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  #31  
Old 02-08-2017, 06:42 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TylerThomson View Post
Lot of self righteous folk on here it seems. If you dint understand why people keep perch then you must not enjoy eating fish. As long as people aren't being wasteful and following the law then I see no problem with it. All the catch and release fishermen at hypocrites at best. You are catching fish and killing a portion of them even if by accident for no reason other than your own pleasure.
I see your point but lumping all us C&R fisherman together is insulting.
We as fisherman, are weaker without the other side. So there is no need for finger pointing by either side. Both have there good and bad points.

I have practiced catch an release since before it was the thing to do and I defend people(fisherman) that wish to eat them. I think it is in every ones best interest to defend the other side.

And I believe if it is at all possible, harvest should be allowed. And that is reflected in many of my posts.
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  #32  
Old 02-08-2017, 06:50 PM
TylerThomson TylerThomson is offline
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Kinda like lumping all fisherman together that choose to keep some fish. Or lumping all Albertans together for having a gotta get mine screw the rest mindset.

(I'm not directing that at you huntsfurfish)

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  #33  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:28 PM
Fishy Fishy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by RACKER View Post
I have always have kept the larger perch.I do not understand how the perch populations get depleted by sportfishing.With most lakes having a limit of 5 you would have to have every angler on the lake during the ice season take home their limit everytime they went out to put a dent in the population.I am not knowledged in fish biology so I would gladly like to hear from people that have scientific proof that fishing for perch has been proven to dessimate fish stocks.I have seen proof myself that shallower lakes winterkill fish and this makes sense that populations take a beating because of that.Another question I have is why a lake such as Wizard lake that has thousands of little perch and a very healthy pike population that there are no larger perch to be found regularly?
Perch populations (as most other fish populations) are depleted typically due to mismanagement. One of the biggest issues is the blind trust a sportsman puts into regulations and one who assumes it is anothers responsibility to manage the resource. Regulations allowing the harvest of any size of a species guarantees that the larger fish, which are more often than not mature breeding females and are typically in an older age class, are removed from the genetic pool of that fishery due to anglers keeping the biggest fish they are allowed to keep. Overtime, the largest fish with the best genetics, which would have allowed their predecessors to obtain a similar size, are all removed from the water and the mean size of fish within the population shrinks overtime, slowly overtime. If this occurs unchecked for a long period than the age class and genetic structure of said fishery becomes permanently altered or stunted. Now, unfortunately many people do not understand what a healthy fishery is as it is a subjective topic,let alone how to manage it, so they assume it is up to the government to make changes to the fishery and make possible the ability to catch the same trophy fish now as it was back in the day. If anglers knew that keeping every "good sized perch" was ultimately destroying their beloved fishery, they would most likely put back the big fish to spread their seed and enhance the fishery and keep the middle sized fish instead. The only way for this to occur is for the regulations in AB to be altered substantially. As for winter-kill, fisheries go through natural cycles, stocked or not, which depend on winter-kill for regrowth and regeneration, similar to a forest fires rejuvenating characteristics. No matter, the onus lies on the sportsman to educate themselves and put into practice the best of conservation practices regardless of the regulations; that is not to say disregard the regulations but when given the opportunity to keep a limit of 5 fish of any size of a species, use mindfulness, and choose wisely.
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  #34  
Old 02-08-2017, 09:16 PM
TylerThomson TylerThomson is offline
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Originally Posted by Fishy View Post
Perch populations (as most other fish populations) are depleted typically due to mismanagement. One of the biggest issues is the blind trust a sportsman puts into regulations and one who assumes it is anothers responsibility to manage the resource. Regulations allowing the harvest of any size of a species guarantees that the larger fish, which are more often than not mature breeding females and are typically in an older age class, are removed from the genetic pool of that fishery due to anglers keeping the biggest fish they are allowed to keep. Overtime, the largest fish with the best genetics, which would have allowed their predecessors to obtain a similar size, are all removed from the water and the mean size of fish within the population shrinks overtime, slowly overtime. If this occurs unchecked for a long period than the age class and genetic structure of said fishery becomes permanently altered or stunted. Now, unfortunately many people do not understand what a healthy fishery is as it is a subjective topic,let alone how to manage it, so they assume it is up to the government to make changes to the fishery and make possible the ability to catch the same trophy fish now as it was back in the day. If anglers knew that keeping every "good sized perch" was ultimately destroying their beloved fishery, they would most likely put back the big fish to spread their seed and enhance the fishery and keep the middle sized fish instead. The only way for this to occur is for the regulations in AB to be altered substantially. As for winter-kill, fisheries go through natural cycles, stocked or not, which depend on winter-kill for regrowth and regeneration, similar to a forest fires rejuvenating characteristics. No matter, the onus lies on the sportsman to educate themselves and put into practice the best of conservation practices regardless of the regulations; that is not to say disregard the regulations but when given the opportunity to keep a limit of 5 fish of any size of a species, use mindfulness, and choose wisely.

Your argument breaks down when you realize those big fish used to be medium fish and they have been contributing the same genetics since year 4 or 5. Got anything to back this up? I'd think habitat, oxygen levels, and food availability have a much higher impact on the stunting of fish and depletion of populations vs angling pressure.

I would suggest you look into the research done on the arctic grayling and how expansive it's range used to be compared to now.
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  #35  
Old 02-08-2017, 09:20 PM
FISHBATTEREDBEER FISHBATTEREDBEER is offline
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Define "big"?

We fish some lakes where 8-9" fish go back for bigger.
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  #36  
Old 02-08-2017, 11:36 PM
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RavYak RavYak is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerThomson View Post
Your argument breaks down when you realize those big fish used to be medium fish and they have been contributing the same genetics since year 4 or 5. Got anything to back this up? I'd think habitat, oxygen levels, and food availability have a much higher impact on the stunting of fish and depletion of populations vs angling pressure.

I would suggest you look into the research done on the arctic grayling and how expansive it's range used to be compared to now.
Why would that argument break down?

You go to a lake and catch 2 fish, you are only able to keep 1 of them. One is a 10 inch perch and the other is a 15 inch perch. Regarding the 10 inch perch lets arbitrarily say there is a 20% chance it has really good genetics, 20% chance of it being a mature runt and 60% chance of being an average perch. In one case you obviously are removing a good genetic breeder, in the other case you only have a 20% chance of doing so and the same chance of removing a runt. It is pretty obvious which one is the better choice for the fishery.

Similarly lets use cattle as an example. You have a healthy looking cow and a skinny cow and you want to keep one for breeding and butcher the other one. It might be tempting to butcher the healthy cow and hope the skinny cow will still give you good offspring but to do so would most likely be a poor decision in the long run.

Yes there are other reasons for stunting, over population/lack of food being the most obvious one that does significantly affect perch in particular but to dismiss the effects of artificial selection(which angling pressure has to be considered as) is extremely short sighted.
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  #37  
Old 02-08-2017, 11:46 PM
FishHunterPro FishHunterPro is offline
 
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Caught two 12" perch today and didn't have to think twice if I was keeping them or not. Seen both at different time jogging for walleye on the camera and had a trusty rod with light flouro on and the smallest 5 of diamonds on, sent that don't the hole both times with a minnow head and it was game over . I would take 14 more before I go home if I can .
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  #38  
Old 02-09-2017, 07:44 AM
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It's been proven perch have no issues with reproduction. The problem more often then not is is an overabundent supply of large predators, and extremely high fishing pressure. One cannot support the other wich ends with low fish populations. Better management is needed to fix the problem. Some lakes need high pressure on perch to keep population in check and others need higher pressure on predatory fish. Unfortunately this isn't how it's being managed in many cases
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  #39  
Old 02-09-2017, 08:34 AM
TylerThomson TylerThomson is offline
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Originally Posted by Fishy View Post
Perch populations (as most other fish populations) are depleted typically due to mismanagement. One of the biggest issues is the blind trust a sportsman puts into regulations and one who assumes it is anothers responsibility to manage the resource. Regulations allowing the harvest of any size of a species guarantees that the larger fish, which are more often than not mature breeding females and are typically in an older age class, are removed from the genetic pool of that fishery due to anglers keeping the biggest fish they are allowed to keep. Overtime, the largest fish with the best genetics, which would have allowed their predecessors to obtain a similar size, are all removed from the water and the mean size of fish within the population shrinks overtime, slowly overtime. If this occurs unchecked for a long period than the age class and genetic structure of said fishery becomes permanently altered or stunted. Now, unfortunately many people do not understand what a healthy fishery is as it is a subjective topic,let alone how to manage it, so they assume it is up to the government to make changes to the fishery and make possible the ability to catch the same trophy fish now as it was back in the day. If anglers knew that keeping every "good sized perch" was ultimately destroying their beloved fishery, they would most likely put back the big fish to spread their seed and enhance the fishery and keep the middle sized fish instead. The only way for this to occur is for the regulations in AB to be altered substantially. As for winter-kill, fisheries go through natural cycles, stocked or not, which depend on winter-kill for regrowth and regeneration, similar to a forest fires rejuvenating characteristics. No matter, the onus lies on the sportsman to educate themselves and put into practice the best of conservation practices regardless of the regulations; that is not to say disregard the regulations but when given the opportunity to keep a limit of 5 fish of any size of a species, use mindfulness, and choose wisely.
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Originally Posted by RavYak View Post
Why would that argument break down?

You go to a lake and catch 2 fish, you are only able to keep 1 of them. One is a 10 inch perch and the other is a 15 inch perch. Regarding the 10 inch perch lets arbitrarily say there is a 20% chance it has really good genetics, 20% chance of it being a mature runt and 60% chance of being an average perch. In one case you obviously are removing a good genetic breeder, in the other case you only have a 20% chance of doing so and the same chance of removing a runt. It is pretty obvious which one is the better choice for the fishery.

Similarly lets use cattle as an example. You have a healthy looking cow and a skinny cow and you want to keep one for breeding and butcher the other one. It might be tempting to butcher the healthy cow and hope the skinny cow will still give you good offspring but to do so would most likely be a poor decision in the long run.

Yes there are other reasons for stunting, over population/lack of food being the most obvious one that does significantly affect perch in particular but to dismiss the effects of artificial selection(which angling pressure has to be considered as) is extremely short sighted.
That big fishes genetics are in the pool already. Your cattle comparison is laughable. The only way it compares is I'd those two perch you caught were the only two perch available not to mention how far inbred most cattle lines already are.

Also thinking that angling pressure on perch has a larger effect than predation does on natural size selection considering how prolific of breeders they are is also laughable. Who takes more perch. Fisherman keeping only fish 10 inches or better or cormorants, walleye, pike and all their other natural predators?

When those predators are killing perch do you think they are taking the biggest, the smallest or whichever they can fit in their mouths the easiest?

Here since no one wants to go look it up.



https://www.google.ca/url?q=https://...9RD5JrpFTyKUUQ

This next one is just interesting reading material about the natural environment of perch and their habits etc.


https://www.google.ca/url?q=http://w...-ky_GDmQhnG5og

Like I said your argument breaks down.

Also as some bonus material do some reading on the difference between feral genetic distribution and stable lines in animals or plants. I'm not saying angling pressure doesn't put some natural selection on the size of fish but the amount it contributes is negligible.

Last edited by TylerThomson; 02-09-2017 at 08:41 AM.
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  #40  
Old 02-09-2017, 08:37 AM
TylerThomson TylerThomson is offline
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Here's another one on the effects of metal contamination in a lake.

Spoiler alert it changed the habitat reduced the food supply and stunted the entire population

https://www.google.ca/url?q=http://w...-ky_GDmQhnG5og
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  #41  
Old 02-09-2017, 01:20 PM
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FlyTheory FlyTheory is offline
 
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I have done both. Last time I kept 2 27cm perch. They should lower limits on lakes though, you people are right.
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  #42  
Old 02-09-2017, 01:54 PM
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I release 99% of the fish I catch. I have kept the odd perch for my wife, but unless i'm already decided to keep a fish or two for her, they all go back, regardless of size.

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  #43  
Old 02-12-2017, 09:41 PM
Fishy Fishy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TylerThomson View Post
Your argument breaks down when you realize those big fish used to be medium fish and they have been contributing the same genetics since year 4 or 5. Got anything to back this up? I'd think habitat, oxygen levels, and food availability have a much higher impact on the stunting of fish and depletion of populations vs angling pressure.

I would suggest you look into the research done on the arctic grayling and how expansive it's range used to be compared to now.
Habitat, DO levels, and forage of course play a large role in determining the maximum size of a fish a fishery can produce, as well as many other factors, but this thread is specific to angling pressure, hence my focus on such. As well my intent was not to compare which factor stunts a population to a greater degree but to answer a question that pertains specifically to perch populations, angling pressure and population stunting. It is not an argument I made up as it has been scientifically proven. And as a side note, this can go both ways; a stunted population can be rehabilitated by utilizing strategic angler pressure, its all in the management.
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