NZ bans all semi-autos

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by dgrimard

This says it right here I would hope that all licensed gun owners are responsible, if they aren't there is no reason to have them.

This is the problem that people who are responsible are not the ones doing the crimes, but we are at the for front of them wanting to take private property.

The drunk driving/ distracted driving argument comparing the 2 acts are very relevant in my mind, a way to get all public involved.

Should we take way all the semi trucks cause some one ran a stop sign and killed 16 people?
No, that person is charged and has a trial and is found either guilty or not.
but the talk of banning trucks is not brought up.

Why is it that every time there is a shooting we have to have these discussion?

It is 4am and my mind is a little slow night shift is funn

It's probably because Firearms are considered Weapons, even by those who own them and choose to call them "Weapons". Trucks are a necessity. Weapons are Easy Pickin's.

[gunluvr]

Jacinda Ardern's kneejerk reaction to the tragic mass shootings in New Zealand is to serve one purpose- to make it LOOK LIKE she did something to prevent anything like this from happening again. It's political posturing to satisfy some vocal elements and relieve pressure on her government to protect people from fear...Fear of being targeted by those who may hate you because you are different, or perhaps aligned with others who hate.
I don't know if there will ever be a world where hatred doesn't exist, but taking away "tools" that those who hate could possibly use isn't going to get us there.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Salavee

While I agree with your sentiments, I don't see the logic. There is no way I would want any guns hanging in a back window rack of my vehicle today ..law or not, so I don't see that as a compromise. It was a necessity. It might have been cool at that time but it would be considered stupid and irresponsible today. Times ,and people, have changed a lot (and faster) over the years. What is considered "cool" today, certainly would not have been very cool back in the day and vice-versa.


As for the PAL being a compromise? What about a Drivers License ? or a Certified Electrician, or a Dentist , Doctor, Crane Operator etc. Same idea...Proof of Competence, or close to it. A good thing.

Whether we like it or not, it's a completely different society,with a completely different set of attitudes and values today than it was 50 or 60 years ago. When we see a certain trend coming, we had best band together and brush up on our user responsibilities and negotiating skills or be prepared for the inevitable outcome. ..as I see it, anyway.

I compromised with the antis when my fac was no longer valid and I has to spend my money and time to take a pal course. I know you're old enough to have had a fac. Are you a safer more responsible gun owner after taking the pal course?
The safe storage is another compromise. Growing up the closet was a safe place to have guns. Now I got to have everything locked up and ammo stored separately.

Has any of these compromises made Canada any safer? I don't feel any safer having my guns in a safe then I did with them in my closet.

What have the antis given up? Nothing. Would they sleep better knowing that the AR I had is banned.

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

Jacinda Ardern's kneejerk reaction to the tragic mass shootings in New Zealand is to serve one purpose- to make it LOOK LIKE she did something to prevent anything like this from happening again. It's political posturing to satisfy some vocal elements and relieve pressure on her government to protect people from fear...Fear of being targeted by those who may hate you because you are different, or perhaps aligned with others who hate.
I don't know if there will ever be a world where hatred doesn't exist, but taking away "tools" that those who hate could possibly use isn't going to get us there.

Yes^^^

[wildbill]

First off, what happened in Christchurch was a tragedy, but, mass murders like this happen on a daily basis in third world countries on this fabulous planet of ours, look at the Mexican drug war alone, 100,000+ murdered, that’s just Mexico, now you go across the pond, it’s worse, way worse, I worked with Liberians, what they endured, I will not repeat, all I’m getting at is, I ain’t gonna jump on no band wagon, just because hevean forbid we got our little first world feathers got ruffled, we are lucky, that no major war has happened on first world soil for a long time, and when something like this happens “oh heavens to Betsy” we’re all gonna die!
What makes first world lives more important that 3rd world lives?
Our society is such a mixed pot, ten generations from now, we’ll all be grey, it’s inevitable, but, till we get there, she’ll be a bumpy ride, being as such, I’m gonna try to remember where in the lake those guns fell out..........just in case, insurance is in pain in the wallet....until you need it, hind sight is twenty/20.
Religeon, greed, and, power.............the root cause of most wars......

[WhiteTailAB]

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....up-work-49168/


I imagine the queens cowboys would do the same to us.

[JeanCretien]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....up-work-49168/





I imagine the queens cowboys would do the same to us.

Wow. Thanks for the link. For me it shows how desperate they are to disarm all of us. One place at a tome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rembo]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...PoskliW2wPQuIg

That didn't take long.
Predictable though.

[32-40win]

Seriously doubt he'll get an answer, but, the questions do need to be asked, from a post on the NFA group;

I've officially taken the plunge into journalism, I guess all my lengthy replies and rants had to evolve into something more. I was asked by a publication to write an article surrounding the Christchurch incident. Initially, my interest of Christchurch, and finding answers to questions neither the NZ government or media could answer, were for my own satisfaction and closure. I have read and heard many questions surrounding the horrific act, some legitimate, others wild, conspiratorial and born from the distrust of media and governments. I have been working quite hard over the last couple of weeks to piece together some of the hard questions, which I'm sure some if not most will come out during Mr. Tarrants trial. It was when the government of NZ threatened 10-14 years of prison for merely observing evidence that drove me to dig away at this. So far they have charged two men, one 18 and the other 44 with a possibility of a decade behind bars and hundreds of thousands in fines. The mainstream media has provided information as to what happened but not the how, why and when. The government has only produced a who and what but the rest has been purely emotional and ideological. We face our own privileges and property being taken away here, sparked by a similar incident on the Danforth. Initially, media and police stated he was merely a mentally disturbed individual that had obtained a gun illegally, a firearm sourced from the United States. After studying the video, I speculated otherwise. Months later and primarily due to civilian data mining, it was proved that the Danforth shooter did indeed have terror links, had sent significant sums of money abroad to Pakistan, and did have training. My aim is to find the hard facts, the truth and to try and make sense of this senseless act of terror. I still have work to do and sources to speak to but hopefully I'll have something written soon.

The NZ Police Media Dept. requested a formal email. This is the email sent and questions I'll hopefully get answers to.

Good day,

My name is Adam Cairns, and I am a fairly new independent journalist from Toronto, Canada. I have been asked by a couple publications to pen an article about the Christchurch mosque shooting, as well attaining official information for members of parliament of my government. I served in the Canadian Armed Forces (army), currently work in the armoured car industry for over 12 years, shoot competitively, an activist for firearms safety and studying gunsmithing. I caught the attention of my MP after a similar incident happened in Toronto, last summer. Initially, both the media and Toronto Police Services, claimed it was simply a mentally ill individual who had illegally purchased a pistol that was sourced from the United States. I examined the footage quite closely and noticed physical tells of the shooter such as thumb position and stance and speculated from my experience that he had training at some point. Several months later and primarily due to civilian data mining, it was indeed proved that the individual had terror links, had sent money to Pakistan and had been trained by militants. Bill C-71 was introduced to combat the issue however, it centred purely around legal firearms owners rather than focusing on gangs, organized crime and the illegal importation of firearms from the United States. We have also been exploring a potential ban on certain firearms as well. Needless to say, the horrific incident in Christchurch, has supercharged that debate in Canada.

Albeit there has been plenty of media coverage and articles surrounding the attack, there are important details that haven't been answered. Details that not only concern the firearms community in Canada, and public safety advocates, but our government as well.

From what we understand of Brenton Tarrant, he is a 28 year old male originally from Australia. He has no post secondary education, no military service, no extensive firearms training (officially) and he was a physical trainer at a gym.

1.Why wasn't he on the radar of police or intelligence services? A brief breakdown of who this individual is was given as well as past years of travel within 24 hours of the incident. A destination of that travel being North Korea, a country you don't simply fly into on a whim. I have researched what it takes to enter that country and a person(s) must be essentially vetted and invited. One can not simply jump on Air Canada, and land in the hermit kingdom. After visiting a country known for cyber espionage, terrorism and threatening the world with nuclear weapons, one would certainly be on a list, especially if the visit was not in an official capacity.

2.The gun store in NZ, stated to the media that although Mr. Tarrant, purchased several firearms online from their business, none were used in the mosque attack. From what I understand of firearms laws in NZ, one would need a class E license to purchase an AR type rifle; Mr. Tarrant, only had an A class. Were the firearms illegally obtained? Did they possibly originate from outside of the country? This question is of particular interest to myself and my MP, as combating illegally imported firearms or stolen firearms is of great concern to us.

3.Considering Mr. Tarrant only held a secondary school diploma, had no university education and was employed as a physical trainer, how he funded his act of terror is of interest. Whether his firearms were sourced legally or illegally, the weapons he employed are quite expensive, let alone the optics that were mounted on them. He stated in his manifesto that he had invested into a crypto currency at one point, it does stretch the belief that he was able to afford and fund his past travels and equipment given his employment and the limited capital he would have to invest. Did he have funding from a group he was associated with or a source(s) outside of NZ?

4. Firearms training. This has been an issue raised here by media, government members, police, firearms enthusiasts and myself. I have a fair amount of experience behind an AR platform, shotguns, pistols, etc. It takes a lot of dry practice with instructors and range time to be proficient from a static position at a range, let alone while mobile and in a high stress situation. Was Mr. Tarrant, a member of any ranges in NZ? He transitioned between firearms with relative ease and calm, as well as magazines changes and clearing stoppages. That is not indicative of a new or untrained shooter, as was the case with the Danforth shooter in Toronto last summer. Instructors do post tutorials online on how to safely service and maintain the firearms he used, even range drills; but online tutorials alone would not account for real world deployment and use of such firearms.

5. Suppression of evidence. Whether it be Oklahoma, 9/11, London Tube, Spanish commuter, Toronto van attack, etc; the suppression of the evidence and the manner is a first. I completely understand the position of the government on blocking it's availability as quickly as possible, as it may give inspiration to copycats, incite other groups to retaliate or lend itself as propaganda to hate groups online. However, there are legitimate individuals such as independent journalists who would look at such a thing objectively. Mr. Tarrant, seemingly came out of nowhere, has shocked the entire world with this act of terror and media and citizens alike have many questions. How has it been justified to not only charge a citizen for possession but with 10-14 years in prison? That alone raised the most eyebrows in Canada. A person charged with second degree murder in Canada, wouldn't see that many years behind bars, so it begs the question, why that harsh a penalty? I do have a remedial understanding of objectionable material laws but the length of a possible sentence is astounding and to be honest, absurd. From what I've read in other media sources, two individuals have been charged so far, both males aged 18 and 44. Have others faced charges as well?

6. Publications that focus on conspiracy have made wild claims surrounding the incident, claims most would completely dismiss. While I may be new to journalism, I am very familiar with firearms and ballistics. They did point out two issues that I couldn't ignore. Nearing the end of livestream Mr. Tarrant posted, he fired several shells from a pump action shotgun from his vehicle, the first and second at his own windshield. No breakage was observed. He jammed, performed an immediate action and fired a third shell through the passenger window which did shatter. Mr. Tarrant, did state in his manifesto that he did not wish to engage the police nor harm them fatally. While the claim is absurd in itself, did Mr. Tarrant employ any blank rounds or shells during his assault?
End of the livestream. I did not observe Mr. Tarrant, reach for his head mounted camera at any time during the footage. Has it been stated how his stream ended, whether it was initiated by himself or Facebook?

7. Firearms ban. I would be safe to assume a number of constables are firearms enthusiasts themselves. How have police felt about the ban on the firearms used? Do the police feel it is just or unjust removing the privileges of heavily vetted and law abiding citizens? Has there been much resistance from the firearms community? Will there be a forceful confiscation of firearms now or in the near future?

8.When did the police service receive it's first call in regards to the mosque shooting? There have been questions surrounding the response time. Working in an armoured car, if I call in a suspicious vehicle I will be surrounded by constables within 5 minutes. It is easily understood no persons in the mosque would have had time to reach for their phone but with loud and sustained gunfire, one would assume a passerby or persons in nearby buildings would call quite quickly. Did the Christchurch Police Service, receive any call(s) with the intent to distract or divert constables elsewhere?

I really appreciate your time in reading my email and look forward to your reply. I understand, as was stated on the phone with the media department previous, that answers may or will be limited due to the ongoing investigation. My heart goes out to the people of New Zealand, the Muslim community, government, police and emergency services having endured this horrific act. I grieve for the loss of lives and hope justice will be served appropriately. I would also like to thank the New Zealand police department for your service and stay safe out there.

Sincerely,
J. Adam Cairns

[32-40win]

And then there is their explanation of the publication ban on the shooter's manifesto, the vid is interesting, and I can understand the notion of not giving this guy any more free promotion;

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...id-shanks.html

[Unregistered user]

Gun owners should not accept any kind of gun control because the crooked politicians will always go after the next "Most scary" category of guns until we are completely disarmed. It is the marxist way and has been going on in all of the civilised countries for decades, some are a little quicker at it than others.

[ShortsideK]

Originally Posted by Camdec

Sorry all. I’m a hunter, trapper, and sportsman....also an owner of a semi auto (.22 mind you). I’ve hunted big game, small game, and many in between. I’ve always questioned why the general public has access to high powered semi-autos. Especially those often used in mass shootings.
Taking away our rights you say? Roll the clock back to the days of “flint lock - make it good” days. That was a big advancement from the bow and arrow. It’s a new world.
Got to be honest. I like a world of “non assault rifles”, bump stock, and all that other stuff non hunting. Keep it to good old lever action, bolt action, and single shot rounds.
I fear the concept of give an inch and take a mile amongst the anti-gun folks, but these kind of things didn’t occur back when I took hunter training.
Ouch....bring on the nay sayers

I totally agree.
How about this scary thought? A federal referendum.
That will quiet things down. Ha!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ShortsideK

I totally agree.
How about this scary thought? A federal referendum.
That will quiet things down. Ha!

Why would the government hold a referendum, when they don't care what the public wants?

[CaberTosser]

The thought of a referendum on gun control is frightening considering how so much if the population is either completely uninformed or entirely misinformed about firearms. Having the government parroting the bias and doctored statistics of the gun control lobby certainly does not help educate the public.

Lots of times I wish for referendums on certain things but for gun control it would certainly not be such a case. That old adage about “The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter” would apply more than ever on this topic. With the staggering amount of knowledge available literally at our fingertips but that we still have people believing in so many different utterly bogus things I’m becoming less of a believer in referendums... or at least not a universal believer in them.

[32-40win]

Only seems to be out on FB, but, I watched it last nite, it is a sad commentary on politics in general, this is the public announcement of their legislation on firearms. I posted the document in the C71 thread. This is very hard to watch, it is truly disgusting;

https://www.facebook.com/1NEWSNZ/vid...wODIzOTg3ODE5/

[Don_Parsons]

There are people like me that still believe the world is flat and that the sun revolves around our planet. Ha...

I need to travel more of the North and South pole to find the drop off's.

Of course I'll follow the sun to get there.

👍

[32-40win]

NZ is pushing this to the limit to get it thru the system to become law, these laws were written and in storage, ready to go, well before this incident ever occurred.

https://www.firearmownersunited.com/...TbXgyG0KB6xQrA

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

Jacinda Ardern's kneejerk reaction to the tragic mass shootings in New Zealand is to serve one purpose- to make it LOOK LIKE she did something to prevent anything like this from happening again. It's political posturing to satisfy some vocal elements and relieve pressure on her government to protect people from fear...Fear of being targeted by those who may hate you because you are different, or perhaps aligned with others who hate.
I don't know if there will ever be a world where hatred doesn't exist, but taking away "tools" that those who hate could possibly use isn't going to get us there.

Yup but some people are just too stupid to see this....

[ShortsideK]

Shoot first, ask questions later.