A great point made in another forum about thieves

[Ken07AOVette]

(talking about a stolen race boat)
Let's think about this unemotionally for a moment.

Who stands to make money when things are stolen besides the thieves?
Car dealerships
ATV dealerships
RV dealerships
Autobody dealerships
Parts dealerships
Recyclers
Insurance Companies
Security companies
Banks
.....the list goes on and on.

How badly do politicians want to take money out of the pockets of big business? The only reason law enforcement makes ANY effort at all to arrest thieves is because...well...it is illegal after all. As told to me by a LEO..."There is NO profit in catching thieves!"

But the legal system doesn't want to keep them in prison because that costs $$ and it disrupts the profits of Big Business.

It's a big circle that just keeps goin' round and round and round......

I agree, also

the criminals need to have 'an accident' if and when we catch them. If they are willing to risk forfeiture of freedom by coming on our land and taking our possessions they may as well be prepared for the big sleep. I like a snipers nest and claymores, personally.

[obsessed1]

Hands caught in the cookie jar??? Short drop with even shorter rope is my suggestion. I'm sick of these dirt bags stealing what others have worked hard for. And most people's answer is that's what insurance is for...give your head a shake. Why should I even have to pay theft insurance. If your caught with my stolen property there shouldnt even need to be an " accident" it should be within my right to defend my property. If you don't think that my stuff is worth your life then keep your hands off my stuff and you will get to keep living.

[Newview01]

I must say Ken, it is nice to see that you have had a change of heart over time. It was not long ago when you would not condone defense of property.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I must say Ken, it is nice to see that you have had a change of heart over time. It was not long ago when you would not condone defense of property.

I have been eating turd bagels on here for years about my stance on shipping criminals to the Antartica, I have no feelings whatsoever for anyone that breaks the law other than 'hope they pay for their crimes'

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I have been eating turd bagels on here for years about my stance on shipping criminals to the Antartica, I have no feelings whatsoever for anyone that breaks the law othe rthan 'hope they pay for their crimes'

I was under the impression of the opposite.

I stand with you.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I have been eating turd bagels on here for years about my stance on shipping criminals to the Antartica, I have no feelings whatsoever for anyone that breaks the law other than 'hope they pay for their crimes'

Hahaha turd bagels

[CaberTosser]

I call BS on the economic model of that theory. If said items were not stolen then the money not needed towards their replacement would then go to something else that drives the economy. Such money does not materialize out of nowhere, it must be earned. If thefts were reduced then insurance premiums would be lower and that money would still be circulating in the economy. Some people might not have the money to replace goods stolen from them; perhaps the item is only worth their deductible or perhaps said item isn't insured. How then does that benefit them?

What would improve the economy is if thieves didn't exist and instead had productive jobs. What would help the economy is if recidivist parasites who habitually prey on others were no longer drawing oxygen because it sure doesn't drive the economy to have them in prison (sure it offers some corrections jobs, but that just costs the taxpayer and businesses who could both do better things with the money)

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I call BS on the economic model of that theory. If said items were not stolen then the money not needed towards their replacement would then go to something else that drives the economy. Such money does not materialize out of nowhere, it must be earned. If thefts were reduced then insurance premiums would be lower and that money would still be circulating in the economy. Some people might not have the money to replace goods stolen from them; perhaps the item is only worth their deductible or perhaps said item isn't insured. How then does that benefit them?

What would improve the economy is if thieves didn't exist and instead had productive jobs. What would help the economy is if recidivist parasites who habitually prey on others were no longer drawing oxygen because it sure doesn't drive the economy to have them in prison (sure it offers some corrections jobs, but that just costs the taxpayer and businesses who could both do better things with the money)

But, it was stolen. There is going to be money going somewhere.

I pay a lot of insurance yearly. Really a lot. If I have a boat, trailer, truck, kicker, gear, electronics, radar stolen I file a claim for ~$245,000.00. I win. They don't fight big claims too hard, especially with the proof they demanded for value prior to writing the insurance and taking my money.

Then Ford sells me a truck, Seaswirl a boat, Canadian tire, fishin hole, wholesale sports, Yamaha, Cabelas all get to sell me everything they sold me last time. They win. This has never happened to me. I just pay. The insurance company wins with me, so far knock on teak.

If I have a lawnmower stolen that is worth $1000 insurance hits me for $500 deductible, then the adjuster says the mower is only worth $650 so here is your $150, take it or leave it. Oh and by the way you are no longer claims free, so you lose that discount. Oh and because of the high rate of thefts in your area you insurance is going up. So obviously I do not claim, I am out $1000. So John Deer wins because I go back to them to buy another $400 riding mower for $1185 because 'the american dollar is kicking our butts, we had to adjust prices this year'.

SO John Deer and Insurance wins. Plus the crook wins.

The economic model is sound, you just have to contort your vision to see it lol.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

But, it was stolen. There is going to be money going somewhere.

I pay a lot of insurance yearly. Really a lot. If I have a boat, trailer, truck, kicker, gear, electronics, radar stolen I file a claim for ~$245,000.00. I win. They don't fight big claims too hard, especially with the proof they demanded for value prior to writing the insurance and taking my money.

Then Ford sells me a truck, Seaswirl a boat, Canadian tire, fishin hole, wholesale sports, Yamaha, Cabelas all get to sell me everything they sold me last time. They win. This has never happened to me. I just pay. The insurance company wins with me, so far knock on teak.

If I have a lawnmower stolen that is worth $1000 insurance hits me for $500 deductible, then the adjuster says the mower is only worth $650 so here is your $150, take it or leave it. Oh and by the way you are no longer claims free, so you lose that discount. Oh and because of the high rate of thefts in your area you insurance is going up. So obviously I do not claim, I am out $1000. So John Deer wins because I go back to them to buy another $400 riding mower for $1185 because 'the american dollar is kicking our butts, we had to adjust prices this year'.

SO John Deer and Insurance wins. Plus the crook wins.

The economic model is sound, you just have to contort your vision to see it lol.

Or not buy yourself such nice things to begin with and then you won't be affected much by crime.

If you have $250,000 worth of toys and it gets stolen you can't cry foul when you have to pay the cost to replace them.
Should have bought something less expensive and not as shiny,
To give temptation to the thief.

Or at least blame the criminal and not the dealerships, as it was not them that stole your items,

Or one step further,
It's no ones fault but your own, if y ou decide to have $250,000 worth of toys for someone to steal in the first place.

If I only have $70,000 worth of toys and the Jones's have double that and they get targeted and not me,
Because the dumb crooks know their stuff is worth more,
Maybe they should have been a little conservative in their purchasing.

Or

Why would a thief steal a Ford Ranger, when the F-350 parked beside it yields a bigger payday.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I call BS on the economic model of that theory. If said items were not stolen then the money not needed towards their replacement would then go to something else that drives the economy. Such money does not materialize out of nowhere, it must be earned. If thefts were reduced then insurance premiums would be lower and that money would still be circulating in the economy. Some people might not have the money to replace goods stolen from them; perhaps the item is only worth their deductible or perhaps said item isn't insured. How then does that benefit them?

What would improve the economy is if thieves didn't exist and instead had productive jobs. What would help the economy is if recidivist parasites who habitually prey on others were no longer drawing oxygen because it sure doesn't drive the economy to have them in prison (sure it offers some corrections jobs, but that just costs the taxpayer and businesses who could both do better things with the money)

I partly agree with you Caber, but if you think insurance rates would go down if thefts were reduced, you are very naive. Perhaps ins exec's and police officers would also take a pay cut? I doubt it.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

(


I agree, also

the criminals need to have 'an accident' if and when we catch them. If they are willing to risk forfeiture of freedom by coming on our land and taking our possessions they may as well be prepared for the big sleep. I like a snipers nest and claymores, personally.

and you won't do this either.

because you are too decent of a man to actually put plan into motion.

you want to deprive your family while you sit in a jail cell, and the thief walks ?

I doubt it.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

and you won't do this either.

because you are too decent of a man to actually put plan into motion.

you want to deprive your family while you sit in a jail cell, and the thief walks ?

I doubt it.

Thank you, I appreciate that,
but
Like you I am a man, and I think I can likely handle myself fairly well, but if someone showed intent to damage or harm my family, I honestly do not know if I could stop myself.
Problem being, knowing full well that our 'progressive victims services ombudsman' aka Canadian Courts really do whatever they can to look after the wounded criminal, it would make more sense to turn them into goo.
(my old friend in the RCMP told me years ago, 2 to the heart 1 to the head, consequences later)
It of course depends on a whole lot of circumstances; is it a man a boy or a child breaking in, is it a female, are they packing a gun baseball bat or a knife, are they taking a stance that makes me feel there may have been some training in the past, are they high or intoxicated, are they alone, is there 1 or 3 hiding with weapons, can I get to my firearms or do I use what is readily available, and all within a second or 2 tops?
Once I have figured out it is not my son or daughter or grandson or brother in law any family or friend, if the face in front of me looks ready for a fight or is looking to flee, I will act accordingly. If they are looking for help I hope I spot it in time.
In the meeting with our friends from the RCMP they said 'you do what you have to, but be assured WE WILL FIGHT FOR YOU, if you do not have to fight, do not fight if you can help it. That is our job'. I watched this man, 40 years old, Officer for nearly half that, hos body language told me he has had some pretty serious training, and like he said, 'anyone that messes with him is really gonna regret it.'
I prefer not to E-town, but like most here, I would not back down at all when cornered if I feel I have a better chance of surviving by taking action.
Happily I live in a location where there is very very very very very little of this garbage happening, on purpose.

[CorahsDad]

The problem is that you (citizens) lack power. The government took it all away. You gave it all away, thinking the government would protect you. Now you're finding out that the government doesn't really care about protecting you, now that they've got you powerless.

The solution is for you to take back power. What does this look like? Building new communities and social groups based on values and loyalty, which will enforce rules that the government won't and operate in defiance of the government.

Is Alberta ready for this? Judging based on how the III% have been ridiculed, how in every thread on AO I see outdoorsmen eager to rat each other out to the government, and how the majority on here still want to look to the government for their protection, I am skeptical.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

and you won't do this either.

because you are too decent of a man to actually put plan into motion.

you want to deprive your family while you sit in a jail cell, and the thief walks ?

I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Thank you, I appreciate that,
but
Like you I am a man, and I think I can likely handle myself fairly well, but if someone showed intent to damage or harm my family, I honestly do not know if I could stop myself.
Problem being, knowing full well that our 'progressive victims services ombudsman' aka Canadian Courts really do whatever they can to look after the wounded criminal, it would make more sense to turn them into goo.
(my old friend in the RCMP told me years ago, 2 to the heart 1 to the head, consequences later)
It of course depends on a whole lot of circumstances; is it a man a boy or a child breaking in, is it a female, are they packing a gun baseball bat or a knife, are they taking a stance that makes me feel there may have been some training in the past, are they high or intoxicated, are they alone, is there 1 or 3 hiding with weapons, can I get to my firearms or do I use what is readily available, and all within a second or 2 tops?
Once I have figured out it is not my son or daughter or grandson or brother in law any family or friend, if the face in front of me looks ready for a fight or is looking to flee, I will act accordingly. If they are looking for help I hope I spot it in time.
In the meeting with our friends from the RCMP they said 'you do what you have to, but be assured WE WILL FIGHT FOR YOU, if you do not have to fight, do not fight if you can help it. That is our job'. I watched this man, 40 years old, Officer for nearly half that, hos body language told me he has had some pretty serious training, and like he said, 'anyone that messes with him is really gonna regret it.'
I prefer not to E-town, but like most here, I would not back down at all when cornered if I feel I have a better chance of surviving by taking action.
Happily I live in a location where there is very very very very very little of this garbage happening, on purpose.

I have always seem common sense in your posts.



Thank you.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by CorahsDad

The problem is that you (citizens) lack power. The government took it all away. You gave it all away, thinking the government would protect you. Now you're finding out that the government doesn't really care about protecting you, now that they've got you powerless.
The solution is for you to take back power. What does this look like? Building new communities and social groups based on values and loyalty, which will enforce rules that the government won't and operate in defiance of the government.
Is Alberta ready for this? Judging based on how the III% have been ridiculed, how in every thread on AO I see outdoorsmen eager to rat each other out to the government, and how the majority on here still want to look to the government for their protection, I am skeptical.

Are you so Liberal that you think criminal activity should go unhindered unpunished and freely? Are you one of the 'mind yer own gawddamn bizness' people?
Your comment is confusing.
Our Country is being ruined right now by Liberals and their way of thinking.

[CorahsDad]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Are you so Liberal that you think criminal activity should go unhindered unpunished and freely? Are you one of the 'mind yer own gawddamn bizness' people?
Your comment is confusing.
Our Country is being ruined right now by Liberals and their way of thinking.

It's a necessary trade off. Either you have a smaller government with less rules and less rule of law, or you have a larger government with less freedoms. You can't have your cake (freedoms) and eat it too (government protection). For my part, I would much prefer far less rules. I think I'd enjoy the wild west.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by CorahsDad

It's a necessary trade off. Either you have a smaller government with less rules and less rule of law, or you have a larger government with less freedoms. You can't have your cake (freedoms) and eat it too (government protection). For my part, I would much prefer far less rules. I think I'd enjoy the wild west.

I thought that too until I watched A millon ways to die in the West

lol

not so much now, Seth Mcfarlane made some good points in that incredibly stupid mildly entertaining movie

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

(talking about a stolen race boat)
Let's think about this unemotionally for a moment.

Who stands to make money when things are stolen besides the thieves?
Car dealerships
ATV dealerships
RV dealerships
Autobody dealerships
Parts dealerships
Recyclers
Insurance Companies
Security companies
Banks
.....the list goes on and on.

How badly do politicians want to take money out of the pockets of big business? The only reason law enforcement makes ANY effort at all to arrest thieves is because...well...it is illegal after all. As told to me by a LEO..."There is NO profit in catching thieves!"

But the legal system doesn't want to keep them in prison because that costs $$ and it disrupts the profits of Big Business.

It's a big circle that just keeps goin' round and round and round......

I agree, also

the criminals need to have 'an accident' if and when we catch them. If they are willing to risk forfeiture of freedom by coming on our land and taking our possessions they may as well be prepared for the big sleep. I like a snipers nest and claymores, personally.

How exactly does an insurance company make more money?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

How exactly does an insurance company make more money?

I pay.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible so I don't claim
I continue to pay and have lost a grand.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible I take half or quarter value payout my rates go up.
How do they not make money?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I pay.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible so I don't claim
I continue to pay and have lost a grand.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible I take half or quarter value payout my rates go up.
How do they not make money?

That is what I mean. They make money charging you less with less risk. They make about the same money charging you more with higher risk. Higher risk means more payouts...comes out of bottom line.

I am thinking broadly across the portfolio...not one individual such as yourself.

However...theft sucks. I like that anti theft device in total recall. Need that on all cars.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I pay.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible so I don't claim
I continue to pay and have lost a grand.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible I take half or quarter value payout my rates go up.
How do they not make money?

You do know that it's a process right? You are allowed to negotiate the payout if you feel (and can prove) the insurance company is under valuing your property.

I have had great experiences with insurance companies, all of my claims have been settled fairly, with only minor increases in premiums.

It's also why, if you have $1000 deductible, you shouldn't make a claim for a $1500 item. Common sense.

[Ken07AOVette]

I am fully aware of that but in the end they are the ones that sign the cheque.
My deductible is $500. Except for once they have been fair with me as well.
I always tell people to remember they are the ones that hired and pay the Broker, remind them of that. It is the brokers duty and responsibility to take care of you.
I have collected for and against Insurance brokers. Sometimes in court, sometimes with a Lawyer, more often without.
I know more about them than the average Joe because of my job, again for and against.
The biggest thing is getting a broker you can trust and have faith in. Make them work for you and read the fine print before you sign.

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

You do know that it's a process right? You are allowed to negotiate the payout if you feel (and can prove) the insurance company is under valuing your property.

I have had great experiences with insurance companies, all of my claims have been settled fairly, with only minor increases in premiums.

It's also why, if you have $1000 deductible, you shouldn't make a claim for a $1500 item. Common sense.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I am fully aware of that but in the end they are the ones that sign the cheque.
My deductible is $500. Except for once they have been fair with me as well.
I always tell people to remember they are the ones that hired and pay the Broker, remind them of that. It is the brokers duty and responsibility to take care of you.
I have collected for and against Insurance brokers. Sometimes in court, sometimes with a Lawyer, more often without.
I know more about them than the average Joe because of my job, again for and against.
The biggest thing is getting a broker you can trust and have faith in. Make them work for you and read the fine print before you sign.

Yup but your still paying through the roof as claims go up due to no immediate harsh consequences to the plug criminal...wonder who they use for insurance?

Us...the dummies who feed the vicious circle of stupidity...

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I pay.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible so I don't claim
I continue to pay and have lost a grand.
I claim small they reduce value and charge deductible I take half or quarter value payout my rates go up.
How do they not make money?

They make money by collecting a insurance fee yearly from all of us, you claim, then they collect next year as your premiums go up, they make money or that individual advising you on insurance packages works for free...and the guy beside him, and him...man these companies are a generous group insuring us for free of charge...

[patriot1]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

(talking about a stolen race boat)
[B][I]

the criminals need to have 'an accident' if and when we catch them. If they are willing to risk forfeiture of freedom by coming on our land and taking our possessions they may as well be prepared for the big sleep. I like a snipers nest and claymores, personally.

I love this online hard talk, like I agree with you and all but seriously this isn't the US.

[coolpete1]

we need way less police doing radar and more judges give real consequenses, but if your a thief its doubtful your advertising where your gonna do your next theft so if you go missing who's gonna know where to look?

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by coolpete1

we need way less police doing radar and more judges give real consequenses, but if your a thief its doubtful your advertising where your gonna do your next theft so if you go missing who's gonna know where to look?

You're wrong there
They brag about their scores worse than fraternity brothers
You don't think someone knows

[Stinky Buffalo]

Haha!

[does it ALL outdoors]

On a side note people need to start protecting said toys a lot better. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard of a $80K truck pulling a $30K trailer with two $25K sleds in it getting stolen and someone asking how they protected it to be told "I locked the doors" or "I parked it under a light" Denver boots, aftermarket alarms with starter kill, GPS tracking are a few simple and relatively cheap things you can do to help insure your not a victim, but sadly most people never even consider any form of protection making themselves sitting ducks and victims in wait. We already know the law has little interest in protecting your stuff, it's up to you and only you

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by does it ALL outdoors

On a side note people need to start protecting said toys a lot better. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard of a $80K truck pulling a $30K trailer with two $25K sleds in it getting stolen and someone asking how they protected it to be told "I locked the doors" or "I parked it under a light" Denver boots, aftermarket alarms with starter kill, GPS tracking are a few simple and relatively cheap things you can do to help insure your not a victim, but sadly most people never even consider any form of protection making themselves sitting ducks and victims in wait. We already know the law has little interest in protecting your stuff, it's up to you and only you

The real issue is a legal system that doesn't punish thieves, and that won't let us use force to protect our property. A good beat down does more to dissuade thieves than a slap on the wrist from the legal system.