Chocolate Lab Kennel...If you had the choice

[tikkataker]

Hey All,

So, I have narrowed it down to 2 kennels to get a chocolate lab puppy from. Benefits to both but I thought id check to see if any of you have high recommendations for either Antler Meadow Labs in Sherwood Park, AB or Trail Runners in Sask.

As far as support goes Trail Runners seems awesome and highly spoke of just that they are quite the distance from Edmonton.

Looking for a waterfowl dog, as well as companion dog. We do lots of camping and hiking etc as well as waterfowl when the season comes!

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[nast70]

Colors are a roll of the dice. we wanted a chocolate as well, and waited 18 months, before finally giving up on color and went for personality and temperament.

[sns2]

I have personally seen and talked to owners of a young Antler Meadow dog at two hunt tests this year. That dog has an engine that won't quit. The owner has a young family, has never trained a retriever and is doing well. They absolutely love that dog. I was impressed.

Further, maybe more importantly, Pixel Shooter has extensive knowledge of Antler Meadows and their breeding program as he has frequently trained with them. IIRC, he said if he were giving advice to someone who wanted a chocolate it would be to go to Antler Meadows.

Send him a PM. He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to retrievers. And a great guy to boot.

[DiabeticKripple]

I got my boy from Prairiestorm.

He’s been nothing but pure joy. He’s only 14 weeks old now but all he wants to do is play fetch with the ball. He is also trailing scents left from grouse wings I’ve trailed in the house and in the yard.

[tikkataker]

Thank you for the replies and info!

[frel]

Another vote to check out Prairiestorm in Saskatoon if you haven't already. Got my chocolate pup from there and she's fantastic. At a year old she's already pretty impressive... great nose and marking, takes off like a drag car and hits the water like a freight train, and just loves everyone and everything.
Daniella matched me with just the right pup for what I wanted out of a dog.

Specifically look into breedings of a chocolate sire named Gator, or of pups from him. His puppies are really well regarded, and he's a gorgeous dog.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

I got my boy from Prairiestorm.

He’s been nothing but pure joy. He’s only 14 weeks old now but all he wants to do is play fetch with the ball. He is also trailing scents left from grouse wings I’ve trailed in the house and in the yard.

I love that name... and I already love that dog from just one photo!

[sns2]

Originally Posted by tikkataker

Thank you for the replies and info!

So what did you decide?

[TBoe]

We have a female chocolate from antler meadows, first litter for Remi and Nitro, they just had a second litter together. Hope has a non stop drive for hunting and retrieving, she did a 6 week obedience with Monty at Ringneck Kennels in Strathmore but besides that it has just been me and my wife working with her. Send a PM if you want more information...


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[tatonka2]

Well, if I were looking for a lab I'd be looking for a black one... Like they say, a good dog can't be a bad color... Ask professional trainers, Hunt Test Judges, etc. what their opinion is of Chocolates... Ya, I know...I've ruffled some feathers here, but getting a chocolate is a crap shoot if you really want the best chance of getting an outstanding pup. OK...I have my flak jacket on now.

[Jadham]

One of my dogs is from Trailrunners. No complaints and will be ordering another.

Some of their lines are advertised as “off and on” and it is really true. My dog has free run of the house while I work and has never trashed anything. Yet the next day he will put on 20+ km hiking/pheasant hunting/skijoring etc. My brother has a chocolate from another breeder and has had several problems because she can’t turn off.

[tikkataker]

Thanks to all who gave input. I have decided to go with Trail Runners for this up coming spring time.

Now, as far as training guides/ time lines and such....that's my next project.

Super excited!

[frel]

Originally Posted by tatonka2

Well, if I were looking for a lab I'd be looking for a black one... Like they say, a good dog can't be a bad color... Ask professional trainers, Hunt Test Judges, etc. what their opinion is of Chocolates... Ya, I know...I've ruffled some feathers here, but getting a chocolate is a crap shoot if you really want the best chance of getting an outstanding pup. OK...I have my flak jacket on now.

Don't disagree, but kind of a self-reinforcing stereotype isn't it? If serious field trialers are picking black dogs to work with due to reputation, there's going to be more of them, and they're going to have the titles to become in demand for breeding.... and on and on it goes.

Also true that if there's a demand for chocolates driven by looks over performance, the overall stock is probably not as strong.

From what I've read of the genetics, coat color has no bearing on anything else, so I don't think a chocolate from a good breeding has any less potential than a black. I could be wrong though.

[wwbirds]

Excellent chocolate lines and excellent black lines will both produce excellent pups but,..... and it is a big but!
Chocolates were destroyed by lab breeders for about 50 years and it wasn't until around the 1940's that someone decided they would be a great color to keep. As such they were bred primarily in many cases (not all) for color so there are far fewer good chocolates out there compared to blacks with field ability. Many of the best chocolate breedings are actually from black parents if you are looking for a hunting dog. So if 9 out of 10 chocs are bred for color and 7 out of 10 blacks are bred for field performance you have a very high chance of not getting a field dog if you look for a chocolate. If you look for a lab with field and hunting qualities and you find one that just happens to be a choc you got lucky. If you look for only a brown lab you will get exactly a brown lab.
In 20 odd years of training I have been fortunate to have 2 chocs that I felt could equal the many blacks I have trained (or yellow for that matter). About 6 or so of those chocolates were noticeably lacking the drive and trainability required of a field dog whether you were looking for junior hunt test or even just a hunting dog. Somewhat skewed results but I have probably had much better field dogs from yellows than chocolates to the point the gene pool on yellows almost seems to be as good as blacks.

[Superdeuce]

Originally Posted by frel

Another vote to check out Prairiestorm in Saskatoon if you haven't already. Got my chocolate pup from there and she's fantastic. At a year old she's already pretty impressive... great nose and marking, takes off like a drag car and hits the water like a freight train, and just loves everyone and everything.
Daniella matched me with just the right pup for what I wanted out of a dog.

Specifically look into breedings of a chocolate sire named Gator, or of pups from him. His puppies are really well regarded, and he's a gorgeous dog.

Here's your girl's older brother....

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by frel

Another vote to check out Prairiestorm in Saskatoon if you haven't already. Got my chocolate pup from there and she's fantastic. At a year old she's already pretty impressive... great nose and marking, takes off like a drag car and hits the water like a freight train, and just loves everyone and everything.
Daniella matched me with just the right pup for what I wanted out of a dog.

Specifically look into breedings of a chocolate sire named Gator, or of pups from him. His puppies are really well regarded, and he's a gorgeous dog.

My pup is Gators son. His mom is Maple.

He has a brother that lives in Blackfalds as well, we set up play dates so they can see each other.

[Old Dirty Grandpa]

Just my opinion, not that it matters , and of coarse there are exceptions to the rule. I found chocolates to be too energetic, a little much if kids are involved, blacks tend to be too yappy, now yellows, all around great dogs, with children, other pets, temperament, intelligence, and trainability, Mine wasn't the best water dog, but I could have been to blame for that. I sure miss that girl, RIP Maggy May.

[freeride]

Originally Posted by frel

Another vote to check out Prairiestorm in Saskatoon if you haven't already. Got my chocolate pup from there and she's fantastic. At a year old she's already pretty impressive... great nose and marking, takes off like a drag car and hits the water like a freight train, and just loves everyone and everything.
Daniella matched me with just the right pup for what I wanted out of a dog.

Specifically look into breedings of a chocolate sire named Gator, or of pups from him. His puppies are really well regarded, and he's a gorgeous dog.

Might have a female from the same litter...
This has been my first dog for training, and she is doing great (in my opinion though). Loves people, loves the water, and loves all kids. She is a smaller female, at around 55 lbs, which is exactly what we wanted.
I can't get enough of seeing her eyes dialate when you say you want to go hunting, or you want to find antlers? I just have to make sure I am all packed and ready to go, otherwise its her grunting and pacing until we go.

[Superdeuce]

Originally Posted by freeride

Might have a female from the same litter...
This has been my first dog for training, and she is doing great (in my opinion though). Loves people, loves the water, and loves all kids. She is a smaller female, at around 55 lbs, which is exactly what we wanted.
I can't get enough of seeing her eyes dialate when you say you want to go hunting, or you want to find antlers? I just have to make sure I am all packed and ready to go, otherwise its her grunting and pacing until we go.

Who's the dam?

[freeride]

Gator and vortex. Born in Nov 2017

[freeride]

Originally Posted by freeride

Gator and vortex. Born in Nov 2017

LOL whoops, Hickory and Vortex... I don't think the other way would work very good. Too tired today.

[Superdeuce]

Originally Posted by tatonka2

Well, if I were looking for a lab I'd be looking for a black one... Like they say, a good dog can't be a bad color....

Let's see some more pics guys... My Prairiestorm dog is Gator x River 2016 so curious to see other Gator offspring... choco, black, or yellow.

Color of course does not dictate anything between pups within the same litter other than...their color. Black is the dominant gene so their is way more of them, therefor more titled blacks and selection of quality breedings and on it goes...but there are some good chocolates just harder to find quality breedings, which will often involve black dogs who are chocolate factored on one or both sides.

Gator is a brother to Ammo who aside from being a Canadian National Am Champion, also holds the American record for most derby points in history (dogs under 2yrs) as well as the all time single season All Age Point total record.... and she was one of them no good for nothing chocolates

https://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=12594

[happy honker]

We have a great dog out of Wagging Tails from just north of Edmonton.
Just a great family dog. Sometimes we forget he's in the house and he gets sat on or stepped on lol.
When it's hunting season, he's relentless and tireless.
Even at 5 years old, he still picks up new stuff all the time. Just taught him to take his dish downstairs when it's empty and leave it by the food bag. (I was bored last month I guess)

[tatonka2]

Originally Posted by Superdeuce

Let's see some more pics guys... My Prairiestorm dog is Gator x River 2016 so curious to see other Gator offspring... choco, black, or yellow.

Color of course does not dictate anything between pups within the same litter other than...their color. Black is the dominant gene so their is way more of them, therefor more titled blacks and selection of quality breedings and on it goes...but there are some good chocolates just harder to find quality breedings, which will often involve black dogs who are chocolate factored on one or both sides.

Gator is a brother to Ammo who aside from being a Canadian National Am Champion, also holds the American record for most derby points in history (dogs under 2yrs) as well as the all time single season All Age Point total record.... and she was one of them no good for nothing chocolates

https://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=12594

I've never owned a Lab, but I know some trainers and field trial/hunt test judges who do know Labs quite well. So, what I know comes from them. I bought some pigeons for training a while back from a long time Field trial/hunt test judge. He had an old Lab there when I picked up the birds and we got to talking about Labs in general. He said that years ago if there was a yellow or chocolate pup in a litter many of the old time breeders would knock them in the head. For reasons unknown, they felt they were inferior. That, of course, has fortunately changed. What he did tell me was that he'd probably judged hundreds of Labs over the years and that he could count on one hand the number of chocolates that could hold their own against the Blacks and Yellows. He said he really sees no difference between the blacks and yellows these days as far as field ability, intelligence, etc... He said over the past several years more and more chocolates are showing up at the hunt tests and most leave a lot to be desired.... Just saying...

One thing I have noticed with friends and families who have labs is that the Yellows shed a ton compared to the Blacks...Can't speak for the chocolates.

[TROLLER]

Originally Posted by tatonka2

Well, if I were looking for a lab I'd be looking for a black one... Like they say, a good dog can't be a bad color... Ask professional trainers, Hunt Test Judges, etc. what their opinion is of Chocolates... Ya, I know...I've ruffled some feathers here, but getting a chocolate is a crap shoot if you really want the best chance of getting an outstanding pup. OK...I have my flak jacket on now.

I hate to say it but I have to agree. All the years that I guided waterfowl hunters, the dogs that were the I will say least trained seemed to be chocolat, beautiful labs but not quite the same temperament as blacks or yellow. As to barking blacks, I have had 2 one made it 11yrs and my last 13,between the two of them I heard a grand total of maybe 10 barks. Once while camping and some intruders were around, the other times were always at either skunk or porcupine, both had been introduced to those critters.