The Data from Pigeon lake Public meetings.

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #1 03-09-2009, 01:15 PM

Ive also posted this in the sticky , named pigeon lake . This information was handed out at the meetings , Ive scanned it and am posting and sharing it with everyone who was unable to make the meeting .I think its better to start a new thread with this Data .

happy perch fisher · #2 03-09-2009, 05:44 PM

What a bunch of bs data i never seen so few whitefish as the last 3 years. Yet there saying the numbers are increasing. This info is total bs this info looks like they just copied it off the signs around the lake and handed it out to you guys. There saying everything is turning back to healthy state my ass it is. No perch only a few more super whitefish left that are smarter then your average fisherman. Sure the pike lost lots of the spawning ground but theres still plenty around for the few remaining pike. Maybe the reason that there numbers are so down is because everyone keeps everything they legal can out of there. There are so few big pike around i would say there where 50to100 times more big pike 10 years ago.That info is all bs it not worth the time to read even.

Redfrog · #3 03-09-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy perch fisher

What a bunch of bs data i never seen so few whitefish as the last 3 years. Yet there saying the numbers are increasing. This info is total bs this info looks like they just copied it off the signs around the lake and handed it out to you guys. There saying everything is turning back to healthy state my ass it is. No perch only a few more super whitefish left that are smarter then your average fisherman. Sure the pike lost lots of the spawning ground but theres still plenty around for the few remaining pike. Maybe the reason that there numbers are so down is because everyone keeps everything they legal can out of there. There are so few big pike around i would say there where 50to100 times more big pike 10 years ago.That info is all bs it not worth the time to read even.

And what science are your statements based on?

hal53 · #4 03-09-2009, 06:43 PM

Science???????...HPF don't need no ******* science....he already knows everything......

happy perch fisher · #5 03-09-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfrog

And what science are your statements based on?

My experinces and sighting over the last 15 years of fishing that lake. That lake went from being able to catch a couple big pike tons of whitefish and tons of perch and some hog walleye. To having only small pike lots of same size stocker walleye no perch and couple thousand super whites that are dieing of old age. I've seen the masscures that have happened on pigion from people that didn't give a ****.

redneck posse · #6 03-09-2009, 07:17 PM

have to agree i remember being able to head out to pigeon and catching 30 perch over 10 inches ice fishing. and big pike all day long.

try that now. hell try to find 5 perch over 10 inches in there now

fluxcore · #7 03-09-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy perch fisher

What a bunch of bs data i never seen so few whitefish as the last 3 years. Yet there saying the numbers are increasing. This info is total bs this info looks like they just copied it off the signs around the lake and handed it out to you guys. There saying everything is turning back to healthy state my ass it is. No perch only a few more super whitefish left that are smarter then your average fisherman. Sure the pike lost lots of the spawning ground but theres still plenty around for the few remaining pike. Maybe the reason that there numbers are so down is because everyone keeps everything they legal can out of there. There are so few big pike around i would say there where 50to100 times more big pike 10 years ago.That info is all bs it not worth the time to read even.

I hate to say it but I agree, the lake has been on a down turn the last couple of years. Everyone who fishes it regulary has been noticing it

Bear Ballz · #8 03-09-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfrog

And what science are your statements based on?

If you fish that lake enough, you know it sucks from what it used to be. Myself and lots of others who have fished it regularly over the years, know that the lake is slipping fast. I only hope the new strategies being implemented will help. But in the end it all comes down to people and how they govern THEMSELVES

my .02

hal53 · #9 03-09-2009, 07:45 PM

so...why don't we shut down the lake for fishing for a year??????..see if that helps (?),,,or if there is another problem there...

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #10 03-09-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53

so...why don't we shut down the lake for fishing for a year??????..see if that helps (?),,,or if there is another problem there...

It would take much more then a year , about 15 would be perfect .

happy perch fisher · #11 03-09-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGBADJOHN

It would take much more then a year , about 15 would be perfect .

More like 30 if no restocking is done

Rockymtnx · #12 03-09-2009, 10:30 PM

I was away on vacation and unable to attend the meetings.
Did SRD actually come out and say what some of their future plans are?

steelhead · #13 03-09-2009, 10:52 PM

Catch and release and zero retention and barbless hooks sure did help alot of lakes in Alberta didnt it?

It saved the trout, but is destroying our prairie, parkland and boreal lakes. Maybee trout should be managed seperatly from the other species as when they came up with some good rules to save trout, then blanket regulate all species with thier rules, we find out 10 years later that it doesnt seem to work for the other species, and in fact, made it worse!

Oh, and all that data they produced for ya, well, thats what you get when there wasnt a lick of research done or enough population assessments done. More is done to save the pothole rainbows!

STEELHEAD

buckmaster · #14 03-10-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneck posse

have to agree i remember being able to head out to pigeon and catching 30 perch over 10 inches ice fishing. and big pike all day long.

try that now. hell try to find 5 perch over 10 inches in there now

x2, i remember days where a limit of whitefish in a couple of hours wasnt surprising!

JohninAB · #15 03-10-2009, 08:34 AM

HPF, you should be a fisheries biologist because you seem to know everything based on your exhaustive research and sound scientific principles. Sure glad you are not responsible for managing any fishery anywhere!

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe keeping those limits of whitefish and perch back in the day may have had an impact on their current populations?

That habitat loss along the shorelines has had a devastating effect on pike populations. Doesn't matter what is left, habitat has been lost and with the loss of this habitat the number of pike will have gone down as well.

Anyone here ever considered the rise in the recreational use of this lake compared to say 15 years ago?

Or how about the ice fishermen who are catching the pike on those cold days and holding it out of the water for 5 minutes or better to take pictures of it and then releasing it back down the hole to swim for another day supposedly. Well maybe that fish didn't survive as its eyes became frozen while pictures were being taken, or by being out of the water in the cold for those pictures has stressed the fish to the point where it cannot survive.

Lots of issues on that lake but I will trust the trained professionals to do the best they can with what they have to work with.

FiveO · #16 03-10-2009, 08:47 AM

I hate to to do it but I agree with HPF. The closure of Walleye has F'D up a ton of lakes. Saint Anne was before the closure a great Walleye, Perch and pike lake. All thats left are 2-3 pound walleye. I think a mistake was made by the government and they dont want to eat crow.
Sure lots of other factor's but defenitly a common denominator

Bear Ballz · #17 03-10-2009, 08:58 AM

o

Bear Ballz · #18 03-10-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe keeping those limits of whitefish and perch back in the day may have had an impact on their current populations
That habitat loss along the shorelines has had a devastating effect on pike populations. Doesn't matter what is left, habitat has been lost and with the loss of this habitat the number of pike will have gone down as well.

Anyone here ever considered the rise in the recreational use of this lake compared to say 15 years ago?

x2 excellent points, the population and usage of Pigeon has exploded.

nicemustang · #19 03-10-2009, 09:11 AM

I think education of how to properly catch and release fish so they don't die would help as well. The numbers are shocking on this stat. Seems like common sense to me but some people must have no idea how to do this properly.

steelhead · #20 03-10-2009, 11:30 AM

LOL, they need some to die! lots of them. commercial fishing used to do that job for the sportanglers. The big ones have big appetites and thier all big in there. They need to yard out a whole pile of predators for a while, let the bait fish and forage get healthy, then the predators will slowly come back and stable.

I said this years ago, theyre eating themselves out of house and home, there has to be retention in these lakes to keep some kind of balance. Bathtubs with stocked fish. Let the anglers keep some, or let the commercial nets at it again, and hard.

STEELHEAD

Penner · #21 03-10-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluxcore

I hate to say it but I agree, the lake has been on a down turn the last couple of years. Everyone who fishes it regulary has been noticing it

I will have to respectfully disagree as I have had the best success for catching / seeing Whitefish in Pigeon over the past 2 years then I have ever had before. By a long shot and the quality of the Whitefish are awesome. I've also been fishing Pigeon for numerous years.

I will put more trust into a scientific study such as "test netting" than I will in someone's personal experience or perspective. The facts are the facts.

Not sure if I'm all that excited with commercial fishing making its return tho! Boo!

HFP....ummh you have issues dude! Maybe HFP = Has Frustration Problems???

happy perch fisher · #22 03-10-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohninAB

HPF, you should be a fisheries biologist because you seem to know everything based on your exhaustive research and sound scientific principles. Sure glad you are not responsible for managing any fishery anywhere!

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe keeping those limits of whitefish and perch back in the day may have had an impact on their current populations?

That habitat loss along the shorelines has had a devastating effect on pike populations. Doesn't matter what is left, habitat has been lost and with the loss of this habitat the number of pike will have gone down as well.

Anyone here ever considered the rise in the recreational use of this lake compared to say 15 years ago?

Or how about the ice fishermen who are catching the pike on those cold days and holding it out of the water for 5 minutes or better to take pictures of it and then releasing it back down the hole to swim for another day supposedly. Well maybe that fish didn't survive as its eyes became frozen while pictures were being taken, or by being out of the water in the cold for those pictures has stressed the fish to the point where it cannot survive.

Lots of issues on that lake but I will trust the trained professionals to do the best they can with what they have to work with.

I've said this stuff tons of times over last few years. Lol i been preaching about overharvesting of whitefish and perch for years. I didn't know if you where directing that at me. But i'm diffently not if you read any of my post you could see that preaty easily. I know that habbit lost did alot of damage. But do you think the lost of over 90percent of the spawning size pike could be a bigger factor. Theres still lots of places for pike to spawn in pigion. Yah that what i was getting to about tipups so many times pike take the bait deep and people will perform surgery on them to get there 3 dollar rig back.
So if its cold like you said the pike will be screwed if it hasn't already been killed by the surgery performed on it. Oh yah surgery is a nice way of me saying them pulling as hard as they can hoping there barb hooks come out.

happy perch fisher · #23 03-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhead

LOL, they need some to die! lots of them. commercial fishing used to do that job for the sportanglers. The big ones have big appetites and thier all big in there. They need to yard out a whole pile of predators for a while, let the bait fish and forage get healthy, then the predators will slowly come back and stable.

I said this years ago, theyre eating themselves out of house and home, there has to be retention in these lakes to keep some kind of balance. Bathtubs with stocked fish. Let the anglers keep some, or let the commercial nets at it again, and hard.

STEELHEAD

Its not as easy as that pigion been decimated and the other fish need restocking in order for them to come back. They did'nt have the money so its not going to happen. There not big in pigion there all average. The bigger walleye are all gone now thanks to the tags. Thats all i'm going to say about this i'm not going to rewrite it all agian.

happy perch fisher · #24 03-10-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penner

I will have to respectfully disagree as I have had the best success for catching / seeing Whitefish in Pigeon over the past 2 years then I have ever had before. By a long shot and the quality of the Whitefish are awesome. I've also been fishing Pigeon for numerous years.

I will put more trust into a scientific study such as "test netting" than I will in someone's personal experience or perspective. The facts are the facts.

Not sure if I'm all that excited with commercial fishing making its return tho! Boo!

HFP....ummh you have issues dude! Maybe HFP = Has Frustration Problems???

Yah there has allows been big whitefish in pigion. Except they where always smarter and the you where ussually to busy catching the average size whitefish to try for them. Penner your one of only people that say the fishing has gotten better for whitefish. Penner i've seen your post on the fishing alberta message borad. I know your bs bragger. Bragging about imaginer fish you caught saying you caught tons of whitefish out of pigion but never showing any kind of proof. I've seen so many people like you i can spot them right off the bat now. I stopped pointing them out to people but since you took a shot a me i thought i would just point that out.

pdfish · #25 03-10-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy perch fisher

Its not as easy as that pigion been decimated and the other fish need restocking in order for them to come back. They did'nt have the money so its not going to happen. There not big in pigion there all average. The bigger walleye are all gone now thanks to the tags. Thats all i'm going to say about this i'm not going to rewrite it all agian.

The bigger walleye were gone before the tag system came into effect. A few big ones were caught from what I heard/saw but not one came close to some of the hawgs I saw outta Pigeon about 5-6 years ago.

seahawkfisher · #26 03-10-2009, 05:44 PM

am i the only one who sees some merit in the logic behind what srd has published? my interpretation is that they see that 0 walleye retention was, perhaps, not a great idea; they might be learning from their own mistakes. if the result of their research is a change to regulations that can, and hopefully will lead to an improved fishery, then they might be willing to adopt similar regulations to more lakes and, in a perfect world, lead to better fishing across the province.
i am well aware that we don't live in a perfect world; we have far too many people not willing to follow regulations (as hpf has constantly reminded us about) but the only way that changes of any sort can be sucessful is with the help of both education to help all anglers better understand our current situation and dilligence on behalf of the ethical angler.
i bet that we would have more f&w officers out there if there was no possible way of keeping up with the # of calls to RAP. when people while and complain about a lack of enforcement in a venue such as this, it promotes apathy that leads to not calling RAP to protect what we have, rather than striving for a solution.
just my $0.02
cheers

happy perch fisher · #27 03-10-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdfish

The bigger walleye were gone before the tag system came into effect. A few big ones were caught from what I heard/saw but not one came close to some of the hawgs I saw outta Pigeon about 5-6 years ago.

It was the first years of the tags when it was 1over50cm. Everyone was nailing 24-28inch walleye and keeping them if u can find old post back then your see that. People where saying that it was harder to find those sizes toward the end of that year.

pdfish · #28 03-10-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy perch fisher

It was the first years of the tags when it was 1over50cm. Everyone was nailing 24-28inch walleye and keeping them if u can find old post back then your see that. People where saying that it was harder to find those sizes toward the end of that year.

The first year of the tags was 2006. By then, the lake had been closed for walleye retention for 11 years. It was already well into its downswing regarding fish size (not numbers) by the time people received their tags that first year.

gunslinger · #29 03-10-2009, 09:33 PM

i also have to agree, we used to fish pigeon because you were guarnteed a huge old walleye or a 15 pound pike fishign the west side of zeiners, now and if we even go, you cant even get your hook to bottom without one of them 2 pounders hitting it. i havent caught a big fish out of there for a long time and it used to be a given.

and no perch to speak of anymore either.

Penner · #30 03-11-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy perch fisher

Yah there has allows been big whitefish in pigion. Except they where always smarter and the you where ussually to busy catching the average size whitefish to try for them. Penner your one of only people that say the fishing has gotten better for whitefish. Penner i've seen your post on the fishing alberta message borad. I know your bs bragger. Bragging about imaginer fish you caught saying you caught tons of whitefish out of pigion but never showing any kind of proof. I've seen so many people like you i can spot them right off the bat now. I stopped pointing them out to people but since you took a shot a me i thought i would just point that out.

Hey Happy, you must really like the taste of toe jam as time after time you continue to stick your foot into your mouth.

I'm really not interested in getting into a pi$$ing match with you and I would guess that most folks on this message board don't want to see it either, but I think you need to begin to realize that you're opinion is not the only opinion that counts. Perhaps you need to become more educated on issues before you voice your opinion becasue your accountablity on anything you say in my opinion is null. You might also want to drop the ego and maybe accept the fact that you do not know everything.

For the record I do not see myself as a bragger and I normally do not BS people looking for tips, suggestions, and or reports on how the fishing has been. But here is some proof just for you my friend……