Re-examining dog food

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

I just read an article or study that suggests peas can actually cause heart desease in some breed of dogs. I feed my dog Kirkland’s organic chicken and pea. Having second thoughts now. Does anyone know more about this? I thought I was feeding my GWP the best food

[Dweb]

Been feeding our shihtzu ol Roy from Walmart for 15 years and she can still chase the tennis ball.

I wouldn't worry about it.

[88thunderbird]

Funny , We had a shihtzu for 16yrs and always ate olroy and table scraps . as he got older the vet wanted him to eat their brand but he hated it and back to olroy.
Our dog now eats Nutro , I see reviews online , good and bad , i believe it has peas too.

[Yycadm]

I make our dog food. Equal portions brown rice & ground or chopped meat, yams, half cup ground oats, bone meal (1tbsp/lb) and canine multivitamins (contents of three capsules per pound).
Yams & meat boiled together, fat skimmed and kept, drained. Rice & oats cooked together
Mash yams and meat, add rice, oats 1tbsp strained fat per pound bone meal & vitamins, mix well, freeze until needed
Cost is about the same as quality dogfood. I had it tested for caloric and nutritional value; about 30% higher calories per cup, so volume can be cut without loss. According to the Vet, VERY healthy & well balanced nutrition. Added bonus, cuts stool production by at least 50%, dramatic decrease in smell.
Our last 4 dogs have all lived more than 16 years, current dog is 3 & healthy as a horse. Takes maybe an hour a month to make,but I know exactly what they’re eating, soit’s worth it

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Google worst foods for dogs.
I don’t see peas listed on any list on the more reputable sites.

My girl loves vegetables that are safe for her to eat.


https://www.chewy.com/petcentral/vegetables-for-dogs

This site says peas are ok.

[artie]

My lab/chessie is so sensitive to different types of dog food. It does not take much and I am up all night with him and the squirts. The one he does well on is acanna grass fed lamb and okanagan apples.
The one he did terrible on was I tried to put him on the raw patties with turkey. They grind up the bones and include them but he always seemed like he had something stuck in his throat. Lots of vomiting and the squirts. I had just started him slowly on the raw but it was not for him.
That been said back in the sixties we had a lab who was raised on butcher scraps and perky dog food and he did well on that.

[KegRiver]

Dog food is big business these days. With big business comes big competition and big lies to gain advantage over competitors.

One has to wonder who paid for the research and why they did it.

Ten years ago we did extensive research into dog foods because we wanted the best for our dog. We were prepared to provide the best even if that meant rounding up raw materials and mixing our own.

We found that many were little more then corn meal or rice cakes. We also found that the claims made, in no way reflected what was in the bag. Some that were mostly corn products made claims suggesting that they were the most balanced diet for pets.

We settled on Acana. They used the least corn and rice and the most diversified list of natural ingredients at the time.

[58thecat]

Chopped up cooked chicken, salmon, tuna, carrots, apples placed on top of a scoop of good ol'filler dog food....the ingredients says it's good stuff but I prefer to feed her choice cuts.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Dweb

Been feeding our shihtzu ol Roy from Walmart for 15 years and she can still chase the tennis ball.

I wouldn't worry about it.

X2. Lot of hype in the pet food business.

Grizz

[tirebob]

We have one dog with insane food allergies and we have found the only thing that causes him zero issues is a limited ingredient Zignature Kangaroo kibble. We tried every expensive specialty dog food we could lay our hands on over about 1.5 years with zero luck. Even made his food from frozen whole herrings, and veggies etc with no luck. Tries chicken, beef, fish, bison, lamb, goat, etc and everything was triggering his allergies bad. Then a friend suggest kangaroo as a novel protein and low and behold all his issues went away in just a couple weeks! The Zignature Kangaroo is excellent quality and is surprisingly well priced for a specialty food at $90 for a 27lbs bag. I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try.

[barbless]

I have heard from friends and others that a lot of breeds ( mostly purebred) for some reason cannot handle chicken in the dog food or treats they eat. Real meat sometimes different story. Mostly bagged dog food. $$$$$ don't guarantee good for them. I use to make some but not all his food for my Lab Shepherd cross, all boiled, no spice, no sauce (ok maybe some fat drippings for extra flavor). But camping, it was dog food and a steak bone boiled to rid the spice and sauce. Never a problem. Just saying they are all different, as so are we and our kids. Never good to find out you gave them something and they get the Hershey squirts,

[Outdoorsmen88]

After reading this post I had to sign up and share my experience with this topic. I knew nothing about this until about 5 months ago when my 3-year-old Great Dane cross Pressa Canario went into chronic heart failure caused by dilated cardiomyopathy (enlarged heart). Long story short, after many vet appointments and a diagnosis of 3-6 months for her to live it was suggested that we check her taurine levels because apparently, more and more dogs are suffering from heart disease with a link to "boutique" grain free kibble. We followed this advice by having a blood test done to check her taurine levels, they came back critical low not sure of the exact number. Not ready to lose my dog this early I began researching the issue, and it turns out there is an increase of dogs dying of heart failure that aren't predisposed to heart problems. The link is grain free "boutique" brands and at the top of the list is Acana. Like many others, we wanted to feed our dog what we thought was the best so she was on Acana singles Duck and Pear. At this point, research is suggesting there is something in these grain-free diets that is lowering the levels of taurine in dogs suspect ingredients include legumes lentils and potatoes. The FDA is investigating the exact cause. Since the diagnosis of dilated cardiomyopathy in our dog, we have switched her to a raw diet and supplement taurine twice daily along with this and many other medications she is stable and seems to be improving. It is thought that supplementation of taurine can in some cases reverse or improve the effects of DCM. I'm not posting here to debate which type or brands of food are better than the other just simply to share what happened with us and possibly prevent this situation for someone else. There is a facebook page called Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy that has a table listing dog food brands and cases of DCM which might be helpful.

[KegRiver]

So do I understand this correctly.

Low taurine levels are causing heart disease in dogs and cats.

The best dietary source of taurine is meat.

Pet foods high in meat are causing low taurine levels and subsequently heart disease in dogs.

What am I missing here?

[Weedy1]

Here's the FDA articles investigating the potential connection between diet and cases of canine heart disease.

https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary.../ucm616279.htm

https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsr.../ucm613355.htm

https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary.../ucm613305.htm

[Outdoorsmen88]

It is possible that one of the suspect ingredients can inhibit a dogs ability to absorb or make taurine. Unfortunately there is no definitive answer at this time. This issue is only with dogs not cats there was a similar problem in regards to cats in the 80s that was resolved.

[KegRiver]

The link is grain free "boutique" brands and at the top of the list is Acana.

Where do I find this list?

I have googled every search term I can think of and so far I have been unable to find any brand in any way linked to Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy or any heart disease in dogs, or cats.

In fact all I did find is that a possible link to legumes being somehow connected is being investigated.

I did find that a link was found between low Taurine levels in pet food and heart disease in cats. It seems that was addressed by adding animal protein to cat food.
Even there I found no list of brands connected to this issue.

It seems to me that at this point in the research it would be highly unusual to name any brands as being connected.

I want to know who made that claim and why.

BTW A list on facebook means nothing.
We see so many false claims on that platform that no claims made there can be trusted. Anyone can make such a claim there, for it to have any weight it must come from a reliable source. And I'm not finding that.

In fact at this juncture I think such a claim would be irresponsible at best.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsmen88

After reading this post I had to sign up and share my experience with this topic. I knew nothing about this until about 5 months ago when my 3-year-old Great Dane cross Pressa Canario went into chronic heart failure caused by dilated cardiomyopathy (enlarged heart). Long story short, after many vet appointments and a diagnosis of 3-6 months for her to live it was suggested that we check her taurine levels because apparently, more and more dogs are suffering from heart disease with a link to "boutique" grain free kibble. We followed this advice by having a blood test done to check her taurine levels, they came back critical low not sure of the exact number. Not ready to lose my dog this early I began researching the issue, and it turns out there is an increase of dogs dying of heart failure that aren't predisposed to heart problems. The link is grain free "boutique" brands and at the top of the list is Acana. Like many others, we wanted to feed our dog what we thought was the best so she was on Acana singles Duck and Pear. At this point, research is suggesting there is something in these grain-free diets that is lowering the levels of taurine in dogs suspect ingredients include legumes lentils and potatoes. The FDA is investigating the exact cause. Since the diagnosis of dilated cardiomyopathy in our dog, we have switched her to a raw diet and supplement taurine twice daily along with this and many other medications she is stable and seems to be improving. It is thought that supplementation of taurine can in some cases reverse or improve the effects of DCM. I'm not posting here to debate which type or brands of food are better than the other just simply to share what happened with us and possibly prevent this situation for someone else. There is a facebook page called Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy that has a table listing dog food brands and cases of DCM which might be helpful.

Hope your pup heals up and you enjoy a lifetime of fun together.

I always said feed them off the land, mostly meat, fish, etc after all you don't see wolf packs grazing on our farm fields and they seem to be healthy

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Where do I find this list?

From the FDA reports I listed a few posts above:

6. What brands of food have been included in the reports to the FDA?

There is a range of different brands and formulas included in the reports. Rather than brands, the common thread appears to be legumes, pulses (seeds of legumes), and/or potatoes as main ingredients in the food. This also includes protein, starch and fiber derivatives of these ingredients, (e.g., pea protein, pea starch, or pea fiber). Some reports we have received also seem to indicate that the pets were not eating any other foods for several months to years prior to exhibiting signs of DCM.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

From the FDA reports I listed a few posts above:

6. What brands of food have been included in the reports to the FDA?

There is a range of different brands and formulas included in the reports. Rather than brands, the common thread appears to be legumes, pulses (seeds of legumes), and/or potatoes as main ingredients in the food. This also includes protein, starch and fiber derivatives of these ingredients, (e.g., pea protein, pea starch, or pea fiber). Some reports we have received also seem to indicate that the pets were not eating any other foods for several months to years prior to exhibiting signs of DCM.

I found and read that before you posted it. As I said, I did not find any lists of brands connected to this issue.

But one post clearly named one brand, which just happens to be the strongest competitor to the cereal based brands.

I find it highly suspect that such claims would be made at this point in the research. Unless those claims were meant to gain market advantage.

Cereal based pet foods have been loosing market share to meat based products. What better way to counter that then anonymous claims that meat based products are killing pets?

I know enough about bulk grain handling to know that cereal based products almost certainly contain some legume material.

It seems strange that cereal based pet foods would not be using greater volumes of legumes then meat based pet foods. After all, legumes are a much cheaper source of protean then meat. What better way to counter the claims the meat based products make about a more balanced diet?

[TomP]

So we just put a deposit in on a Bernese mountain dog puppy. It’s our first dog and I have been researching dog food. My results are this....ALL dog food will kill my dog...grain free causes heart disease apparently..don’t know whether I believe that or it’s a scam to put premium dog food companies out of business. Everyone has a different opinion...vets are pushing unhealthy food apparently. Or vets are right. . What do I feed my dog?!?

[CalgaryDan]

We’ve had 2 Great Danes from the same breeder. She requires in the contract that the dogs are fed raw and got us hooked up with her raw supplier. She is getting 9-10 years for the males and 11-12 years for females, both well above normal life expectancies for Danes. Our guys have had perfect joints, no hip/heart issues. I’ve heard a lot of the negative comments about raw diets for dogs but in my 10 years of using it haven’t had one myself.

[spazzy]

30 % acana and 70 % purina pro plan works good for our gsp mix

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by CalgaryDan

We’ve had 2 Great Danes from the same breeder. She requires in the contract that the dogs are fed raw and got us hooked up with her raw supplier. She is getting 9-10 years for the males and 11-12 years for females, both well above normal life expectancies for Danes. Our guys have had perfect joints, no hip/heart issues. I’ve heard a lot of the negative comments about raw diets for dogs but in my 10 years of using it haven’t had one myself.

Yeah, I got roasted a bit on a previous thread when I brought up a raw fed diet.
Most vets aren't crazy about it either. I'm sure they see a lot of people who don't understand what raw fed whole prey means.

It's like a vegetarian who drops meat and doesn't do the research on how to replace the nutrients they are walking away from. Their diet will be deficient.

It's the same with raw fed. If you just feed raw chicken breast and red muscle meat, your dogs diet will be deficient. Whole prey means muscle, organ, bone, tendon and connective tissue and entrails (done properly).

I've been lucky. My breeder swears by raw fed and has many different sources. From the Baldwin product, at huge discounts from retail, to chicken necks from the local Hutterites, to a local butcher who does 1lb cubes of whole prey beef product. And don't forget your wild meat, it adds variety to their diet too.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by spazzy

30 % acana and 70 % purina pro plan works good for our gsp mix

This is what I do as well although I do mix is a bag of the Holistic Blend from time to time available at Walmart. I use more PP Sport 30/20 during the summer and fall. I use PP Focus and Savour in about equal amounts though out the year.

This is more about the attack on corn as a reliable protein source that has been used for generations. Many trainers state side still swear by corn as an excellent food. The designer brands used the attack on corn as a marketing tool and now it would seem that the replacement proteins may not be all they were advertised to be.

Here is an interesting article on corn and corn gluten that we all love to hate in dog food, http://www.vetfolio.com/nutrition/nu...utrition-myths

[barbless]

Well years ago from talking with a bunch of different people who had dogs on the farm got table scraps and they lived full lives and healthy. They didn't want to spend the money on store bought food.

[1899b]

.

[artie]

The way I look at it that you never see the relatives of dogs like the wolves and coyotes eating corn or grain. They are strict meat eaters although you do see some coyote poop with berries in it.
The other thing is you hear about someone taking their old horse to Ft Mcleod to the canners but you never hear dog food companies talk about horse meat in their food. Someone told me horse meat is classed as other meat byproducts and is there in some foods but not talked about.
what to feed the dog?

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by artie

The way I look at it that you never see the relatives of dogs like the wolves and coyotes eating corn or grain. They are strict meat eaters although you do see some coyote poop with berries in it.
The other thing is you hear about someone taking their old horse to Ft Mcleod to the canners but you never hear dog food companies talk about horse meat in their food. Someone told me horse meat is classed as other meat byproducts and is there in some foods but not talked about.
what to feed the dog?

Wild cats get most of their water from the prey they eat. That doesn't mean they don't need water. Wild dogs, especially coyotes and foxes eat the entire rodent. This of course would include everything the animal (or bird) had consumed in different stages of digestion.

Along with the rodents, members of the dog family enjoy a feed of insects, especially grass hoppers which are also full of plant protein.

And yes dogs love berries. They also graze on grasses and dig up roots although I would suspect they are lacking in a mineral or something alike when they look for these foods.

Wolves of coarse consume all organs as well. I did find a kill with the gut still intact but maybe they had not got to it because they were full and moved on.

If you were to read the article I had linked above, you would learn that protein from plants is identical to animal protein. The problem that dogs would have on a corn or grain diet is the inability to extract the protein because their digestive system is not designed to do so. Designer dog food manufacturers took this information and ran with it. What they didn't tell people is that plant protein found in dog food has already been extracted and is easily consumed and utilized by a dog.

Anyway, I had mentioned before that I do not trust any of the companies and try to feed a variety including some scraps. This is taboo to every vet and dog food manufacturer that warn of a variety of issues if you change food abruptly or at all. I think this is another BS marketing scam to have you only buy their product and literally ruin your dogs ability to digest and utilize a variety of foods. Wild dogs eat what they can find because their stomach is strong and healthy. Our dogs should be the same way IMO.

[kinwahkly]

I mix Purina pro plan sport and Go Dog food.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by barbless

Well years ago from talking with a bunch of different people who had dogs on the farm got table scraps and they lived full lives and healthy. They didn't want to spend the money on store bought food.

On the homestead where I grew up our dogs eat just about anything edible and thrived on it. A couple lived past twenty years.

All cooking scraps went into the slop bucket to feed to the hogs but our dogs would take what they wanted before the hogs could get to it.

And our dogs did eat cereals some times. But they didn't digest it well.
They got first pick of the carcasses from dad's trapping, and they hunted mice in the fields very successfully even thought they didn't need to.

For years my brother fed road kill to their dogs, with no issues so far as I know.

Often commercial pet food was not available, or wasn't until recently.

I agree with those who say a natural diet includes much more then just raw meat. And that a raw meat diet is far better then anything that comes in a bag.
But for many of us, a raw meat diet is not available or not practical.