wasting fish?

[Dr. Fish]

Originally Posted by chuck0039

What is a hook de-gorger? I have never heard of this before. I do argee that everything else listed above should be found in every boat or tackle box.

Its used for when a fish has the hook swallowed, its basically a peice of red plastic with a ball like device on both ends with a slot for the line. You put line in the slot and then keep the line tight while pushing the hook down and then turning. This allows the "ball end" to cover the hook and then you simply twist and pull the hook out with minimal damage to the fish. Sometimes it allows you to release the fish is so desired.

I bought mine at Canadian Tire and have also seen them at Wholesale, they are cheap and with a little practice are quite usefull. Sorry if my description is poor but I'm not sure how else to describe it. If i can I will find and post a pic.

[chuck0039]

thanks never heard of that before, I will have to go to canadian tire to look into purchasing one.

[Tundra Monkey]

No to pickeral rigs and still fishing??? Does that mean ice fishing is out as well??

Whatya mean no scales? Take a couple measurements and let em go? Sorry man....fishin for monsters and I wanna know the weight......mine goes to a 100lb's.....only been past 50 twice and bottomed out once.....yes we have large laker's up here. It was bottomed out on a trout that came out of the nets in Lutselke...so call it 105lbs. World record at the time was 76 and change from not too far down the lake.....I believe it's 78 and change now out of Great Bear.

I would sure feel like a dumb azz if I showed up with exact measurements of a fish that turned out to be a new world record

tm

[Tako]

No. The method does matter more than the bait. Using bait will cause higher mortality. No arguments there, I would hope.

The problem with pickerel rigs is that it is an "inactive" method of fishing. It is DESIGNED to have the fish swallow the bait, hook and line. Therefore, once you hear the bell, run over and actaully set the hook, the fish has the hook so far in it's stomach or throat, it's fairly impossible to get it out without killing them.

"Active" fishing methods, such as fly, spoon, spinner or even jig fishing, require an immediate hookset in most cases, or the fish gets away. An active hookset will result in the fish being hooked in the mouth or lip, requiring less handling time and damage to the fish itself.

How many times will you see a fish gut hooked by a fly? In my time, I've done it once, and it was because I wasn't paying attention and allowed the fish to swallow the fly (ridiculously uncommon).

That being said, most anglers in Alberta want to whack and stack their favourite fish, so they want to use the most lethal method of fishing, a pickerel rig. C&R fishing with a pickerel rig is basically pointless. C&R icefishing in sub zero temps is also basically pointless unless in a heated tent. The fish die during handling. #1 cause of fish mortality is not hooking, it's handling. Squeezing fish, pulling hooks out of gills and throats, dropping fish, wearing gloves. It all adds to fish mortality. And it all boils down to respecting the fish. But hey, now I'm banging on the door of the ethics nazis again. Not my call.

Coming from BC, the idea of a pickerel rig is so foreign it really doesn't make sense to me, because it's so ineffective (really, try a spinner some time, you'll be amazed at how high your catch rates go).

Go ahead, rip me to pieces

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Tako

Go ahead, rip me to pieces

Nope....that was a great post and no need to rip on you.Except you forgot to mention slipbobbers..

Yes they do catch fish....often deeply hooked.

I'm guilty..

[Tako]

I should also mention (before anyone screams purist flyfisher) that I've been bouncing worms off the bottom of the Peace for goldeye for the last month.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by Tako

No. The method does matter more than the bait. Using bait will cause higher mortality. No arguments there, I would hope.

The problem with pickerel rigs is that it is an "inactive" method of fishing. It is DESIGNED to have the fish swallow the bait, hook and line. Therefore, once you hear the bell, run over and actaully set the hook, the fish has the hook so far in it's stomach or throat, it's fairly impossible to get it out without killing them.

"Active" fishing methods, such as fly, spoon, spinner or even jig fishing, require an immediate hookset in most cases, or the fish gets away. An active hookset will result in the fish being hooked in the mouth or lip, requiring less handling time and damage to the fish itself.

How many times will you see a fish gut hooked by a fly? In my time, I've done it once, and it was because I wasn't paying attention and allowed the fish to swallow the fly (ridiculously uncommon).

That being said, most anglers in Alberta want to whack and stack their favourite fish, so they want to use the most lethal method of fishing, a pickerel rig. C&R fishing with a pickerel rig is basically pointless. C&R icefishing in sub zero temps is also basically pointless unless in a heated tent. The fish die during handling. #1 cause of fish mortality is not hooking, it's handling. Squeezing fish, pulling hooks out of gills and throats, dropping fish, wearing gloves. It all adds to fish mortality. And it all boils down to respecting the fish. But hey, now I'm banging on the door of the ethics nazis again. Not my call.

Coming from BC, the idea of a pickerel rig is so foreign it really doesn't make sense to me, because it's so ineffective (really, try a spinner some time, you'll be amazed at how high your catch rates go).

Go ahead, rip me to pieces

No ripping here, just kudos. Great post.

There's only a couple reasons I can think of to fish a pickerel rig, and neither of them is flattering to the angler - laziness and a lack of skill. If you combine those two attributes with a person that only fishes to fill the freezer, then maybe a pickerel rig is the presentation of choice. There's no challenge to it, certainly no skill involved, and it's boring. It's also usually a pretty ineffective method compared to everything else that's available.

There are a number of very effective techniques out there - slip bobbing and lindy rigging being the prime ones - where the intent of the technique is get the fish to swallow the bait and hook. Using small barbless hooks, these fish can be successfully released the vast majority of times, but it does inherently lead to a percentage of deeply hooked fish that can't be released with any expectation of their survival. As a result, these techniques are last resorts for me on C&R lakes, I would hope most people would feel the same way.

It does come down to the angler respecting and valuing the resource and adjusting their practices accordingly. We've come along way as a group, but there's no doubt we still have a long way to go.

Waxy

[Map Maker]

Back to the original discussion of wasting fish.

Frans, did you know that Fisheries fills put&take lakes full of trout, only to know that the fish will not make it thru the winter and will all die because of lack of oxygen?
Is that waste?

I do agree, it would be great if we can all dehook fish so they all survive but fish do die, but fish die all the time and they do give their nutrients back to the lake. Nature never wastes anything.

The only reason I am pointing this out is that you were bummed out by this guys actions and then you most likely bummed him out by your reaction. And this is just after both of you were enjoying Alberta nature's which is the whole point of getting out.

To me, if you see something illegal, report it. but if someone does something that rubs you wrong, just keep it to yourself and teach your children your way accordingly.

[slug]

i agree that poor handling is the major cause of fish mortality ,it is sad what you will see on some of the docks.and the common thought amongst most of them is "its only a jack the lakes polluted with them" or "who cares,its only a fish", well i care.when i am fishing 90% of the time i have my children with me(one is 4 the other 7),both are die hard fishermen (well one is fishergirl),i try to teach them right from wrong so i am very proud of them when they point out that someone did something wrong,and they dont miss much.if they see someone caught a fish they are right there with my net,pliers and side cutters right away to help anybody land and release their catch,there pretty good at it too.i believe that fishing and hunting is a resource that is only ours to borrow ,manage it correctly and pass it on to our kids and hopefully they have learned from all of us how to do the same.

just my opinion.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by slug

i agree that poor handling is the major cause of fish mortality ,it is sad what you will see on some of the docks.and the common thought amongst most of them is "its only a jack the lakes polluted with them" or "who cares,its only a fish", well i care.when i am fishing 90% of the time i have my children with me(one is 4 the other 7),both are die hard fishermen (well one is fishergirl),i try to teach them right from wrong so i am very proud of them when they point out that someone did something wrong,and they dont miss much.if they see someone caught a fish they are right there with my net,pliers and side cutters right away to help anybody land and release their catch,there pretty good at it too.i believe that fishing and hunting is a resource that is only ours to borrow ,manage it correctly and pass it on to our kids and hopefully they have learned from all of us how to do the same.

just my opinion.

Agreed with the last two posts .Very well said . There's way to limit fish mortality , but nature is a nasty thing as long as you respect her , ( I say her cus shes moody I know this will win bonus points from the women ) anyway Nature takes its course. A life cycle if you will. There's no difference in say A fishermen gut hooking a fish and it swimming off or a miss placed shot on a deer or any animal . Things happen and yes there's way to prevent it from happening but , not everyone has the same thinking or thoughts. And I think that Slug that you showing you kids the proper way to handle a fish is awesome . Its very impressive that they want to help others as well. There's lots of people who do things the safe humane proper way but then there's many who couldn't give a cats ass . So to all who respect our wonderful gift , our enviroment , and doing things to what benefits both with least damage I tip my hat and thank you .