Baiting In Alberta

[mmiddlemiss]

I am fairly new to reading all these threads, so I am sure that this topic has been discussed before.

I am wondering what everyone's thoughts/comments are if Alberta legalized baiting deer?

I am not saying that I want this to happen or that I would agree with it, just wanted to know where everyone else stands on this topic.

Unfortunately, it seems to be an all too common pratice in Alberta already but as for legalizing, with all the CWD issues we have, I can't see it being a good idea.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Unfortunately, it seems to be an all too common pratice in Alberta already but as for legalizing, with all the CWD issues we have, I can't see it being a good idea.

Not to open a can of worms here, but baiting has not been proven to contribute to the issues of CWD. Look at the numbers from Sask vs. Alberta in documented cases of CWD, there certainly is not an "trend" that would indicate what most have assumed.

[roger]

im no biologist and never played one on TV but, i think that introducing a bait station, either to be hunted over or as a novelty (for trailcams or simply veiwing) cannot be good for the animal.
It creates a dependency on the human input so if things change, the third or fourth or 10th generation will be at a loss on how to forage naturally.

i also agree with sheephunter, it is going on now...

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by roger

im no biologist and never played one on TV but, i think that introducing a bait station, either to be hunted over or as a novelty (for trailcams or simply veiwing) cannot be good for the animal.
It creates a dependency on the human input so if things change, the third or fourth or 10th generation will be at a loss on how to forage naturally.

i also agree with sheephunter, it is going on now...

I doubt they'd lose their natural ability to forage but I have no doubt that habituating animals to come to bait... makes em a lot easier to harvest come hunting season and I know that bringing animals into more frequent contact with contagion increases the attack rate of disease.

Claiming that CWD wouldn't be advanced by the use of bait stations is like denying the epidemiology or hoof and mouth or anthrax and just plain silly.

We know that it is transmitted from animal to animal and/or through contaminated ground/feed etc.
Isn't that what bait stations would result in?
Close contact between individuals and heavily contaminated soil and feed?

If you bring a susceptible individual into contact with a carrier... there is a chance that disease will spread.
If you bring that individual into frequent close contact with a carrier the odds increase exponentially.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Not to open a can of worms here, but baiting has not been proven to contribute to the issues of CWD. Look at the numbers from Sask vs. Alberta in documented cases of CWD, there certainly is not an "trend" that would indicate what most have assumed.

I agree with you sled head
If the spread of cwd is possibly caused by baiting then why were the srd using baiting techniques to cull deer in the hot zone in alberta?
I would bet 99% of the posters here if had the opp to bait for deer would
JMHO

If it was that big of concern , then Farmers should have to fence bale stacks and grain piles.......

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by NIKON

I agree with you sled head
If the spread of cwd is possibly caused by baiting then why were the srd using baiting techniques to cull deer in the hot zone in alberta?
I would bet 99% of the posters here if had the opp to bait for deer would
JMHO

If it was that big of concern , then Farmers should have to fence bale stacks and grain piles.......

I guess I have more faith in my fellow hunters than you.

ANYTHING that unnaturally increases deer density and deer/deer contact is bad for deer. CWD is not the only concern, but is the most serious.

There is also a concern about some of the "growth supplements" available; some are made from bone meal and / or ground antler - obtained from farmed deer... *If you don't see the issue with this, you need to educate yourself.

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Not to open a can of worms here, but baiting has not been proven to contribute to the issues of CWD. Look at the numbers from Sask vs. Alberta in documented cases of CWD, there certainly is not an "trend" that would indicate what most have assumed.

It has been proven that crowding deer in one area and having them eat where they urinate and deficate can speed up the spread of CWD....it's not a big leap to apply it to baiting.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

It has been proven that crowding deer in one area and having them eat where they urinate and deficate can speed up the spread of CWD....it's not a big leap to apply it to baiting.

Hey sheep
Then why were srd baiting in the hot zone?

Originally Posted by NIKON

Hey sheep
Then why were srd baiting in the hot zone?

I supect so they could cull a whole lot of deer in a very short period of time.

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Hey sheep
Then why were srd baiting in the hot zone?

Their objective was to kill max deer. The baiting was a short term tool to achieve that objective. Makes sense to me.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

It has been proven that crowding deer in one area and having them eat where they urinate and deficate can speed up the spread of CWD....it's not a big leap to apply it to baiting.

Actually if you look at all the data that is already out there, it is a very big leap and a gross assumption made be many..

As we all can attest, wintering habits find these deer crowding around hay stacks, leaking grain bins, ext. In all reality these are artificial man made buffets in a natural setting.. Even trying to eliminate these, deer feed in general areas depending on time of year and contact with the prion that causes CWD is inevitable..

If artificial "baiting" was a large contributor to the spread of disease, well the numbers from one side of the wheat boarder to the other would obviously be greater proving this theory.. It's not, almost identical patterns in Alberta vs. Sask along the boarder providing us all with data the proves our personal assumptions are not valid.

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Actually if you look at all the data that is already out there, it is a very big leap and a gross assumption made be many..

As we all can attest, wintering habits find these deer crowding around hay stacks, leaking grain bins, ext. In all reality these are artificial man made buffets in a natural setting.. Even trying to eliminate these, deer feed in general areas depending on time of year and contact with the prion that causes CWD is inevitable..

If artificial "baiting" was a large contributor to the spread of disease, well the numbers from one side of the wheat boarder to the other would obviously be greater proving this theory.. It's not, almost identical patterns in Alberta vs. Sask along the boarder providing us all with data the proves our personal assumptions are not valid.

There are lots of questions surrounding CWD and it could be debated forever but the fact remains that crowding is proven to spread the disease...that's all I need to know.

As for CWD existing across the wheat belt...give it time. It's not another big assumption to guess where it started and why it's so prevelant along the Sask/AB border. It is slowly spreading like a cancer. Why create conditions that could increase the rate of the spread? What's the benefit to allowing baiting?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Unfortunately, it seems to be an all too common pratice in Alberta already but as for legalizing, with all the CWD issues we have, I can't see it being a good idea.

I don't believe for a second, that cwd has anything to do with why hunting over bait is illegal. If esrd, was that concerned about it, they wouldn't allow baiting for pictures.

We need clarification, and some re wording in our regulations. We need to prohibit baiting for ungulates, period. We need to prohibit the sale of baits and attractants in stores.

Depending on what's used, and where. Some grains could be an agricultural disaster, with invasive species being introduced and unregulated.

[roger]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Depending on what's used, and where. Some grains could be an agricultural disaster, with invasive species being introduced and unregulated.

extremely valid point...

[catnthehat]

Dependng on what is offered at the bait station, certain chemicals and nutrients can artifically alter the antler size of a buck, which is contrary to what many consider a "naturally grown " deer.
Cat

[Pincherguy]

need to prohibit the sale of baits and attractants in stores.

This has had me thinking for a while now. Why do they allow the sale of these attractants? If something is illeagal to use why should it be legal to sell?
PG

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

need to prohibit the sale of baits and attractants in stores.

This has had me thinking for a while now. Why do they allow the sale of these attractants? If something is illeagal to use why should it be legal to sell?
PG

Baits and attractants are only illegal to hunt over, like potty says the use for viewing is not...

Funny that Alberta sells more artificial attractants than Sask does

[pikeslayer22]

Does anyone honestly belive they would feel good about there selves after shooting a animal that had been baited for months prior and felt no danger when coming in for lunch? More like shooting a domestic animal...Would get alot of guys out of their trucks though i bet and probably alot more ethical kills. IMO

[C Taylor]

If baiting is so bad for deer why is it that as soon as a person crosses the border into sask you'll see way more deer? I think it would help deer through the tough winters.
If it was legal it would be a huge advantage to the hunters baiting and a huge disadvantage to any not baiting. So I would call it fairer for everyone to not bait but don't believe the cwd bs

[Pincherguy]

[/B][/B]need to prohibit the sale of baits and attractants in stores.

This has had me thinking for a while now. Why do they allow the sale of these attractants? If something is illeagal to use why should it be legal to sell?
PG

[cheemo]

Hunting over bait in Alberta seems to be reserved only for a select few that shoot out of a chopper. Meanwhile hunting over bait for the rest of us would get more guys off the roads and more deer in peoples freezers instead of a big hole in the ground.

[bowtech3006]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

I don't believe for a second, that cwd has anything to do with why hunting over bait is illegal. If esrd, was that concerned about it, they wouldn't allow baiting for pictures.

We need clarification, and some re wording in our regulations. We need to prohibit baiting for ungulates, period. We need to prohibit the sale of baits and attractants in stores.

Depending on what's used, and where. Some grains could be an agricultural disaster, with invasive species being introduced and unregulated.

Bang on Potty. I wish you ran srd.

[Kurt505]

Baiting = allowing bad hunters the opertunity to harvest trophy animals too.


JMO.

I don't know about the validity of the CWD theory or the creation of dependency on humans for food, but it sure would cut down on my scouting/hunting/stand location set up time if I could dump a pile of food infront of my box blind year after year and shoot the big one. That I know is a fact.

[petew]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

I don't believe for a second, that cwd has anything to do with why hunting over bait is illegal. If esrd, was that concerned about it, they wouldn't allow baiting for pictures.

We need clarification, and some re wording in our regulations. We need to prohibit baiting for ungulates, period. We need to prohibit the sale of baits and attractants in stores.Depending on what's used, and where. Some grains could be an agricultural disaster, with invasive species being introduced and unregulated.

Well said. The so called " baiting for pictures" is just a play with words. look at the amount of baits sold in stores during hunting season.

[K3llyk@rjvnet.ca]

Well in the winter of 2010 I know I was defineatly a facter in the reason why a lot of deer made it through the winter. I put out close to 1500 bushels of grain because the deer were in severe trouble. Because of my contributions there were many good quality bucks made it through the tough winter. Especially the mature bucks that were wore down from the rut. That's all a bunch of B. S about the cwd. A very very small amount of deer if any actually die of cwd. Im speaking of the percentage of deer. That extended season over along the eastern border was ridiculous. There was no need for it. I do not and never will be in favour of baiting deer to hunt over a grain pile. That's just an easy way to sit on your butt and call yourself a hunter

[duncan4]

you can't expect stores to take baits and attracts off the market.. thats just stupid and would not help at all because any smart hunter isn't baiting with the stuff sold at stores.... come on now. if someones gunna bait they go out to Viterra or UFA and buy a bag of something or more then one. Find some peas, oats, grain. whatever it is. they will find it no matter how many stores take baits off the market guys will still buy and use them.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by mmiddlemiss

I am fairly new to reading all these threads, so I am sure that this topic has been discussed before.

I am wondering what everyone's thoughts/comments are if Alberta legalized baiting deer?

I am not saying that I want this to happen or that I would agree with it, just wanted to know where everyone else stands on this topic.

For starters, the ETHICS of hunting ungulates over bait is not a concern to me.

I feel that baiting ungulates should be illegal for recreational hunting and Non-hunting purposes.

Why?

Most importantly, Baiting DOES increase the risk of disease transmission between animals. Those claiming that there is no proof are blowing smoke. There are now many research projects that have concluded that baiting ungulates significantly increases transmission rates of diseases like CWD, Bluetongue and Tuberulosis.

The disease issue is not just about wildlife. The potential for massive financial damages to the Agricultural sector due to potential cross infection from wildlife to livestock is worrysome.

Allowing baiting of ungulates simply because some "want to" is not justifiable versus the potential ramification due to disease issues.



It is interesting that once again Canadians are playing catch up with American (usa) social trends. We are so far behind that most are not paying attention the present trend regarding ungulate baiting in the US.

Most jurisdictions in the USA are now trying to reverse present laws and make baiting of ungulates Illegal! They have been through all the problems associated with this practice, and are paying for the negative impacts that come along with baiting.



I hope there is a chance that Albertan hunters will be wise enough to learn from others mistakes and Never allow baiting for hunting ungulates, and to make baiting ungulates for other recreational purposes illegal as well.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

For starters, the ETHICS of hunting ungulates over bait is not a concern to me.

I feel that baiting ungulates should be illegal for recreational hunting and Non-hunting purposes.

Why?

Most importantly, Baiting DOES increase the risk of disease transmission between animals. Those claiming that there is no proof are blowing smoke. There are now many research projects that have concluded that baiting ungulates significantly increases transmission rates of diseases like CWD, Bluetongue and Tuberulosis.

The disease issue is not just about wildlife. The potential for massive financial damages to the Agricultural sector due to potential cross infection from wildlife to livestock is worrysome.

Allowing baiting of ungulates simply because some "want to" is not justifiable versus the potential ramification due to disease issues.



It is interesting that once again Canadians are playing catch up with American (usa) social trends. We are so far behind that most are not paying attention the present trend regarding ungulate baiting in the US.

Most jurisdictions in the USA are now trying to reverse present laws and make baiting of ungulates Illegal! They have been through all the problems associated with this practice, and are paying for the negative impacts that come along with baiting.



I hope there is a chance that Albertan hunters will be wise enough to learn from others mistakes and Never allow baiting for hunting ungulates, and to make baiting ungulates for other recreational purposes illegal as well.

WB, I do respect your position, but have to disagree How can there be as you say "Proof" that baiting spreads these diseases we are all concerbed about ? What they did a lab experiment I have not read about ? Like really, silly as it sounds, ungulates will always come in contact with each other no matter what, period. We can't prevent the natural instincts of these ungulates, it is what it is really.

In a nut shell, ungulates will continue to gather at ranchers salt licks, hay stacks, winter cattle feeding areas, and farmers grain piles and leaky bins no matter what. We can not prevent this, contact will happen and disease will spread... In nature the ungulates are very social as well, contact is made and areas shared at all time of the year..

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

In a nut shell, ungulates will continue to gather at ranchers salt licks, hay stacks, winter cattle feeding areas, and farmers grain piles and leaky bins no matter what. We can not prevent this, contact will happen and disease will spread... In nature the ungulates are very social as well, contact is made and areas shared at all time of the year..

So we should further exacerbate those problems you pointed out by compounding them with additional concetrated feeding locations?

Two wrongs don't make a right.