wasting fish?

[Frans]

Yesterday I took the kids for a swim at the Ghost Reservoir (cold!). A fellar was fishing, with a three hook set-up, two baited with with worms and one with a (dead) bait fish.

Just before we leave he actually catches one. He takes a while to get off his seat to start dealing with the fish, of which he kept the head out off the water. The fish had taken the bait fish and swallowed it good. We put our stuff in the truck, I see the guy is struggling with the fish, there is blood all over. Just as we're about to drive off when my sun tells me the guy threw the dead fish back into the water.

So I go and take a look, and start a brief chat... "I put him back" was his comment. The obviously dead fish was floating 30 feet out, belly up.

With hunting there are rules against wasting the meat. How about with fishing? Are you obliged to keep fish that you obviously killed? Or is it OK to just throw them away? I was pretty disgusted with the guy's lack of skills to deal with a deeply-hooked fish and his attitude towards his catch.

Frans

[SouthAltaHunter]

Thats sucks, but it happens alot. The worst is watching guys fish for pike at some of the southern resevoirs (namely Rattlesnake) at the spillway. They bottom fish with big pike rigs, treble hooks and catch a pike. Then they reel it it, pull it up on the gravel or rocks 10 feet, walk back to there truck and grab a tape measure only to find out that the fish is under the 63cm mark, then proceed to do surgery to remove the hooks. Well this can turn into a 5 minute eposode, before the fish is released. Bleeding out of the gills ect. Not that I am by any means a biologist, but if some of these guys were allowed to keep a few pike under 63cm maybe the fishing would be better over time, as they would not have to catch so many fish to get there limit. Im sure that alot of guys in the south still are mainly catch & keep fishermen, and on Rattlesnake they might have to catch 30 pike to get there limit of 3. Im not trying to sound like a whiner catch & release fisherman, as I like to eat fish to, but man it is pretty sick to see some people's fish ethics somedays.

[beermilk]

I cant be sure but as far as i know that guy would get in a whole lot more trouble if he kept a fish under the limit. Is it ethical to throw back a fish that is bleeding and is going to die. no. but it is the law that you cannot keep any fish under the size limit. so what do you do. keep the fish and get a fine or throw it back?

[Grizzled]

Guy's like that should be fined..not much "surgery" required with barbless hooks...and when real deep ..cut the line..save the fish.

[Sbrooks]

If it is a Catch and Release stream and the fish is hooked bad and is going to probably die, you still HAVE to put him back.

Why??? Because any idiot could say "well I hooked him badly so I kept him"

Rules are Rules....

[BigA]

Originally Posted by Sbrooks

If it is a Catch and Release stream and the fish is hooked bad and is going to probably die, you still HAVE to put him back.

Why??? Because any idiot could say "well I hooked him badly so I kept him"

Rules are Rules....

The same applies to species that have 0 catch limits (Bulls, Sturgeon, Walleyes in some spots). If you hook into a bull trout and it perish's in the process of releasing it from the hooks, it must be put back. Even if it will not survive.

[moosehunter3-0]

Originally Posted by Grizzled

Guy's like that should be fined..not much "surgery" required with barbless hooks...and when real deep ..cut the line..save the fish.

Wouldnt a fish die if it swallowed a hook and you just cut the line? I dont believe the theory that fish can just dissolve hooks in a few days. Once I caught a 22" rainbow that had a really old/rusted streamer in its mouth and pike are always caught with old hooks in their beaks..

[redneck posse]

i don't know i think i would rather keep the fish and hope you get a F&W officer thats not to unresonable than put it back to die any way. why waste the meat by throwing it back.

[BigIrv]

I called the Fish and Wildlife office this spring to ask a few questions regarding's regulations for fishing. One of my questions was if I catch a fish and it is very badly hurt and/or bleeding from the hook or fight do I still throw them back? The answer was yes. The only other thing he said was if the hook is embedded in the gills very badly to just cut off the hook and let
the fish go as is.

On that note, I pulled a jack from Coal on sunday and it had an old treble hook and a leader still in its mouth. Good and rust, looked like the mouth was getting a bit infected too. Anyway the old hook (and mine) came out quite easliy and he swam away without any extra metal this time.

[Marlin07]

Rules are rules I guess, but in the same breath why fish with treble hooks, bait and what not when there is a min. size? if there are requirements for min safety equipment in boats and you gotta wear a seat belt on the drive to the lake, than way don't you have to have the bare minimum equipment on hand to release a fish properly? Not that i would like to see the man telling me what i require in my tackle box but let's use the resource and not waste it...

[pecker]

Originally Posted by redneck posse

i don't know i think i would rather keep the fish and hope you get a F&W officer thats not to unresonable than put it back to die any way. why waste the meat by throwing it back.

a couple weeks ago my son in law caught a 61 cm. pike at clear lake. he was using a rapela with 2 treble hooks , my daughter helped him net it. well you know what a thrashing pike with 2 trebles in him can do to a fine mesh nylon net .we quickly measured him and knew we had to get him back in soon as possible. it took a while to get him out of that mess. i held him in the water by the tail for a couple minutes before he responded and SLOWLY swam away. a few minutes later he was belly up.dambed if you do-- dambed if you don't. i hope at least a pelican got him.

[dodger]

I really hate treble hooks!!! I have cut off one of the hooks on all of my lures leaving two hooks, and when my buddy is fishing with me and using his lures with the treble hook intact I still catch the same amount as him. Even my Rapalas with the dual hooks are an easy release for the Pike and I rarely even have to bring the fish into the boat. 75% of the fish hooked can be released while there in the water.
My $0.02 worth.
Dodger.

[pecker]

Originally Posted by dodger

I really hate treble hooks!!! I have cut off one of the hooks on all of my lures leaving two hooks, and when my buddy is fishing with me and using his lures with the treble hook intact I still catch the same amount as him. Even my Rapalas with the dual hooks are an easy release for the Pike and I rarely even have to bring the fish into the boat. 75% of the fish hooked can be released while there in the water.
My $0.02 worth.
Dodger.

leaving 2 trebles or 2 hooks

[dodger]

All of my treble hooks have one hook cut off leaving the remaining two. It makes for an easy easy release.
Dodger.

[pecker]

Originally Posted by dodger

All of my treble hooks have one hook cut off leaving the remaining two. It makes for an easy easy release.
Dodger.

thanks for clarifying that dodger , makes sense i'll have to try that . maybe even one might be an option . i sure like the rapalas & rattlin' raps . thanks again.

[Grizzly Adams]

I often wonder how many fish actually survive "catch and release " fishing. The idea seems to be that you should at least have a chance to catch a fish, any fish. Seeems terribly wasteful to me and only in fishing do you have the option of throwing back any quarry, that doesn't meet the legal criteria. Maybe we should be looking at some other means to control catches.
Grizz

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by Frans

Yesterday I took the kids for a swim at the Ghost Reservoir (cold!). A fellar was fishing, with a three hook set-up, two baited with with worms and one with a (dead) bait fish.

Just before we leave he actually catches one. He takes a while to get off his seat to start dealing with the fish, of which he kept the head out off the water. The fish had taken the bait fish and swallowed it good. We put our stuff in the truck, I see the guy is struggling with the fish, there is blood all over. Just as we're about to drive off when my sun tells me the guy threw the dead fish back into the water.

So I go and take a look, and start a brief chat... "I put him back" was his comment. The obviously dead fish was floating 30 feet out, belly up.

With hunting there are rules against wasting the meat. How about with fishing? Are you obliged to keep fish that you obviously killed? Or is it OK to just throw them away? I was pretty disgusted with the guy's lack of skills to deal with a deeply-hooked fish and his attitude towards his catch.

Frans

Its unfortunate , this crap happens all the time , people going out and not having the proper know how or equipment to remove that deeply lodged hook or just simply cut the line as close to the hook and release the fish . But if the fish is say under size or wrong species to be caught , you still have to toss it back even thought the chance its going to die is very high. But between larger fish and the birds they make quick work of it , that's the way it works , Its sad but you do your best and not preforming a quadruple bypass operation here .

[Jamie Black R/T]

Originally Posted by pecker

well you know what a thrashing pike with 2 trebles in him can do to a fine mesh nylon net

been there....done that

black rubber mesh is your friend...they should'nt even sell the nylon crap anymore

[Dr. Fish]

Can you imagine how many fish would be hooked in the gills if that meant you could retain them, man I already know people that claim every large fish they catch is badly hooked because they refuse to let the large ones go.

The terrible reality of it is that alot of people just dont have the skills and tools that is takes to properly catch and realease fish. Can you imagine trying to deal with deeply hooked pike with no mouth spreaders!

To properly handle and release fish a person should have a rubber mesh net, fish handling gloves (I think made by normark), decent needle nose pliers, mouth spreaders, hook de-gorger, and if after large prey possibly a cradle.

Its sad but poor catch and realease happens everywere from the old guy sitting on shore to the punk that thinks the hammer handle pike is a football.
I think this is one issue that will get better with time but is also unavoidable with current regulations.

[fishman]

I guess it is one small step at a time.........first teach them catch and release......then teach them how to release them...........don't you think they should go hand and hand but nooooooooo it is always one step at a time we are heading in the right direction, just at a slow pace.


I lve in central alberta or i guess the gateway to the north....i have to deal with fish pigs....keep everything they catch and go over your limit........what are rules.............keep bull trout........fish with live bait..........ohh ya dolberg lake i am a shore fisherman they say and this is my dock u boater get the hell off of it and ohhhhhhhhh yaaaaa i own the first 150 feet of the water in front of me so don't dare driving your boat in front of it................IGNORANT STUPID PEOPLE SHOULD BE SHOT WITH A BALL OF **** THE HUNG FOR STINKING..................i am fortuant that i have enough bodies of water i can get away from the stupid people.


I have report so many people at swan lake and to see nothing happen erks me.........one guy made 5 trips home with his limit.........i had a guy get mad at me for releasing about a 6# fish in front of him.....he said to me that was rude you could have gave me the fish...........my answer was i caught the fish i will do what ever i want with it and putting it back was my way.........not like you fish mongers who kill everything and have no idea what u r doing to the balance of nature as long as thier is enough for you secrew everybody else.....................man he was choked i finally had to tell him to f--k off and grow up.........and while we are at it when i see older people who figure the law doesn't pretain to them.......i fought in the war for this country i can do whatever i want...............if this was so they would see the big picture and think about others and not just about themselfs...........theres my rant........lol

[Waxy]

It's a sad reality that common sense and doing what's right is often punished more harshly than not having any common sense and doing wrong. Keep that fish because you don't want to waste the meat, and you'll face a large fine. It's a no win situation, and I don't think the guys at SRD are any happier about it than you or I. Unfortunately, a zero tolerance policy is the only way they can enforce the rules.

There's a recurring theme in this thread - TREBLE HOOKS. To my mind, they should be illegal, the same way barbs are illegal, on any waters where size limits or catch and release only designations are in place. It is next to impossible to effectively release a fish caught using treble hooks. I replace treble hooks with single hooks on all my spoons and crankbaits. I connect on a few less bites, but I'm also able to quickly and easily release the fish.

I think it comes down to educating anglers, and everyone making a conscious effort to fish in the least harmful way they can.

Waxy

[winged1]

Now you've got me all feeling kind of ******ed. I honestly thought that trebles where outlawed and have replaced all of mine with barbless singles. Must have been my trip to BC that got that into my mind.

Anyway, I haven't reduced the satisfaction on any fishing outing.

Cool, re tard ed is a banned word.

[Tredeb]

Originally Posted by fishman

Snip... .ohh ya dolberg lake i am a shore fisherman they say and this is my dock u boater get the hell off of it and ohhhhhhhhh yaaaaa i own the first 150 feet of the water in front of me so don't dare driving your boat in front of it ... snip

I inquired about the rights of land owners once and I was told that they only own the land up to the high water mark or the pemanent vegetation. So essentially, if you can walk in the water or on the beach to get there, you can fish right in front of their cabin and tell them to pound sand (that is an awful pun but I couldn't resist).

Back on topic, kind of, What does everyone think of the reversed regs. in Saskatchewan. What if we could keep 2 or 3 walleye only one being over 50cm. That would reduce the waste.

It seems to me that Alberta regs allow the spawners to be harvested while the Sask regs would protect the spawners more but may limit the fish that become spawners. Maybe the regs are right in each province when you look at the fishing pressure that some of the Alberta lakes are under as compared to Sask Lakes. I would venture to say that there are lakes in Alberta that see more traffic and pressure on a long weekend than some similar sized lakes in Sask see in a year. Maybe that is why we have different regs.

It would be interesting to read some studies on either approach.

Does anyone have information as to the amount of spawners it takes to maintain a population. Also, I seem to recall a thread commenting on stunted perch in Cow lake due to population density.

[pecker]

Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T

been there....done that

black rubber mesh is your friend...they should'nt even sell the nylon crap anymore

it's on my shopping list . thanks .

[Tako]

Reason number one that "Pickerel rigs" (aka Ni**er fishing) should be made illegal.

[packhuntr]

Tako, hey so i suppose you also think slip bobber set ups should be banned. How about jigs tipped with any type of bait??? There are a thousand presentations out there that can utilize bait, how could any of this possibly be an equipment related issue. Come on man. The issues lie with the people using the resources without first getting the knowledge needed to assure the safety and future of it.

All anglers that buy licences should have to provide proof of the fishing education program in Alberta. Oh, and the program should be made much more intensive than it currently is (if it even still exists??).

One more thing, fish scales(weight devises) should ALL be banned!! They have no place in tackle boxes..... Use a tape measure, better yet, build a quality bump board. Spread the word, scales have no place in fishing today.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Tako, hey so i suppose you also think slip bobber set ups should be banned. How about jigs tipped with any type of bait??? There are a thousand presentations out there that can utilize bait, how could any of this possibly be an equipment related issue. Come on man. The issues lie with the people using the resources without first getting the knowledge needed to assure the safety and future of it.

I'm not a big fan of pickeral rigs either, but I gotta agree with packhuntr.

Some presentations are definitely less C&R friendly than others, but ultimately, it's the angler that determines the success of the release. I don't like the idea of the slippery slope that banning certain techniques represents - next thing you know, all C&R will be illegal like in some European countries.

One more thing, fish scales(weight devises) should ALL be banned!! They have no place in tackle boxes..... Use a tape measure, better yet, build a quality bump board. Spread the word, scales have no place in fishing today.

I use mine once or twice a day, and I will continue to do so.

Much like slip bobber rigs, jigs tipped with live bait, etc..., I don't think it causes any unnecessary harm when done properly and carefully. It's all about the angler, not the equipment, right?

Waxy

[chuck0039]

Originally Posted by Dr. Fish

To properly handle and release fish a person should have a rubber mesh net, fish handling gloves (I think made by normark), decent needle nose pliers, mouth spreaders, hook de-gorger, and if after large prey possibly a cradle.

What is a hook de-gorger? I have never heard of this before. I do argee that everything else listed above should be found in every boat or tackle box.

[Waxy]

Whoops, repost.

[pecker]

Originally Posted by chuck0039

What is a hook de-gorger? I have never heard of this before. I do argee that everything else listed above should be found in every boat or tackle box.

curved, long-nosed , locking hemostats , the best addition to my tackle box ever.