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Old 02-17-2018, 09:13 PM
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Default Gun Control in the US - Background Checks

Did not want to derail other thread or mix it with the Florida incident other than as a point of reference ...

I saw something on the news that said, essentially that the current administration reversed a law that had some provisions including background checks that likely would have prevented the perpetrator from acquiring a weapon (or at least made it significantly more difficult as some will likely argue).

The story also showed that 95% of the US citizens support background checks and over 66% of gun owners also support this ......

So why in the world would you reverse this law? Was there additional provisions that were unpalatable in the same bill or was this just a stupid and senseless reversal of something "Obama" did that dear old Trump wants to undo just because of his ego and narcissistic attempts to undo anything and everything the former administration achieved (for better or worse).

Just curious to hear from people here who might be more up to speed on the details here .....
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:25 PM
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From what I understand, the guy doesn't have a history of mental illness, they are suggesting he was mentally ill because of his actions. I doubt the law would have impeded his ability to obtain a firearm at all.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:30 PM
Carriertxv Carriertxv is offline
 
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I’m sure Trump will be blamed for pulling the trigger soon.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:31 PM
densa44 densa44 is offline
 
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Default There are a number of possibilities...

You will get answers that imply plots of various kinds, just like in other posts but if you saw how they passed the 700 page budget with hand written margin notes, many (all) of the politicians didn't read it.

Here is my opinion, and I'm quoting my father who worked in government all his life; "never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomenon equally well".

Thus, I know that they passed the bill but with all the other provisions I don't think that they knew that they made it possible to the mentally ill to legally buy firearms.

I know it is a terrible way to run a government but it happens everywhere.

Now the problem is and it is a BIG one, who wants to admit that they voted for a bill and didn't read it.

In other situations, not politics, they blame the gardener and move on.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
So why in the world would you reverse this law? Was there additional provisions that were unpalatable in the same bill or was this just a stupid and senseless reversal of something "Obama" did that dear old Trump wants to undo just because of his ego and narcissistic attempts to undo anything and everything the former administration achieved (for better or worse).
The NRA and other groups/people oppose any and all changes to gun laws down there no matter how much sense they make.

You don't even need a license to purchase a firearm in many states. Completely ridiculous and it is not surprising that they have the highest firearm related issues of any developed nation.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:39 PM
hilt134 hilt134 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Did not want to derail other thread or mix it with the Florida incident other than as a point of reference ...

I saw something on the news that said, essentially that the current administration reversed a law that had some provisions including background checks that likely would have prevented the perpetrator from acquiring a weapon (or at least made it significantly more difficult as some will likely argue).

The story also showed that 95% of the US citizens support background checks and over 66% of gun owners also support this ......

So why in the world would you reverse this law? Was there additional provisions that were unpalatable in the same bill or was this just a stupid and senseless reversal of something "Obama" did that dear old Trump wants to undo just because of his ego and narcissistic attempts to undo anything and everything the former administration achieved (for better or worse).

Just curious to hear from people here who might be more up to speed on the details here .....

From what I understand is that the lawthey repealed was if a person is deemed to be unable to do one thing for mental or physical reason they should also be considered unable to buy a gun. There was also an issue with the balance of power and mixing of different government departments.

It's a few days after a shooting so any news is going to be skewed fact is the law had little to do with actual mental health. Ben Shapiro talked about it. The guys pretty factual and he tells you his bias so I'd trust him more than most.

I think the basis was that if you where old and considered unable to take care of your own money you shouldn't be able to own a gun. But in America the firearm owner ship in a constitutional right and that created an issue
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:11 PM
bobalong bobalong is offline
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Move on folks just another lame anti-gun, anti-trump, anti-NRA, thread.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:16 PM
hogie hogie is offline
 
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Unsure of this law, but it sounds like they should have flagged him as not being able to legally get a firearm. They made a big mistake. Should be some major fallout and inquiries into this.
There is a few articles out there condemning the FBI for this.

Like anything too many biased non fact filled stories that come out right after. Takes a few days to get the truth or close to it.

Heard there was 18 school shootings this year. Reported by a anti gun group. An actual news article came out after proving that they lied on some of them.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.78b1e9dd318a
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:18 PM
hilt134 hilt134 is offline
 
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Move on folks just another lame anti-gun, anti-trump, anti-NRA, thread.
Well guns are good.trump is meh and the NRA is garbage. Also conversation is the best part because all of these aspects need changes if we just ignore it things will always suck
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:48 PM
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Unsure of this law, but it sounds like they should have flagged him as not being able to legally get a firearm. They made a big mistake. Should be some major fallout and inquiries into this.
There is a few articles out there condemning the FBI for this.
They knew this guy was a ticking time bomb, they were watching him but did nothing.!the USA has issues with their laws, they need to be able to prevent a wingnut like this guy from getting a gun, they also probably need to get him help. It seems a lot of these guys they know about but take no steps to prevent these things from happening. We have our own ticking time bombs here (100+ returns from Isis) I’m sure that will go well. It sucks when governments don’t act in the interest of the people.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:17 PM
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A part of discussing the mass shootings in the USA has to include discussion regarding guns because they are a part of the equation. But, the phenomenon which is prevalent in the USA is complicated by the culture that has resulted in a general desensitization regarding gun violence. Canadians are different in that respect.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
A part of discussing the mass shootings in the USA has to include discussion regarding guns because they are a part of the equation. But, the phenomenon which is prevalent in the USA is complicated by the culture that has resulted in a general desensitization regarding gun violence. Canadians are different in that respect.
Yes and no

My nephews wife is a nurse , got a job in Wetaskiwin in the ER. She was told to expect to see gunshot wounds on a regular basis. I think we don't hear much about gun violence on purpose. She didn't stay their very long.

I think there is probably more going on that what we actually know. Many things are not reported if they happen In certain areas. Local papers will report but that's as far as it goes.

Lots of violence that happens without guns that never makes the news. I think we are getting to used to hearing about violence that it doesn't surprise people anymore. Guns , stabbings beatings. Not always a death involved but people being hurt.

Depending on where you live will also make a difference, I grew up around Wetaskiwin and not many thing surprise me.

US has a problem, how to fix it is beyond banning or restricting a firearm. Taking the tool away won't solve the problem. How to fix the problem is something that I can't comprehend because it is a senseless act.

Perhaps violence shouldn't be glorified in the media, music and Hollywood?
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:19 AM
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Pretty much Trump rolled back Obama’s law that said that they could take your guns if anyone accused you of being mentally ill. Trump made it so that the accuser has to prove that you were mentally unfit before they could take your guns. Due process.

Much like someone saying that I did something, so they take my guns before I have a chance to defend myself. Guilty before innocent.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:33 AM
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Pretty much Trump rolled back Obama’s law that said that they could take your guns if anyone accused you of being mentally ill. Trump made it so that the accuser has to prove that you were mentally unfit before they could take your guns. Due process.

Much like someone saying that I did something, so they take my guns before I have a chance to defend myself. Guilty before innocent.

Do you ever fact check yourself? Google can be your friend ya know. Pretty easy stuff to find.


"President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.

President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:40 AM
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Do you ever fact check yourself? Google can be your friend ya know. Pretty easy stuff to find.


"President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.

President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.
And what’s missing from that excerpt is that there is no due process for those people. If you are put on that list, it is done arbitrarily.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:33 AM
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And what’s missing from that excerpt is that there is no due process for those people. If you are put on that list, it is done arbitrarily.

What due process should occur so those with mental issues are prohibited from buying guns?

Total waste of time and money to the point it's hard to believe it's even a discussion point for some people. Sorry but not everyone should be allowed to own firearms despite the NRA's wishes.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:42 AM
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What due process should occur so those with mental issues are prohibited from buying guns?



Total waste of time and money to the point it's hard to believe it's even a discussion point for some people. Sorry but not everyone should be allowed to own firearms despite the NRA's wishes.


They should have to see a shrink and the shrink will determine if they are able to own a firearm. I don’t like the government being able to confiscate private property because someone in social services who doesn’t specialize in mental health says so.


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Old 02-18-2018, 03:08 AM
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They should have to see a shrink and the shrink will determine if they are able to own a firearm. I don’t like the government being able to confiscate private property because someone in social services who doesn’t specialize in mental health says so.


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How exactly do you think they qualify for social security checks for mental illness?
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:43 AM
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Move on folks just another lame anti-gun, anti-trump, anti-NRA, thread.
Yes you're right more tots and pears that's the best answer.
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:46 AM
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Move on folks just another lame anti-gun, anti-trump, anti-NRA, thread.
Yup.....
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:29 AM
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What due process should occur so those with mental issues are prohibited from buying guns?

Total waste of time and money to the point it's hard to believe it's even a discussion point for some people. Sorry but not everyone should be allowed to own firearms despite the NRA's wishes.
The management of this is beyond the resources of the medical system.
Everyone one of us would need to be examined and at what level of mental health issues would a permit revoke occur?
It's easy to sit back and say "that guy was crazy, why was he allowed to purchase".
What about the ones that are not so obvious and managed to hide their symptoms?
It would also drive those in need mental health treatment underground, again making the management of it more difficult.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:00 AM
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As stated, Trump's intent was to give due process to people wanting to purchase firearms. Previously people were arbitrarily denied. Is that what we want?
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:05 AM
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What about all those that go out hunting loaded up with booze, are they mentally fit to be handling a gun? Come across hunters, check them for alcohol, above 0.5, take away their firearms. Sounds reasonable, no.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:32 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
What due process should occur so those with mental issues are prohibited from buying guns?

Total waste of time and money to the point it's hard to believe it's even a discussion point for some people. Sorry but not everyone should be allowed to own firearms despite the NRA's wishes.
What if one is perfectly fine mentally, but someone else alleges that they are mentally unfit? Sorry, but there needs to be checks and balances.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:44 AM
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Move on folks just another lame anti-gun, anti-trump, anti-NRA, thread.
Yes, bury your head in the sand, accept everything as is, don't dare question/discuss any issues and blindly believe what we tell you to believe right? lol.

Yeah - I dislike Trump, maybe don't even like the NRA but calling me anti-gun just clearly demonstrates your complete lack of intellectual capacity.

If you can't accept that someone who is a gun owner, hunter, etc. ALSO wants to have controls and legislation in place to protect people without the infringement of his/her rights of ownership you need to wake up. A common sense balance is possible and it's really not that difficult to understand.

If you have nothing to add to the discussion - keep your bitter and ignorant comments to yourself.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:48 AM
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The NRA and other groups/people oppose any and all changes to gun laws down there no matter how much sense they make.

You don't even need a license to purchase a firearm in many states. Completely ridiculous and it is not surprising that they have the highest firearm related issues of any developed nation.
In a private sale. But who's to say Mike is checking Steves PAL here at home?

FFL's (?) do require paperwork and background checks.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:17 AM
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How exactly do you think they qualify for social security checks for mental illness?

Game, set, match!
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:02 PM
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Your ignorance of guns becomes more obvious with every one of your anti gun posts. You do know that a glue gun does not qualify you as a gun owner right? As totally misguided as your comments are at least they are becoming somewhat comical. Carry on with your anti gun rant Skippy but I will waste no more time with you.
What anti gun posts? I have never been anti-gun, nor do I ever recall any position I have taken to be anti-gun. I asked a question I was genuinely interested in. Your paranoia and delusion led you to believe I was trolling with some sort of agenda. Way to go bud - this is PRECISELY why people like YOU divide us as a group.

Now if you have nothing productive to say - and you want to resort to attacking, provoking and inaccurately labelling people - go find somewhere else to play. We don't need you here on this forum.

People like you, your ignorant comments detract from this forum, alienate members with thoughtful opinions or questions and create an environment of harassment and cause people to hesitate in participating on this forum.

People like you, quite frankly, are bullies that need to be banned.

I was asking a legit question.

I am a gun owner who believes that there are ways for there to be working balance between the protection of the public through some regulation/screenings whilst allowing gun owners to have protections and rights.

I like the laws and regulations as they exist here, today, in Canada.

My questions was related to the situation in the US with regulation / appropriate screening.

If you are unable to comprehend or understand those simple concepts I can't help you.

Thanks again for once again derailing yet another thread, attacking yet another member and moving yourself one step closer to a time out.

Last edited by EZM; 02-18-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:20 PM
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:01 PM
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Trying to have another law in place in these situations is almost impossible. The majority of the ones doing mass shootings don't have a criminal record. This latest shooting and the church shooting in Texas both may have been prevented if the current laws were followed.

More has to be done with social media posts of violence. He posted that he was going to be a future school shooter, classmates could believe he was capable. Many weren't surprised that he did it. Maybe the FBI should have done more. The warning signs were there and ignored.

Had a cop friend tell me one time you can't stop crazy.

Even in Canada with our laws someone can still go on a shooting rampage. Happened in Dawson college. With legally purchased restricted and non restricted firearms.

Gun violence is always focuses on guns. As soon as there is a shooting it all about what gun is used. When someone drives through a crowd with a truck the type of truck is not an issue. Maybe if there was less focus on the tools being used there could be better ideas on how to treat people with mental disorders.

What's changed in the last 20 years. Guns are the same. Now we have internet, social media, far more use of drugs for mental illness. Maybe some of theses are factors in mass shootings.
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