Riflescope for sheep hunting: multi crosshair reticles

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Every scope maker out there produces a dumb bullet compensation reticle like the mildot. They range in price from under 100 bucks on up. The OP in his first post listed the scopes he was looking at and asked if there was something cheaper that worked the same. The short answer is no, for the ability to adjust the reticle to match your cartridge your choices are extremely limited and none that I know of cost $400. Do you know of one?

BTW, the whinning comment was not directed to you. From what I got from the OP was a BDC reticle over $400 and under $700. It just so happened I've been in the market for a BDC reticle myself, not for a sheep gun, but Minox offer quite a few models. I can take a rifle to the range and figure out exactly what yd each hash mark represents. I don't care if it's 312yds, 407, 585, and 602. So long as I know, besides it not often an animal is exactly 400 yds away.

Some people like to say their stuff is the only good stuff and can't seem to see past their ego. Again not directed to you.

I'd still like to hear an option.

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

sheephunter, your argument that the multi point reticle is faster and simpler to use in field conditions is false

.

Come on stinky...just the fact you have to turn something and I don't pretty much negates your arguement. You might be fast on the knob but you aren't faster than me doing nothing

[Stinky Coyote]

ok, so you keep your scope at what magnification all the time then? what is it for your short mags, 10x roughly....hmmmm, not i said the fly, you can have it, i'll keep my magnification at 4.5x as most situations that will be better, always hunting with the odds in your favor

you seem to think that a quick reach and a rip of the turret could actually cost you, i see more to cost you with the rapid z but you see more to cost you the other way

actual hunting situations, two guys equally good on either system will each get to shot just as fast as each other but one will be more precise

once range has been verified you are have to find it on the reticle, do the appropriate gapping for off yardage, do your wind and shoot

once range verified the turret can be dialed while on way to shooting position, nothing else but wind left to do, no gapping, no finding the right number on reticle, do you get into shooting position and then have range called out from a partner? or do you range from shooting position, or lets say you are by yourself, your going to range before you get the gun anywhere near your face, i know...it all depends...you get the idea here, range is getting done before the eye hits the scope most of the time and only way to be quicker is to have a partner ranging while your lining up, i'm sure we both find out range before we even head to shooting position or on way to shooting position...in that case the turret will already be good to go and in most events even be faster than your system....

this is seriously a moot argument, your system is not faster, you ARE doing something...you are finding the right aim point in a maze of aim points and in most cases to reference from one of these aim points to get appropriate gapping as rarely will the rangefinder tell you the shot is bang on a x00 or x50 yardage....whereas most turret guys can have that done before he even starts looking through the scope...ie; faster

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Not with a second focal plane reticle you don't. You may have used one but I'm not certain you understood what it's capabilities are. It's a simple matter of adjusting the magnification ring for your load at your armospheric conditions. If the load or conditions change, nothing more is required than a slight adjustment in magnification. I do it all the time when I travel.

There's no such thing as custom made reticles for a second focal plane reticles. I think you are confsing it with a first focal plane reticle and in that case you's be right but that's not what I've been talking about.

The Rapid Z is a totally unique reticle that many think they understand and want to discuss its capabilities but unfortunately few really understand it. By your comment above, I'd say you really don't understand how it works or what indeed it is capable of. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.

Well if we get together for some friendly competitive shooting, maybe you can show me how little I know about FFP, SFP, and RZ600 scopes?

This past January I was hunting elk with a bud. We got onto a herd of elk at 490 yards. We both had 3-9x40 RZ600 scopes in hand, just so you know. When it came time to shoot, my bud got settled into a very solid prone position. He had a dead solid rest, had spent hours and hours with his rifle, scope, and load shooting targets out to 700 yards, and now this was going to be a chip shot. He held on the 500 yard line and squeezed one off. He was completely surprised that the elk wandered off, and there was no blood, hair, or any other sign when we walked over. He ALWAYS keeps his scope set at 9x (despite my advise to the contrary when we are still hunting in the bush). He looked down at his scope and it was sitting on 6x. His bullet sailed right over the elk's back.

Ballistic reticle scopes are not calibrated for distance. They are calibrated so that each aiming point gives you a certain amount of angular elevation from the center crosshair. Most commonly, and this is the case with the RZ600, too, the first line/dot is the 300 yard line, which usually is 1.5MOA below the center crosshair, when the scope is set at its highest magnification. The 400 yard mark gives roughly 4.5MOA, and so on. In fact, I can tell you exactly what elevation compensation each mark on the RZ600 reticle gives, at the highest magnification. The problem with your argument is that adjusting the magnification adjusts the elevation compensation scale proportionately for each mark/dot/line, so it cannot compensate for a cartridge that shoots flat as a laser for 300 yards, and then starts to drop like a stone because of the bullet's poor BC. This is why I suggested that if you truly wanted a yardage-calibrated reticle, you would need a customer reticle for your load.

Zeiss knows that most loads will be close to their trajectory profile, and of course you can add elevation by decreasing the magnification. But I would love for you to explain to me how that reticle would work for a .22-250 shooting a Speer 52gr HP at 3798fps with a BC of .225, versus a 7mmRM firing a 180gr Berger VLD at 3000fps. The .22-250 requires 1.5MOA correction at 300 yards, 3.5MOA at 400 yards, 9.1MOA at 600 yards, and 13.2MOA at 700 yards. The 7RM requires 1.8MOA at 300 yards, 4MOA at 400 yards, 8.8MOA, and 11.6MOA at 700 yards. The 600 yard mark in the RZ600 reticle gives 10.3MOA of elevation compensation, and the 700 yard mark, where the thin reticle meets the thick post, gives 13.3MOA. The 600 yard mark would be 1.2MOA too high with the .22-250 and 1.5MOA too high with the 7RM. The 700 yard mark is about bang on for the .22-250, but is 1.7MOA too high with the 7RM (this is about 11.9" too high). The only way to make the reticle work perfectly for any load, is to adjust the magnification for each shot, according to range data that you will have had to work up yourself (and probably have that data on a chart ) At that point, you might as well just use a turret. Trying to use the reticle with a "one setting fits all" mentality is a concession and compromise between the different distance marks in the reticle.

It is impossible for a generic reticle to offer yardage-calibrated aiming points for each of these loads, at each distance, regardless of whether it is a FFP or SFP scope, and regardless of the magnification. At least with any sort of precision

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

BTW, the whinning comment was not directed to you. From what I got from the OP was a BDC reticle over $400 and under $700. It just so happened I've been in the market for a BDC reticle myself, not for a sheep gun, but Minox offer quite a few models. I can take a rifle to the range and figure out exactly what yd each hash mark represents. I don't care if it's 312yds, 407, 585, and 602. So long as I know, besides it not often an animal is exactly 400 yds away.

Some people like to say their stuff is the only good stuff and can't seem to see past their ego. Again not directed to you.

I'd still like to hear an option.

If you've shot much at all you realize that there may be a cartridge that the nonadjustable reticle will work out that close for, but there will many, many more that will be out 50 yards or more. It is simple physics. Yes you can mark that all down on a card on the butt stock to keep track of it but it kind of defeats the purpose of a quick point and shoot ballistic reticle solution.
The market place is full of inexpensive optics lines all claiming to be just as good or comparable to the quality makers. They come and go constantly all looking for the money out of our jeans. If you don't like your choices wait an hour or so and there will be another couple of companies fired up producing optics "just as good as ______". My inbox is already full of email invitations from the new companies at this year’s SHOT Show.
I did give you an answer, to me the OP is looking for a comparable scope with an adjustable ballistic reticle for $400. There isn't one. If I misunderstood the OP then I apologize to him.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

BTW, the whinning comment was not directed to you. From what I got from the OP was a BDC reticle over $400 and under $700. It just so happened I've been in the market for a BDC reticle myself, not for a sheep gun, but Minox offer quite a few models. I can take a rifle to the range and figure out exactly what yd each hash mark represents. I don't care if it's 312yds, 407, 585, and 602. So long as I know, besides it not often an animal is exactly 400 yds away.

Some people like to say their stuff is the only good stuff and can't seem to see past their ego. Again not directed to you.

I'd still like to hear an option.

I've had very good luck with the Burris FFII Tactical scopes, with BP, but if you don't need or want target turrets like those on the Tactical model, you could also use the Burris Sig. Select with BP reticle (I have owned and used this scope, and it works great). That scope is in the price range, and is a great option.

I've killed coyotes and big-game with ballistic reticles out to just shy of 700 yards, and I know they can be made to work, but turrets give me more of a "warm fuzzy", so to speak

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Come on stinky...just the fact you have to turn something and I don't pretty much negates your arguement. You might be fast on the knob but you aren't faster than me doing nothing

Visually figuring out where you need to hold your reticle is not nothing

Where do you hold for 780 yards with a 10mph cross wind? It would probably take you a few seconds to find your POA, would it not?

Stinky, I'm not arguing that the turret system isn't effective or that in fact it doesn't have its advantages because it does. And in skilled hands it is a very effective choice but one of its advantages is not speed. That goes to the ballistic reticle.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should be shooting a ballistic reticle, I'm just trying to keep up with the misinformation that is running rampant in this thread. The biggest downfall the Rapid Z has is that it's so unique and so adaptive that few people really understand they way it works. Hopefully I can help a few people understand the facts rather than believing the myths. Once a parson understands the facts, they can make an informed decision based on those facts. In your case you chose the turret system and obviously it works and I prefer the reticle and obviously it works. Each does some things better than the other. You have to decide what you are willing to compromise to gain. Obviously we have different thoughts on that....nothing wrong with that but one system is not 100% better than the other. There are compromises to both.

If a Rapid Z was not in the budget for me, I'd definitely go with a turret system. I think you get far more from a turret in the lower priced optics. In the mid and high range, not so much.

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Visually figuring out where you need to hold your reticle is not nothing

Where do you hold for 780 yards with a 10mph cross wind? It would probably take you a few seconds to find your POA, would it not?

Nope, not at all. Far side of the 800 yard crosshair low on the chest. No thought required. Both the yardage and the windage are already calculted for me. Another unique feature of the Rapid Z.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

would work for a .22-250 shooting a Speer 52gr HP at 3798fps with a BC of .225,

I thought the question was about a scope for sheep hunting?

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Each does some things better than the other. You have to decide what you are willing to compromise to gain. Obviously we have different thoughts on that....nothing wrong with that but one system is not 100% better than the other. There are compromises to both.

Now this I agree with.

[Stinky Coyote]

doesn't matter how fast you are, go ahead and miss fast lol, make sure that scope magnification ring hasn't moved before your shot as i know if i had one of them i would constantly be checking that beeotch before each shot to ensure i didn't have what happened to Jordans buddy happened, there goes your imaginary 'speed' advantage right there

again, just trying to keep the spread of misinformation here....the rapid z is not faster and in many cases will be slower, especially if you pull off what Jordan's buddy did, ouch, getting caught on the wrong magnification would kinda suck and i bet happens lots, prolly a lot easier to get the magnification ring moved on a stalk/hunt etc. than a turret rotated out of whack, either way, turret gets rotated just about any shot over 300 so its going to get looked at and moved anyhow the dial up is going to happen at more opportune times with turrets then with rapid z

the rapid z offers no advantage over dial up, not even speed

look sheep, the truth sometimes stings a little, it happens, when you and zeiss split the sheets you can really get serious ha ha

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Nope, not at all. Far side of the 800 yard crosshair low on the chest. No thought required. Both the yardage and the windage are already calculted for me. Another unique feature of the Rapid Z.

Okay, perfect. We're on the same page so far. Now what about a 4mph cross wind? There's no calculated mark on the reticle for that, to the best of my memory. You'd have to hold somewhere between two marks, and it would take a couple of seconds to figure out exactly where.

[Stinky Coyote]

the wind math will be equal between solid users of each system, no advantage to either here imo

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Well if we get together for some friendly competitive shooting, maybe you can show me how little I know about FFP, SFP, and RZ600 scopes?

This past January I was hunting elk with a bud. We got onto a herd of elk at 490 yards. We both had 3-9x40 RZ600 scopes in hand, just so you know. When it came time to shoot, my bud got settled into a very solid prone position. He had a dead solid rest, had spent hours and hours with his rifle, scope, and load shooting targets out to 700 yards, and now this was going to be a chip shot. He held on the 500 yard line and squeezed one off. He was completely surprised that the elk wandered off, and there was no blood, hair, or any other sign when we walked over. He ALWAYS keeps his scope set at 9x (despite my advise to the contrary when we are still hunting in the bush). He looked down at his scope and it was sitting on 6x. His bullet sailed right over the elk's back.

Ballistic reticle scopes are not calibrated for distance. They are calibrated so that each aiming point gives you a certain amount of angular elevation from the center crosshair. Most commonly, and this is the case with the RZ600, too, the first line/dot is the 300 yard line, which usually is 1.5MOA below the center crosshair, when the scope is set at its highest magnification. The 400 yard mark gives roughly 4.5MOA, and so on. In fact, I can tell you exactly what elevation compensation each mark on the RZ600 reticle gives, at the highest magnification. The problem with your argument is that adjusting the magnification adjusts the elevation compensation scale proportionately for each mark/dot/line, so it cannot compensate for a cartridge that shoots flat as a laser for 300 yards, and then starts to drop like a stone because of the bullet's poor BC. This is why I suggested that if you truly wanted a yardage-calibrated reticle, you would need a customer reticle for your load.

Zeiss knows that most loads will be close to their trajectory profile, and of course you can add elevation by decreasing the magnification. But I would love for you to explain to me how that reticle would work for a .22-250 shooting a Speer 52gr HP at 3798fps with a BC of .225, versus a 7mmRM firing a 180gr Berger VLD at 3000fps. The .22-250 requires 1.5MOA correction at 300 yards, 3.5MOA at 400 yards, 9.1MOA at 600 yards, and 13.2MOA at 700 yards. The 7RM requires 1.8MOA at 300 yards, 4MOA at 400 yards, 8.8MOA, and 11.6MOA at 700 yards. The 600 yard mark in the RZ600 reticle gives 10.3MOA of elevation compensation, and the 700 yard mark, where the thin reticle meets the thick post, gives 13.3MOA. The 600 yard mark would be 1.2MOA too high with the .22-250 and 1.5MOA too high with the 7RM. The 700 yard mark is about bang on for the .22-250, but is 1.7MOA too high with the 7RM (this is about 11.9" too high). The only way to make the reticle work perfectly for any load, is to adjust the magnification for each shot, according to range data that you will have had to work up yourself (and probably have that data on a chart ) At that point, you might as well just use a turret. Trying to use the reticle with a "one setting fits all" mentality is a concession and compromise between the different distance marks in the reticle.

It is impossible for a generic reticle to offer yardage-calibrated aiming points for each of these loads, at each distance, regardless of whether it is a FFP or SFP scope, and regardless of the magnification. At least with any sort of precision

I think one thing you are missing is that there are three Rapid Z reticles, the 600, 800 and 1,000 and each best represents a cartridge group. Within that cartridge group the reticle does indeed "offer yardage-calibrated aiming points for each of these loads, at each distance" At least accurate enough for a hunting optic to place a kill shot at the indicated distance. If you try to fit a square peg in a round hole, you indeed not experience optimum results.

As for your thoughts on custom reticles, they are useful if you never change elevation or loads. Sadly, that does not apply to the majority of us.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 209x50

If you've shot much at all you realize that there may be a cartridge that the nonadjustable reticle will work out that close for, but there will many, many more that will be out 50 yards or more. It is simple physics. Yes you can mark that all down on a card on the butt stock to keep track of it but it kind of defeats the purpose of a quick point and shoot ballistic reticle solution.
The market place is full of inexpensive optics lines all claiming to be just as good or comparable to the quality makers. They come and go constantly all looking for the money out of our jeans. If you don't like your choices wait an hour or so and there will be another couple of companies fired up producing optics "just as good as ______". My inbox is already full of email invitations from the new companies at this year’s SHOT Show.
I did give you an answer, to me the OP is looking for a comparable scope with an adjustable ballistic reticle for $400. There isn't one. If I misunderstood the OP then I apologize to him.

Here's some of the OP to help you out:

Besides the Zeiss conquest rapid z600 (4X14X44) and the Leupold VX-3 (4X14X40) with the varmint or B&C reticle, are there any other scopes with similar reticles? (preferably more in the $400 range...and not the $700-800 of the Zeiss and Leupold)

Is the Leupold reticle the same as the rapid z?


It seems of any advise I'd follow it would be Jordan Smith, he both reads and understands other posts, and is not sponsored by Zeiss.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I thought the question was about a scope for sheep hunting?

I think it's legal in B.C. to hunt sheep with a .22-250, isn't it? If you don't like the 52gr Speer HP, then sub in the 53gr TSX with a BC of .231. If you don't like the .22-250, then sub in the .257 WM with 75gr X bullet with a BC of .289 or the 80gr TTSX with BC of .316.

The point remains that a super high-velocity bullet with a poor BC will have a different trajectory profile than a moderate-velocity bullet with a very high BC.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I thought the question was about a scope for sheep hunting?

it is, we are just ferreting out the misinformation and helping the op to the best sheep hunting scope he can buy....leupy 4.5-14x40 lr vx3 or mk4, standard duplex reticle, target elevation knob added if vx3 and windage knob replaced to low profile if mk4

secondary aim points good to 500 yrds, after that too much going on and dial up IS the better set up....only need a couple extra aim points to get to 500 so again a leupy lr reticle would be the best choice behind dial up....eitherway, dial up is always the best choice of choices, offers more advantages than any other way

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

doesn't matter how fast you are, go ahead and miss fast lol, make sure that scope magnification ring hasn't moved before your shot as i know if i had one of them i would constantly be checking that beeotch before each shot to ensure i didn't have what happened to Jordans buddy happened, there goes your imaginary 'speed' advantage right there

again, just trying to keep the spread of misinformation here....the rapid z is not faster and in many cases will be slower, especially if you pull off what Jordan's buddy did, ouch, getting caught on the wrong magnification would kinda suck and i bet happens lots, prolly a lot easier to get the magnification ring moved on a stalk/hunt etc. than a turret rotated out of whack, either way, turret gets rotated just about any shot over 300 so its going to get looked at and moved anyhow the dial up is going to happen at more opportune times with turrets then with rapid z

the rapid z offers no advantage over dial up, not even speed

look sheep, the truth sometimes stings a little, its happens, when you and zeiss split the sheets you can really get serious ha ha

In my mind the biggest advantage to the RZ, as I said before, is that you don't have to move any mechanical parts. Even high-quality scopes can have RTZ problems, tracking issues, etc, which is the one downside to using turrets.

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Okay, perfect. We're on the same page so far. Now what about a 4mph cross wind? There's no calculated mark on the reticle for that, to the best of my memory. You'd have to hold somewhere between two marks, and it would take a couple of seconds to figure out exactly where.

Still faster than turning windage knobs after consulting a chart. Placing the lateral mid point of a hash mark on a target is pretty well instantaneous, especially when that mid point is marked on the reticle. Basically I'd hold the 5mph mark on the target. Seems simple enough to me. I think your memory is a bit shaky, the there is an indicated mark at the half way point.

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

the wind math will be equal between solid users of each system, no advantage to either here imo

I don't have to do math...the reticle is marked for 5mph and 10 mph throughout the scope's range so I'd say there is a significant advantage and time saving. Again, I do nothing while you are calculating and turning knobs. It's faster Stinky........I'm pretty fast at doing nothing

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think one thing you are missing is that there are three Rapid Z reticles, the 600, 800 and 1,000 and each best represents a cartridge group. Within that cartridge group the reticle does indeed "offer yardage-calibrated aiming points for each of these loads, at each distance" At least accurate enough for a hunting optic to place a kill shot at the indicated distance. If you try to fit a square peg in a round hole, you indeed not experience optimum results.

As for your thoughts on custom reticles, they are useful if you never change elevation or loads. Sadly, that does not apply to the majority of us.

Agree. But even the 3 different RZ reticles that Zeiss offers still come with concessions, since it means that I can't use a Conquest 3-9x40 RZ600 on my coyote-calling .22-250, or on my lightweight 7WSM with 180gr VLD. The 3-9x40 doesn't come with any other RZ reticle, either, so that means the 3-9x40 would not be usable with those rifle setups. And there is no scope in Zeiss' lineup that better matches either of those rifles, for my uses.

You are right that the 3 different RZ reticles helps to mitigate the problem I've been describing, but it still comes with some baggage due to their limited reticle/scope combination offerings.

My Conquest 3-9x40 RZ600 has target turrets installed. My bud that I mentioned before has an identical scope, but without the turrets. Turrets enable you to use any scope and any load combination, and the trajectory compensation will match the load, regardless of the limited offerings from a manufacturer

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

I think it's legal in B.C. to hunt sheep with a .22-250, isn't it? If you don't like the 52gr Speer HP, then sub in the 53gr TSX with a BC of .231. If you don't like the .22-250, then sub in the .257 WM with 75gr X bullet with a BC of .289 or the 80gr TTSX with BC of .316.

The point remains that a super high-velocity bullet with a poor BC will have a different trajectory profile than a moderate-velocity bullet with a very high BC.

Sure in that case I’d recommend the reticle designed for use with varmint bullets. I’d recommend a different one for a 45/70 as well. You really should match your gear to the application
.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Still faster than turning windage knobs after consulting a chart. Placing the lateral mid point of a hash mark on a target is pretty well instantaneous, especially when that mid point is marked on the reticle. Basically I'd hold the 5mph mark on the target. Seems simple enough to me. I think your memory is a bit shaky, the there is an indicated mark at the half way point.

you can make your wind as slow to figure as you want with turret setup....or you can make it just as easy and quick as rapid z, i have my 10 mph wind every 100 yrds same as you, a mere glance less than 1" above my eyepiece, if its 36" for 600 yrds (example only) it only takes a nano to do 18" for 5mph and hold for about 16" for 4 mph, there would be just as much accuracy and speed between either system, as i said before, trained guys on each system the wind math will be moot...again, i'll figure my wind out and shoot just as fast as a good rapid z user

NO ADVANTAGE HERE

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Agree. But even the 3 different RZ reticles that Zeiss offers still come with concessions, since it means that I can't use a Conquest 3-9x40 RZ600 on my coyote-calling .22-250, or on my lightweight 7WSM with 180gr VLD. The 3-9x40 doesn't come with any other RZ reticle, either, so that means the 3-9x40 would not be usable with those rifle setups. And there is no scope in Zeiss' lineup that better matches either of those rifles, for my uses.

You are right that the 3 different RZ reticles helps to mitigate the problem I've been describing, but it still comes with some baggage due to their limited reticle/scope combination offerings.

My Conquest 3-9x40 RZ600 has target turrets installed. My bud that I mentioned before has an identical scope, but without the turrets. Turrets enable you to use any scope and any load combination, and the trajectory compensation will match the load, regardless of the limited offerings from a manufacturer

Never said they were perfect or suited to all applications, nor does Zeiss. In fact quite the opposite. Just clearing up a multitude of misinformation. If they don't fiit your need, you shouldn't buy one. I don't see the point of a Rapid Z with turrets. If I was going the turret route I'd go with a single reticle but if it works for you that's great.

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

you can make your wind as slow to figure as you want with turret setup....or you can make it just as easy and quick as rapid z, i have my 10 mph wind every 100 yrds same as you, a mere glance less than 1" above my eyepiece, if its 36" for 600 yrds (example only) it only takes a nano to do 18" for 5mph and hold for about 16" for 4 mph, there would be just as much accuracy and speed between either system, as i said before, trained guys on each system the wind math will be moot...again, i'll figure my wind out and shoot just as fast as a good rapid z user

NO ADVANTAGE HERE

Stinky, I think the thing you are missing is that doing nothing is doing nothing...quite literally nothing. Doing something will always take longer than doing nothing.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I don't have to do math...the reticle is marked for 5mph and 10 mph throughout the scope's range so I'd say there is a significant advantage and time saving. Again, I do nothing while you are calculating and turning knobs. It's faster Stinky........I'm pretty fast at doing nothing

i don't turn any knobs for wind either sheep, and we will be the same speed to wind guess and shot release if we have exactly a 600 yrd shot,but if its 636 yrds, you have to gap your 600 and 650 hash marks and then reference the 5 mph mark above on the 600 yrd line....the only part of a crosshair on the target might be the 600 yrd line on top of his back maybe? i just have to move my crosshair directly along the middle of the body about 16-18" and good to go...you and me you'd probably lay money you could get a more accurate 636 yrd shot off in 4mph wind faster than i...but i would lay money i would beat you to speed to shot AND be closer to the mark

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Still faster than turning windage knobs after consulting a chart. Placing the lateral mid point of a hash mark on a target is pretty well instantaneous, especially when that mid point is marked on the reticle. Basically I'd hold the 5mph mark on the target. Seems simple enough to me. I think your memory is a bit shaky, the there is an indicated mark at the half way point.

Thanks for the correction. Like I say, I couldn't remember for certain whether it did or didn't.

Crosswinds are easy. It's going to take you some time when we start getting into even a 5mph wind coming from 1:30, or a 10mph wind from 7:00.

The point of this wind discussion, is that there is no "pre-calculated" windage correction, whether reticle or turret. Wind is the single biggest and most difficult factor to compensate for in all of this LR shooting, and the windage correction varies so much between wind directions, wind strengths, individual loads and bullets, etc, that you're going to have to make a judgement call and do a little calculation in your head no matter what system you use. Unless it is a calm day

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

i just have to move my crosshair directly along the middle of the body about 16-18" and good to go...

LOL...there's nothing stopping me from guesstimating a windage holdover either I guess.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Stinky, I think the thing you are missing is that doing nothing is doing nothing...quite literally nothing. Doing something will always take longer than doing nothing.

no, you are missing the point, you are not doing nothing as you say

you are checking your magnification ring, better be with that system

you are gapping or referencing points of aim on a grid full of points of aim

you are checking your wind, making your guess as to wind speed if not using a meter, you are compensating and then moving into the wind and if not on a 100 yrd even line your aimpoint on the animal doesn't even have crosshair on it....gapping with more gapping, yup, its fast alright, a fast way to miss in more cases than with turret

you'll come around, you are stubborn though, could be awhile yet