Why the 6.5 PRC is the bomb for long range hunting.

[41thunder]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Pretty easy to say when you’ve seen it first hand. And many examples just like it. You can find example after example. Magnums poking holes and 308/30-06 based cartridges leveling critters. Pretty common info you find anywhere to show you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Dude...you’ve prolly seen it too, just not paying attention. It’s not about the terminal energy or the diameter or the weight nearly as much as it’s about terminal velocity, sd, and construction. You will never understand, time to move on man.✌️

Yep I’ve seen them poke holes. Like softball size or better.
I’m just going to agree to disagree. Where’s the face palm button?

[Don_Parsons]

Thx SC, I don't think / hope that it doesn't muddy the waters. I hear what your saying.

All good

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by 41thunder

There’s a phrase in here that I’d like to quote “should do the same thing”. Should doesn’t mean it will. I have a 6.5x284, I love it. But it has limitations. You honestly can’t say that a 300 win, Shooting a bullet at the exact same speed, with 75 more grains of lead Won’t perform better on game(215 Berger vs 140). If this gets you upset you need a new hobby. It’s just a cartridge. And we are both free to use what we prefer. There’s lots of wolves out there by rimbey. A prc would work great

I will likely regret not having put you on my "ignore list" as I am compelled to answer this post.

When I say " should do the same thing" it is because the 143 ELD-X in 6.5CM Precision Hunter is because it is a hunting bullet of very similar size, SD and IV, in fact a bit better than my 140/145 grain loads in 7mm08 handloads. I would say the same thing about the Win 180 PPP in 30-06 and the 150 Win PP in the 300 Win Mag but it is only good to 495 yards to get 1110 ft. lbs. TE. I will post a chart that should make it simpler for you to figure out. It looks like the STW almost made the grade with the Win 150 PP factory load . The chart will also make it easy to see that the Hornady 212 Eld-X load for the 300 WM reaches its 1800 fps IV at 840 yards compared to 865 yards for the 143 Eld-X load in 6.5 PRC. So yes I can honestly say that the 300 Win Mag will not perform better than the 6.5 PRC as the PRC will get more penetration although it will likely be right through indicating that it had more than enough TE at Recommended IV. The 300 Wm may not penetrate right through and drop all of its energy in the wound channel and cause a lot more meat damage but the game will not be any more dead.

I would not have gotten upset if I was wrong and hopefully you will be gracious enough to accept the fact that I was right. What does get me upset are the irrelevant posts like "You do know they also sell it in 338 300 and 7mm ", "If this gets you upset you need a new hobby" and many others in the past.
[IMG][/IMG]

[41thunder]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

I will likely regret not having put you on my "ignore list" as I am compelled to answer this post.

When I say " should do the same thing" it is because the 143 ELD-X in 6.5CM Precision Hunter is because it is a hunting bullet of very similar size, SD and IV, in fact a bit better than my 140/145 grain loads in 7mm08 handloads. I would say the same thing about the Win 180 PPP in 30-06 and the 150 Win PP in the 300 Win Mag but it is only good to 495 yards to get 1110 ft. lbs. TE. I will post a chart that should make it simpler for you to figure out. It looks like the STW almost made the grade with the Win 150 PP factory load . The chart will also make it easy to see that the Hornady 212 Eld-X load for the 300 WM reaches its 1800 fps IV at 840 yards compared to 865 yards for the 143 Eld-X load in 6.5 PRC. So yes I can honestly say that the 300 Win Mag will not perform better than the 6.5 PRC as the PRC will get more penetration although it will likely be right through indicating that it had more than enough TE at Recommended IV. The 300 Wm may not penetrate right through and drop all of its energy in the wound channel and cause a lot more meat damage but the game will not be any more dead.

I would not have gotten upset if I was wrong and hopefully you will be gracious enough to accept the fact that I was right. What does get me upset are the irrelevant posts like "You do know they also sell it in 338 300 and 7mm ", "If this gets you upset you need a new hobby" and many others in the past.
[IMG][/IMG]

How many animals have you harvested with a 6.5?

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

I will likely regret not having put you on my "ignore list" as I am compelled to answer this post.

When I say " should do the same thing" it is because the 143 ELD-X in 6.5CM Precision Hunter is because it is a hunting bullet of very similar size, SD and IV, in fact a bit better than my 140/145 grain loads in 7mm08 handloads. I would say the same thing about the Win 180 PPP in 30-06 and the 150 Win PP in the 300 Win Mag but it is only good to 495 yards to get 1110 ft. lbs. TE. I will post a chart that should make it simpler for you to figure out. It looks like the STW almost made the grade with the Win 150 PP factory load . The chart will also make it easy to see that the Hornady 212 Eld-X load for the 300 WM reaches its 1800 fps IV at 840 yards compared to 865 yards for the 143 Eld-X load in 6.5 PRC. So yes I can honestly say that the 300 Win Mag will not perform better than the 6.5 PRC as the PRC will get more penetration although it will likely be right through indicating that it had more than enough TE at Recommended IV. The 300 Wm may not penetrate right through and drop all of its energy in the wound channel and cause a lot more meat damage but the game will not be any more dead.

I would not have gotten upset if I was wrong and hopefully you will be gracious enough to accept the fact that I was right. What does get me upset are the irrelevant posts like "You do know they also sell it in 338 300 and 7mm ", "If this gets you upset you need a new hobby" and many others in the past.
[IMG][/IMG]

Do you believe a smaller wound channel and a pass through is more effective than a larger wound channel and bullet left inside the animal? A kill zone vital shot woundn’t matter of course but how about those shots that just barely miss their mark via (wind, deflection, nerves, etc).

[Don_Parsons]

I'm not sure if a bullet with the same SD would perform as others with the same SD values.

I kind of follow along with what Chunk's link suggests.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

Of course there is Nathan's take on this,,, 10's of thousands of culling harvests around the globe.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...e+Killing.html

Both of them suggest that high SD with mass and velocities seem to work,,, same as the heavy fast bullets with smaller diameter's...

Purhaps both bullets work,,, benefits in a few categories here,,, maybe some at the other end of the scale...

All good points looking at it none the less.

Lucky for my hunting partner and I that things happen at close range,,, of course that line in the snow has been placed further back over the years.

All good on the adventures that bring home the goods,,, Ha,,, the transportation dude out here is taking care of the shipments we need this year. Ha.

Extra costs if we include the ears & tails,,, no hooves allowed on the packing slip.

Ye Ha

[Dick284]

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

No kidding.
We have seen a lot of cartridges come and go over the years, some died and some resurrected.
Between new factory stuff and the "latest greatest" wildcats one has a hard time keeping up .
It's amazing that we killed anything 40 years ago or even ten years ago with the archaic crap we were shooting.
It has never been so difficult to choose a cartridge and rifle too drop a deer or moose at 300 yards !
Cat

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

No kidding.
We have seen a lot of cartridges come and go over the years, some died and some resurrected.
Between new factory stuff and the "latest greatest" wildcats one has a hard time keeping up .
It's amazing that we killed anything 40 years ago or even ten years ago with the archaic crap we were shooting.
It has never been so difficult to choose a cartridge and rifle too drop a deer or moose at 300 yards !
Cat

Amen brother!
How a 7 millimeter projectile of Partition like performance of between 140 grains and 150 grains travelling anywhere from 2800-3000 FPS isn’t nearly enough for what we typically hunting in Alberta, is beyond me.
(insert any reasonable caliber bullet)

We all have our favourite cartridges, and that’s akin to a blonde vs brunette, or Ford vs Chevy discussion.
But.

What gets me is the level of evangelism that circulates around certain cartridges and their fan base.

It can’t be healthy, to be that wrapped up in pushing your beliefs or likes upon others.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Do you believe a smaller wound channel and a pass through is more effective than a larger wound channel and bullet left inside the animal? A kill zone vital shot woundn’t matter of course but how about those shots that just barely miss their mark via (wind, deflection, nerves, etc).

How does one even quantify effectiveness in a hunting situation?

Is the shot that stuns an animal which then remains standing for several seconds and then collapses with no pulse or brain activity any more effective then one that knocks an animal off it's feet only to lie there conscious for several seconds before pulse and brain activity ceases.

How would one even monitor vital signs in a hunting situation?

I understand the value of information gathered through ballistic gel tests but animals are not made of ballistics gel, so such information has it's limits.

It seems to me that SD calculations would be similarly limited in usefulness.
I would think it rare for a bullet to retain it's SD as it travels through an animal and if it changes as I believe it would, how would one discover at what rate and how much that SD would change?

If an animal had a consistent density maybe. But they don't. It varies and it varies additionally according to the bullets path.

How would one determine what effect different weights, construction, and SD had on the rate of change in a hunting situation.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

How does one even quantify effectiveness in a hunting situation?

Is the shot that stuns an animal which then remains standing for several seconds and then collapses with no pulse or brain activity any more effective then one that knocks an animal off it's feet only to lie there conscious for several seconds before pulse and brain activity ceases.

How would one even monitor vital signs in a hunting situation?

I understand the value of information gathered through ballistic gel tests but animals are not made of ballistics gel, so such information has it's limits.

It seems to me that SD calculations would be similarly limited in usefulness.
I would think it rare for a bullet to retain it's SD as it travels through an animal and if it changes as I believe it would, how would one discover at what rate and how much that SD would change?

If an animal had a consistent density maybe. But they don't. It varies and it varies additionally according to the bullets path.

How would one determine what effect different weights, construction, and SD had on the rate of change in a hunting situation.

Totally ! Sd is a number and that number doesn't kill anything . It contributes to the BC calculation, which becomes important as the range increases. That's all !
Using a heavy for caliber bullet to suit resistance and terminal distance will provide all that is required, SD included... bullet construction being equal. Results aren't misleading. Nothing new here and I doubt that fact will ever change.

[Stinky Coyote]

The only way to compare is to assume whatever bullets you’re comparing are of same construction and will change sd at same rate.

Putting same weight barnes against a ballistic tip in same cartridge would show very different results, then compound the variables of the animals and one may out perform the other for certain hits while the other may dominate other types of hits.

These discussions all have to make some assumptions. The actual results on game vary wildly.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

The only way to compare is to assume whatever bullets you’re comparing are of same construction and will change sd at same rate.

Putting same weight barnes against a ballistic tip in same cartridge would show very different results, then compound the variables of the animals and one may out perform the other for certain hits while the other may dominate other types of hits.

These discussions all have to make some assumptions. The actual results on game vary wildly.

Just need to stop comparing as the number of assumptions are insane.. Enjoy what we have and make proper shots. Dead will be dead.

[catnthehat]

it Has been said before , just because someone thinks the Glockenspiel extreme is the greatest cartridge in the World doesn’t mean it will win matches or kill animals - the nut behind the bolt is responsible for that.

Cat

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by 41thunder

How many animals have you harvested with a 6.5?

And what would that have to do with how bullets perform on animals. I have already stated that I have seen more than my share of animals shot and included examples of 4 moose shot with the Archaic crap that we were shooting, as Cat put it, in this case more than 50 years ago. That is why I included the Win PPP Factory loads for comparison, which were likely preceded by Dominion or Imperial Power Points but my memory is getting a bit foggy on that. These bullets are still around for a good reason and I have no doubt that the Hornady ELDX bullets, regardless of cartridge or caliber, will perform as good or better judging by what I have seen on ballistic gelatin tests and real results on You Tube. I know Kamran Sheik and the video he posted on, AO shows, the 143 ELD-X to be effective to 450-500 yards on elk. Kamran was using a 6.5 X 284 so expect the results to be similar to the Video Posted on Rokslide showing a lady killing an Elk to 715 yards with a 6.5PRC. Apparently the 147 ELD M was up to the task as would the 143 ELDX if hand loaded to 3000+ fps in a 6.5PRC as IV and TE would be about equal. I would expect the Hornady, 300 Win Mag, 200 ELDX Factory load to perform much that same, at that distance, as IV and TE would be comparable.

Looking at the chart I posted you find that the loads I posted, that gave one shot kills on moose to 600 yards, IV of 1668 - 1894 and TE from 885 to 1115.
I had established earlier that at least one esteemed, although perhaps archaic, gun writer set the minimum TE requirements at around 800 ft. lbs. and I agreed as The 270 Win with 130 Win PPP bullets penetrated right through at 885ft. lbs. with 1751 fps IV. Perhaps the wound channel was a bit bigger with the 30-06 & the 180 PPP that did not penetrate through even though it had the same TE as the 140 grain bullet in the 7mm08 but the moose died just the same. I hope that answers your question AndrewM and I won't comment on the bad shot situation because it does not factor into the equation as a bad shot is a bad shot. Like my father said, when he shot that 600 yard moose with the old 30-06 BSA about 55 years ago, "There is nothing like a well placed shot".

Yes Dick284 you are right in your statement, "Amen brother!
How a 7 millimeter projectile of Partition like performance of between 140 grains and 150 grains travelling anywhere from 2800-3000 FPS isn’t nearly enough for what we typically hunting in Alberta, is beyond me.
(insert any reasonable caliber bullet"
but what we are trying to establish here is that any bullet, regardless of cartridge or caliber with similar construction, SD, IV and TE will perform the same when placed through both lungs of any game animal as they will be dead. I have went to all this trouble, in spite of the BS that has shut down many threads and had one removed when I made my first attempt point this out, when SC attempted to do exactly this. All of the crap about the 6.5 Grendel not being what he found it to be when he reported on it, like you are bragging or ridiculing him on the results of his unnecessary follow up shots, seem to be the norm when someone presents facts that some people are not willing to accept. I even remember someone suggesting that some of us were making the 6.5CM into something it wasn't when actually they were trying to make us believe that their pet cartridge was something that" it wasn't" as it was bigger. The facts point out that the 7mm-08 is just as effective when handloaded with the proper bullets than many popular Factory (Win Power Point) ammo including the 308, 30-30 Win, 30-06 Spring, 270 Win, and 7mm STW. The facts show that the Hornady Percision Hunter 6.5CM ammo is perhaps better than some of my 7mm-08 hand loads, to 600 yards, indicating that it is likely better than most expected or portrayed. The same thing seems to be happening with this thread, about the 6.5 PRC, with the bullies ignoring the facts that they don't want to believe.

The chart I posted yesterday makes it easy to see how Effective Range (Yards) can be determined using SD, IV and how TE can help determine which Cartridge/Bullet combinations is the Bigger or Most effective. Again I will emphasize that Magnum Adventures used RE and TE to decide which Cartridge/Ammo combination was best suited for their club rifle and the type of shooting that they intended. I am not saying that everyone has to choose the 6.5 PRC as they did but suggesting a better way than using emotion to do the job. I have no stock in the matter, as I am no longer able to hunt, but will say that Hornady's offerings are the way of the future as they chose not to stay in the Pasture".

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

The only way to compare is to assume whatever bullets you’re comparing are of same construction and will change sd at same rate.

Putting same weight barnes against a ballistic tip in same cartridge would show very different results, then compound the variables of the animals and one may out perform the other for certain hits while the other may dominate other types of hits.

These discussions all have to make some assumptions. The actual results on game vary wildly.

As noted in my post .."bullet construction being equal"

[AndrewM]

It would take less energy for a smaller bullet to penetrate due to the smaller surface area. That could potentially change your minimum energy calculation as well.
I can’t shoot that far so doesn’t affect any of my calculations. Lol

[41thunder]

The scientific method

At the core of biology and other sciences lies a problem-solving approach called the scientific method. The scientific method has five basic steps, plus one feedback step:
Make an observation.
Ask a question.
Form a hypothesis, or testable explanation.
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis.
Test the prediction.
Iterate: use the results to make new hypotheses or predictions.

I know the numbers. I’ve studied and looked at them for years. I’m trying to catch up to others that are in the testing stage. That’s where the info from broz and the LRO guys is incredible. Same with the info from the guys at gunwerks. I understand your chart and where your coming from. Theoretically if the 6.5 prc knocks an elk down drt 60% of the time, 20% of the time dead within 50 yards, 20% more than 50 yards. Where a 300 will do 75% drt, 15% <50 yards, 10% >50 yards. I’ll take the 300 everyday. So im not saying it won’t work.

[LongBomber]

The 6.5PRC does one thing that most of the other 6.5's don't. It pushes the 143eldx right near the maximum speed where it is effective at long range and does not "blow up" when used under 100yards. That is a nice spot to be, just a tad above a 6.5-284, and a couple hundred fps below the 26 nosler/6.5-300w. The 26 really performs the best with copper mono bullets that can take the forces generated, I could dust the lighter vld's from mine. And testing in my bullet box had all the vld/eld bullets being nothing but scrapnel under 200 yards. The LRAB had a bit of shank left, the 127lrx performed well. Those same vld/eld bullets hold together at 6.5-284 speeds.
Now if Lapua would bring out some PRC brass I might be interested in getting one!

[KegRiver]

I get the theory behind the SD argument, and agree, the theory is correct.

To an exent it does apply in hunting, but there are too many veriables in hunting for it to be the final answer.

I can see where bullets of equal SD would penetrate to the same depth in theory.
But penertration alone is not the only consideration in a hunting situation.

First. Bullet construction varies as per the manufactuerer idea of intended use.
So a bullet designed for use on large thick skinned animals is designed to expand (change sectioal density) much slower then a bullet of equal SD designed for small thin skinned animals. And therefor the first bullet should penetrate much further then the second bullet even though they are of equal SD

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by LongBomber

The 6.5PRC does one thing that most of the other 6.5's don't. It pushes the 143eldx right near the maximum speed where it is effective at long range and does not "blow up" when used under 100yards. That is a nice spot to be, just a tad above a 6.5-284, and a couple hundred fps below the 26 nosler/6.5-300w. The 26 really performs the best with copper mono bullets that can take the forces generated, I could dust the lighter vld's from mine. And testing in my bullet box had all the vld/eld bullets being nothing but scrapnel under 200 yards. The LRAB had a bit of shank left, the 127lrx performed well. Those same vld/eld bullets hold together at 6.5-284 speeds.
Now if Lapua would bring out some PRC brass I might be interested in getting one!

[BIt pushes the 143eldx right near the maximum speed where it is effective at long range and does not "blow up" when used under 100yards][/B]
That statement is really what the 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC are all about. Moderate MV and ME with bullets running SD .293 much like the 160 in 7mm and 180 in 30 caliber and mushrooming perfectly at Minimum IV of 1800 fps. This means that they will penetrate the same as the 7mm and 30 Cal bullets and work perfectly from under 100 yards and great to 600 yards and 750 yards on game with minimum recoil. Combine this with tight tolerances as Hornady have done and you come up with a couple of great cartridges for lightweight hunting rifles like the True Magnum Adventure Rifle. The 6.5 CM for under 600 yards or the 6.5 PRC to 750 + as Jams Brion explained in the video I posted.

You are right about the 26 Nosler and the LRAB bullets and I believe I touched on that in post #68. The LRAB bullets, having a 1300 fps IV, means that they are of a much too light construction to be used at the 26 Noslers high MV which makes them a poor choice in a lightweight rifle intended for 750 + Yard range. They would however be good in the 6.5 PRC especially at ranges between 750 and 1000 yards for deer sized game. That is the plan for my 270 PHC as both the 145 ELD and 150 LRAB bullets are a perfect fit at velocities they are designed for.

Your last statement about Lapus Brass is unfounded as Hornady Brass has held up to over 10 hot firings, in the PRC ,according to Games Gardner. A fellow in California, who owns the second rifle in my 6.5 EXTREME had this to say, Brass not weighed. Hornady brass is excellent! " He then added this I especially appreciate the number of firings I get with my brass, some as many as ten times without noticeable expansion. I still have some guns in the 25 - 284 caliber range that I am selling. No need for them now. Pageot (I own the second 6.5 EXTREME
and finally this: I want to add these thoughts:
1) I'm certain the 6.5 Extreme can push the 140 Berger to over 3100 fps.;
2) I have a decent load (61.5 R25)behind the 140 SGK that yields 3196 with 21ES/15SD, and 61.0 of R25 with CCIBR gives me .4's routinely at 3125 fps;
3) the 140 Berger, I believe, has a velocity node for max accuracy at around 3030 fps. The next node might be out there too far to reach with my Extreme. Anyway, I haven't found it yet. And, btw, I have no problems with vertical stringing. In fact, I can put a 11/2" circle over virtually every group I've shot so far at 100 yards and cover it;
4) I will hunt with the 130 Barnes at 3100 fps yielding consistent sub quarter minute targets from the bench;
5) brass life is a real consideration for me with the cost as high as it is. And quality brass is often hard to get. The 6.5 Extreme is very friendly in this regard with the excellent Hornady brass easy to obtain;
6) It isn't necessary to go through the steps of reducing neck size that Laverne has used. I lube and reduce from .308 to .264 in one step with no problems. I'm using Hornady One Shot;
7) The sectional density of the 6.5 bullet interested me in this caliber. The Swedes kill more meat (moose and caribou) with this little bullet than any other because they can shoot it accurately and the bullets penetrate to the vitals and more. And, they are shooting the bullets (160's)at about 2400-2600 fps;
8) I have a custom 6.5x300WSM. It is a nice gun. Anyone want to buy it cheap? Enough said there;
9) I think the design concepts of the Extreme will be taken up in the future just as Ackley's "improvements" have been. Laverne has proven to me that he knows what he is doing.

I've been playing with wildcats in 7mm for some time now. After all I've done there I would simply settle on the 284 Win for accuracy and excellent velocity. My formula would be 160 Sierra GK's over 54.5 4350 in a 26' barrel for .250 accuracy at 2900 fps. Otherwise, I would really like to build one of Laverne's 7mm Extremes.

This was about 9 years ago long before the 6.5 PRC was even conceived. I designed the EXTREME for myself and guys like Pageot (Dave Buck) in
California who would share my vision of the furure. Thankfully I don't think it will take another 10 years for it to take off as it already has and Bertram Brass is available. I believe the future is here for the 6.5.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

It would take less energy for a smaller bullet to penetrate due to the smaller surface area. That could potentially change your minimum energy calculation as well.
I can’t shoot that far so doesn’t affect any of my calculations. Lol

I think the greater momentum of the heavier bullet, due to greater mass, would offset any xtra expenditure of energy. Not sure the penetration calcs would change... just a thought. Need a ballistician.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

The PRC uses about 10 more grains of powder and has a good 100 FPS advantage over the 6.5-284. That being said I won’t be selling my 6.5-284 anytime soon.

I Have rifles in BOTH the 6.5 PRC is MAX at 60 gr depending on what powder behind a 143 ELDX and the 6.5 -284 is up to 55 grains with LESS then 100 fps so far with the same lenght barrel BUT i have just started with the PRC will know more in a month or so ! SO HOLD onto your NORMA ! RJ

[JD848]

If I was to have read some of these posts 45 years ago I would have thought someone got into bad lot of LSD.You could drive yourself nuts trying to figure out if the moose or deer is breathing in or not and what damage the sd will create on it's lungs and penetration.

They all died 40 years ago without all this stuff,but back then there where hunters who hunted to get close to there prey and 300 yards was a long shot and there's still plenty of good hunters still around 45 years later.

I like to see the color of the fur of my moose when I shoot it,young or older bulls with grey hairs I pass up due to health problems,if he is nice and black and shiny like a fine healthy horse down he goes.To many herbicides or pesticides that destroys livers and high wolf populated areas spreading parasites into there drinking holes that get into there systems making them sick and I find them unfit to eat.

So why all this long range stuff,if a young bull busts a knee when he is a calf he pushes hard for the first year and you may as well eat your boots,so hunting to me is seeing very clearly what I am shooting because I plan on eating it and any further than 150 to200 yards I can't make that call with 100 percent certainty.
I hunted heavy timber with large cut outs all my life so animals get hurt even healthy bulls get injured with horns in there necks with real bad infections and if your up close you can check this out,not very many,but enough that I want a birds eye view of my meat.

The 6.5 has always been a good caliber and no doubt the Prc is a fine cartridge for shooting long range,but I find 500 yards to be far out because of small willows or 4 foot poplars with no leafs on them that are almost impossible to see at 500 let alone 1000 so this is another reason I like to get close up an eliminate as many errors as possible and that's not factoring in the wind,temp and other things that make a bullet go off track.

If all animals could be shot every time with all the right factors like all the things I mention above then I would give it a go,but that's impossible to know 100 percent so I don't squeeze that trigger .

Now plinking at steal plates then adjusting for a second shot doesn't give you the right to use any animal for target practice.I know for sure there are way better shooters than me,but I know for sure my limitations of what being a hunter is.5 percent is the rifle 95 percent is the hunter and the guy on that trigger.

So choose your tool and get it done right. So to all young hunters be very careful what you do with a rifle of any caliber because once that projectile exits you own it.It is what it is.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by REMINGTON JIM

I Have rifles in BOTH the 6.5 PRC is MAX at 60 gr depending on what powder behind a 143 ELDX and the 6.5 -284 is up to 55 grains with LESS then 100 fps so far with the same lenght barrel BUT i have just started with the PRC will know more in a month or so ! SO HOLD onto your NORMA ! RJ

Have you tried RL 26 in these two cartridges with the 143 ELDX. A new Hornady 6.5 PRC case holds 67.0 grains RL 26 full and should hold 60.5 grains under the bullet seated 0.050" off the lands according to my drawing. A new Nosler brass in 6.5X284 Norma holds 64.7 grains RL 26 full and should hold 58.4 grains. according to my drawing. Hornady's data show RL 26 at 57.0 max getting 3150 in a 26" barrel. Will be interesting to see how these two compare withonly about 2.5 grains of powder difference with bullet seated.

[IMG][/IMG]

[REMINGTON JIM]

Im working with 57 and 58 grs of RL26 right now in the PRC with a Horn 143 ELDX and a loaded lenght of 3.000 ! RJ

From the LRH Site !
The question still remains, how does the 6.5 PRC stack up against the other 6.5 caliber cartridges. Powder capacity of the PRC is 68.9 gr. of water, Creedmoor 52.4, 264 mag. 80.7 and the 6.5 SAUM 73.2. Depending on the weight of the bullet, the PRC will be around 200fps. faster than the Creedmoor. Shooting the same 143gr. ELD X bullet, ballistic charts say at 1000 yards the PRC is 6.42 MOA flatter shooting, 228fps faster and has 225lbs. more of energy. This study was done with factory ammunition on the Hornady calculator. The SAUM is just a little bit faster than the PRC.

[303carbine]

The 6.5x300 Weatherby mag I had back in the 80's was flatter shooting and carries a lot more of everything than any of the newest craze of 6.5 rifles.
Before my dad sold me the big Weatherby, he shot a moose at measured 770 yards, he placed two shots five inches apart.
The first shot was a kill shot, the second was an insurance shot.
It was boring to shoot paper with, but putting high speed holes in big game was what it was made for.
If I was to get another 6.5 rifle, it would probably be a 264 Winchester, the new 6.5 Peashooter or the 6.5 Needmore are getting to be old hat real fast.

[Stinky Coyote]

Why instagram is better than forums.😉

Muley freak just posted a drt Muley kill at 1245 yrds with 6.5 prc with 147 eldm, surprised he recovered bullet, that kind is sd at over 1600 fps is pretty potent. Does about 1000 rounds a year to 1500 yrds.

6.5 prc...a fine 400 yrd elk cartidge.😂😂😂

[marky_mark]

Ya man just watch best of the west clips
It’s the same as 6.5x284
Same cal
Same weight bullet
Same speed
Same result
When your watching make sure to look at the turrets. Some say 300,7mm,28 nosler etc
Moral of the story, don’t believe everything you read or see online or on tv

[sns2]

Originally Posted by JD848

If I was to have read some of these posts 45 years ago I would have thought someone got into bad lot of LSD.You could drive yourself nuts trying to figure out if the moose or deer is breathing in or not and what damage the sd will create on it's lungs and penetration.

They all died 40 years ago without all this stuff,but back then there where hunters who hunted to get close to there prey and 300 yards was a long shot and there's still plenty of good hunters still around 45 years later.

I like to see the color of the fur of my moose when I shoot it,young or older bulls with grey hairs I pass up due to health problems,if he is nice and black and shiny like a fine healthy horse down he goes.To many herbicides or pesticides that destroys livers and high wolf populated areas spreading parasites into there drinking holes that get into there systems making them sick and I find them unfit to eat.

So why all this long range stuff,if a young bull busts a knee when he is a calf he pushes hard for the first year and you may as well eat your boots,so hunting to me is seeing very clearly what I am shooting because I plan on eating it and any further than 150 to200 yards I can't make that call with 100 percent certainty.
I hunted heavy timber with large cut outs all my life so animals get hurt even healthy bulls get injured with horns in there necks with real bad infections and if your up close you can check this out,not very many,but enough that I want a birds eye view of my meat.

The 6.5 has always been a good caliber and no doubt the Prc is a fine cartridge for shooting long range,but I find 500 yards to be far out because of small willows or 4 foot poplars with no leafs on them that are almost impossible to see at 500 let alone 1000 so this is another reason I like to get close up an eliminate as many errors as possible and that's not factoring in the wind,temp and other things that make a bullet go off track.

If all animals could be shot every time with all the right factors like all the things I mention above then I would give it a go,but that's impossible to know 100 percent so I don't squeeze that trigger .

Now plinking at steal plates then adjusting for a second shot doesn't give you the right to use any animal for target practice.I know for sure there are way better shooters than me,but I know for sure my limitations of what being a hunter is.5 percent is the rifle 95 percent is the hunter and the guy on that trigger.

So choose your tool and get it done right. So to all young hunters be very careful what you do with a rifle of any caliber because once that projectile exits you own it.It is what it is.

Why are you trying to make so much common sense????