even if it feeds to the chamber reliably? Also, many of the '58 receivers would develop a stress crack running back from the slot that is to the rear of the ejection port. It won't likely take long if you keep using 3" loads....just sayin'.
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03-19-2019, 06:38 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPman
I don't believe that Remington 58's were never produced in 3" versions so you are pushing 3" shells through a gun designed for 2 3/4" ammo. Don't you have problems with ejecting empties even if it feeds to the chamber reliably? Also, many of the '58 receivers would develop a stress crack running back from the slot that is to the rear of the ejection port. It won't likely take long if you keep using 3" loads....just sayin'.
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I don't think he mentioned 3" ammo.
Open up the forcing cone and the full choke and it will be fine with 2 3/4" steel ammo if the receiver is in good shape.
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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03-19-2019, 06:59 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 1,592
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But it makes no sense, of course, to alter such a low value, vintage gun.
Shoot a Remington 58 with lead skeet or trap loads or send it down the road.
Investing more money in it is inadvisable.
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03-19-2019, 07:18 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskbooknut
But it makes no sense, of course, to alter such a low value, vintage gun.
Shoot a Remington 58 with lead skeet or trap loads or send it down the road.
Investing more money in it is inadvisable.
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Unless a person is only going to shoot a few boxes of ammo at waterfowl each year and alsobwants to shoot clays every now and then
Of course a person could shoot Bismuth Ammo out of it if only two or three boxes of waterfowl Ammo a year is the goal
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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03-19-2019, 07:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskbooknut
But it makes no sense, of course, to alter such a low value, vintage gun.
Shoot a Remington 58 with lead skeet or trap loads or send it down the road.
Investing more money in it is inadvisable.
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Financially, it makes no sense. However, there are other considerations than financial. On the odd occasion, I still go out and shoot one of the old guns that my grandpa taught me with.
And I'm fixing up an old chainsaw that has little value as it was the saw that he taught me to use a chainsaw with. In good running order, that saw is worth $40 tops. So what if I sink $100 into it to get it running properly. Be nice to hear the old girl run again.
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03-19-2019, 09:01 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 214
Posts: 1,816
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Shotgun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishwhere
Ok guys I got some updates;
And my grandpas gun is a reminton 12 gauge automatic sportsman 58.
Thanks for replies thus far....!
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And I was thinking it was an old double barrel or something.
Now I feel old ...
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03-20-2019, 06:03 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Black
fire is my middle name,,,,,,,,
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That bulge in the barrel is not because the shotty is happy to see you.....
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03-20-2019, 09:53 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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mines a sportsman 12 magnum.
dressed down 870?
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03-20-2019, 12:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 388
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Took a look at the shotgun today and it does have the manual ejection knob on it. Not sure how to do that yet, but im sure a little googling will do me good on that.
And to one of the other fellows talking about 2 3/4 shells - that was just confirmed by my grandpa. In saying that, am i able to buy those easily still? Or are they a weird size?
He also has some really old shells - any advisable time frame to use shells in, do they go bad?
Another question is are you allowed to hunt ducks etc witb the lead shot? I think it has to be steel right? Maybe thats how i started getting all of this confused.
Any suggestions for someone (gunsmith etc) in the edmonton area to look at the gun and maybe do some minor cleaning/maitenance.
Thanks guys! Help has been great so far.
He also mentioned that the .22 is able to do LR and shorts supposedly. But I havent looked that up yet.
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03-20-2019, 05:03 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishwhere
Took a look at the shotgun today and it does have the manual ejection knob on it. Not sure how to do that yet, but im sure a little googling will do me good on that.
And to one of the other fellows talking about 2 3/4 shells - that was just confirmed by my grandpa. In saying that, am i able to buy those easily still? Or are they a weird size?
He also has some really old shells - any advisable time frame to use shells in, do they go bad?
Another question is are you allowed to hunt ducks etc witb the lead shot? I think it has to be steel right? Maybe thats how i started getting all of this confused.
Any suggestions for someone (gunsmith etc) in the edmonton area to look at the gun and maybe do some minor cleaning/maitenance.
Thanks guys! Help has been great so far.
He also mentioned that the .22 is able to do LR and shorts supposedly. But I havent looked that up yet.
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Once you have taken your PAL and Hunter Safety Course most of your questions will be answered.
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03-20-2019, 05:19 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
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Browning BPS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justfishin73
Never shoot steel though a full choke on any shotgun-EVER
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I have an early Browning BPS full choke that I have shot a lot of steel through.
Patterns better than my Citori with screw in chokes.
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03-20-2019, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 427
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Steel
i phoned Remington and they told me I could shoot up to 2 steel shot through my full choke 12 guage.
Patterns fine.
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