Interesting thoughts

[thumper]

I've now got new dental implants in my lower right jaw - right where I plant my rifle stock! I'll be shooting a 6.5 Creedmore from here on in.... The adjustable cheek-piece on the Sako S20, and the adjustable butt pad makes for a solid ergonomic grip that sure helps to reduce felt recoil impact as well as the 6.5 Creedmore chambering. And thanks to the implants, my days of blasting away 3" shells at ducks and geese with my 12 gauge are behind me too!

[catnthehat]

I shoot pretty danged small or light recoiling cartridges for the most part, the biggest being a 280, ( but I don't shoot it that much) unless you count the BP stuff, but even those are light recoiling compared to some cartridges.
I have no issues whatsoever hunting with whatever it is I would recommend too a new shooter.
The cartridge isn't the biggest factor in selecting a rifle for someone anyway!
Cat

[BigJon]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I can assure you that if your bringing a 30/06. Your guide is bringing a 416.
You may get the first shot, but they will be shooting right after you

Originally Posted by MountainTi

As mentioned, someone will be backing you up....luckily.
Guessing those recommending something bigger are FAR more experienced than you. If that's all the recoil you can handle though, it is what it is.
I'll side with the experience, not an opinion

Correct, I don’t have personal experience with killing the big bear species.

I can and have handled more recoil for many rounds, I just don’t see a point to it.

When it comes to taking the advice from those that do have experience, I tend to believe someone with a track record like Mr. Shoemaker, who has written numerous times about using a .30-06 with 200 or 220? partitions as a back-up rifle for clients on large brown bears. This despite having larger rifles at his disposal. Many (or most) of the videos I’ve watched of brown bear hunts have the guide shooting after the client shoots regardless of what cartridge the clients rifle is chambered in.

There’s also something to recoil recovery for follow-up shots. No matter how well a person “handles” recoil, the greater the shove, the longer it takes to accurately be back on target.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by BigJon

Correct, I don’t have personal experience with killing the big bear species.

I can and have handled more recoil for many rounds, I just don’t see a point to it.

When it comes to taking the advice from those that do have experience, I tend to believe someone with a track record like Mr. Shoemaker, who has written numerous times about using a .30-06 with 200 or 220? partitions as a back-up rifle for clients on large brown bears. This despite having larger rifles at his disposal. Many (or most) of the videos I’ve watched of brown bear hunts have the guide shooting after the client shoots regardless of what cartridge the clients rifle is chambered in.

There’s also something to recoil recovery for follow-up shots. No matter how well a person “handles” recoil, the greater the shove, the longer it takes to accurately be back on target.

So you're not really sure, but won't take an outfitters advice who had more experience than you will ever know. No real world experience. Gotcha. Hope you guide is a good shot

[BigJon]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

So you're not really sure, but won't take an outfitters advice who had more experience than you will ever know. No real world experience. Gotcha. Hope you guide is a good shot

I’ve brought up an outfitters advice in both my posts.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by BigJon

I’ve brought up an outfitters advice in both my posts.

I know if I was going on a coastal or kodiak beer hunt and me and my guide only had 30/06’s
I’d be rethinking who I booked my hunt with
Bigger is better and their is no such thing as overkill

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I know if I was going on a coastal or kodiak beer hunt and me and my guide only had 30/06’s
I’d be rethinking who I booked my hunt with
Bigger is better and their is no such thing as overkill

Overkill on all accounts....I kill beer with my bare hands

[obsessed1]

Ok so for certain there is need for larger caliber rifles for certain big game. But for the average guy going out and killing his buck every year that doesnt really play into the equation..I'd wager most hunters will never be on a hunt that "NEEDS" a round larger than 30-06,308.. or 243,6.5,270 for that matter. Even when elk or moose are on the docket.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[BigJon]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I know if I was going on a coastal or kodiak beer hunt and me and my guide only had 30/06’s
I’d be rethinking who I booked my hunt with
Bigger is better and their is no such thing as overkill

I hear you and don’t think it’s a bad idea. Just pointing out that there are very experienced outfitters that see nothing wrong with a .30-06 for the largest of bears.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Ok so for certain there is need for larger caliber rifles for certain big game. But for the average guy going out and killing his buck every year that doesnt really play into the equation..I'd wager most hunters will never be on a hunt that "NEEDS" a round larger than 30-06,308.. or 243,6.5,270 for that matter. Even when elk or moose are on the docket.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

100%
Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by BigJon

I hear you and don’t think it’s a bad idea. Just pointing out that there are very experienced outfitters that see nothing wrong with a .30-06 for the largest of bears.

Some people also think we should be able to shoot deer with a 223

When your 16, what do you get for a first vehicle?
Most usually don’t get a Ferrari or a corvette
They get something comfortable to refine their skills
Some people never drive anything more than a civic. It get your from point a to point b. That’s all that matters right?
But there is a lot of others that prefer what comes from something higher performance

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

100%

Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

I get your point marky but at the same time 95% of the hunters out there will likely never have a bull of thier dreams walking away at 400yds..but they will blow holes in deer at 130yds with thier 300wm simply because it's a man sized cartridge.
There is a percentage of hunters who like you have hunted some of the biggest baddest places and critters. Going under gunned is silly when you have $$$$ invested in the hunt. But this this is not reality for probably 99% of hunters out there

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[BigJon]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Some people also think we should be able to shoot deer with a 223

I’ll have to dissent again here LOL.

Based on experience, I have no problem with .22 centrefires for big game.

Bullet construction is simply light years ahead of when these minimums were put into practice.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Some people also think we should be able to shoot deer with a 223

Lots of States and Provinces allow the .223 to be used and there are many successful hunters every year using it.
Personally speaking, if something is out of range or not in a good opinion I let it walk, regardless of what I am shooting, I don't care if it's a World record.
Cat

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by BigJon

I’ll have to dissent again here LOL.

Based on experience, I have no problem with .22 centrefires for big game.

Bullet construction is simply light years ahead of when these minimums were put into practice.

I can’t think of a single advantage of hunting big game with a 22 center fire
If lower recoil is the biggest thing, then shoot with a brake on a 243 🤷*♂️
Bullet construction really hasn’t changed that much
Partitions have been around forever
The same with cup and core bullets
The big changes have been with vld type bullets which would not be your best choice for hunting with a 22 center fire anyways

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

100%
Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

Now you are making a valid point I agree with. People need to be realistic with the limitations of their set up. If they will regret passing on an opportunity like you mentioned they need to be prepared with an appropriate set up and be capable of using it

But remember not everyone has the same goals or ability. There is plenty of hunters who could live with that animal of a lifetime walking away do to the limitations of the weapon they choose to use. Some lack the ability too

I can think of multiple opportunities where I personally I could have easily taken an amazing trophy but I chose to hunt with a muzzleloader or bow instead of a rifle. I have refused rifles in the moment even. I don’t regret my choice but I know some would never understand it

No argument from me there can be advantages to different calibers

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

100%
Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

Or you could bring some super mag and flinch like a *&^%^&*$ and wound that trophy of a lifetime then live with that on your conscience for the rest of your life. It is all in your perspective. I have let more then a few fine animals walk and they are some of my best memories.

If you can handle a Ferrari then so be it, but to be honest most people can barely handle their Kia's.

[Dean2]

This is exactly what is wrong with these kinds of threads, they invariably devolve into dick measuring contests. It is why I so rarely post on them any more. If guys stuck to; "this is what I use and this is what I learned from it", that would be valuable info. Once they start trying to extrapolate their experience to tell others what they should do, or that the other person's experience isn't valuable or even right, then it turns into a cluster of useless arguments that produce no resolution or benefit.

[graham1]

Originally Posted by dean2

this is exactly what is wrong with these kinds of threads, they invariably devolve into dick measuring contests. It is why i so rarely post on them any more. If guys stuck to; "this is what i use and this is what i learned from it", that would be valuable info. Once they start trying to extrapolate their experience to tell others what they should do, or that the other person's experience isn't valuable or even right, then it turns into a cluster of useless arguments that produce no resolution or benefit.

amen

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Dean2

This is exactly what is wrong with these kinds of threads, they invariably devolve into dick measuring contests. It is why I so rarely post on them any more. If guys stuck to; "this is what I use and this is what I learned from it", that would be valuable info. Once they start trying to extrapolate their experience to tell others what they should do, or that the other person's experience isn't valuable or even right, then it turns into a cluster of useless arguments that produce no resolution or benefit.

Yup.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Dead seems to be dead if the hole is in the right spot. A bigger hole doesn’t seem to make them any deader

True to a point, but I think you will find that a bigger hole is much more forgiving for the vast majority of hunters who are either incapable of , or not in a position to place near MOA shots on every game animal they shoot at normal hunting distances.For those that can, the same appies.
A proper assesment would be shooting at least two dozen various sized game animals with any cartridge that produces smaller holes and another two dozen with one that is sub 3000 fps MV and leaves a much larger hole. The more data points, the better. Only then will the results prove greatly in favor of the larger dia. "hole". Dead is dead, but DRT is much better in all repects IMHO.

[Jerry D]

I would personally be very disappointed if I was on a guided hunt and the guide followed up with a second shot right afterwards because my gun was too small in their opinion.

Bow hunters must be a different breed! They must put us all to shame!

A .223 Remington is more than adequate to take down any whitetail. Straight on through the chest or broadside, through the ribs.

With any rifle. You need to know your limitations with range and shot angle. By choosing a bullet the that holds its weight. You will punch above your weight class in penetration compared to cup and core bullets or ones that fragment. The animal may run and you may need to track it 100yrds but that can happen regardless of what you shoot.

A .223 literally has no recoil and a shooter should be able to handle some recoil so I personally would start with a .243 because that’s about as light recoiling commonly available cartridge there is with good bullet selections. From there they can take a little step up into larger .308 based rounds or a larger step up into some long action rounds or magnums.

[densa44]

Just a word about the .410, I use it exclusively for upland birds. I rarely miss, not because I'm an expert like Elk or Cat but because I have a very good dog. The .410 was a gift, and it suits me just fine. Elk has a very nice 28 ga. semi and if I had to do it over that's what I would get.

As far as centerfire is concerned, the biggest animals I shoot are coyotes out to 400 M. I shoot my .243 better than anything in the safe. I'm going to try a 22-250 this year.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Dean2

This is exactly what is wrong with these kinds of threads, they invariably devolve into dick measuring contests. It is why I so rarely post on them any more. If guys stuck to; "this is what I use and this is what I learned from it", that would be valuable info. Once they start trying to extrapolate their experience to tell others what they should do, or that the other person's experience isn't valuable or even right, then it turns into a cluster of useless arguments that produce no resolution or benefit.

Agreed.

We have killed a lion, cape buffalo, water buffalo's, and most North American big game animals with stick and strings.

[Pathfinder76]

I have hunted and killed a large number and variety of big game with a considerable array of cartridges. Which include: 243, 243 AI, 6.5x55, 6.5 CM, 260 Rem, 270 wcf, 7-08, 7-08 AI, 7x57, 280 rem, 280 AI, 7mm RM, 7mm Wby, 7mm Mashburn, 308, 30-06, 300 win mag, 338 win Mag, 375 H&H, 375 Ruger and likely one or two I have forgotten.

In my honest opinion, if someone was witness to all the kills with all those cartridges they, 100% of the time, would fail to correctly guess what cartridge was used. I have some favourites, but the absolute last thing I’d worry about when hunting big game in Alberta is modern cartridge selection. And by modern, I mean cartridges developed in the last 120 years.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by chuck

I have hunted and killed a large number and variety of big game with a considerable array of cartridges. Which include: 243, 243 AI, 6.5x55, 6.5 CM, 260 Rem, 270 wcf, 7-08, 7-08 AI, 7x57, 280 rem, 280 AI, 7mm RM, 7mm Wby, 7mm Mashburn, 308, 30-06, 300 win mag, 338 win Mag, 375 H&H, 375 Ruger and likely one or two I have forgotten.

In my honest opinion, if someone was witness to all the kills with all those cartridges they, 100% of the time, would fail to correctly guess what cartridge was used. I have some favourites, but the absolute last thing I’d worry about when hunting big game in Alberta is modern cartridge selection. And by modern, I mean cartridges developed in the last 120 years.

They should close the thread after Chuck's answer above.

[brass410]

I have hunted many years now for vermin to moose. And can only think of maybe three times when the absolute perfect shot was availible (virtually point blank less than 5 yards) add to that as a tracker I suck and hate doing it. I prefer bang drt flop type of kills. And we all know that dosent happen by chance irregardless of calibre/cartridge if your not proficient (reads practice practice from most uncomfortable positions) you are probably gonna have to let it walk or deal with wounding it. Speed/energy/diameter only kills if it hits with accuracy. This is only my theory you may substitute your own if desired.

[raised by wolves]

I own and use a variety of rifles from 223 to 375. I have harvested around 400 big game animals and although I did not track the stats on which rifle I used on each hunt, I would guess that 300+ animals were taken with a 6mm Remington and almost every kill with the little 6mm was anchored in place with one shot. I only recall a couple of runners that dumped after a brief run and only four animals that needed a second shot. Although my main rigs are 270 and 35, I love the 6mm for hunting deer and even elk.

As a teen, my hunting buddies were all on the magnum path but only a couple of them could control their canons. Most could not hit their targets as the recoil was too much.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by sns2

They should close the thread after Chuck's answer above.

Close it ? Why .. because Chucks response was the ultimate blanket statement ??. Surely you can do better than that !

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dean2

This is exactly what is wrong with these kinds of threads, they invariably devolve into dick measuring contests. It is why I so rarely post on them any more. If guys stuck to; "this is what I use and this is what I learned from it", that would be valuable info. Once they start trying to extrapolate their experience to tell others what they should do, or that the other person's experience isn't valuable or even right, then it turns into a cluster of useless arguments that produce no resolution or benefit.

welcome to AO and basically any gathering place to shoot the sheeet...this go's on in all discussions to some degree.

even though some say they did this or done that may or may not be fully truthful...it is what it is always has been and always will.