Prairie Creek pollution

Don Andersen · #1 07-08-2022, 07:35 AM

Guys,

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/busines...-water-release

What is Prairie Creek worth?

Don

MountainTi · #2 07-08-2022, 07:56 AM

Was it intentional? Corrective actions and procedures put in place so it doesn't happen again?
What were the damages (was there enough dilution when it reached the creek)?

Bigwoodsman · #3 07-08-2022, 07:57 AM

Our fresh water creeks and rivers are priceless. Companies that jeopardize these creeks and rivers should be banned from operating in Canada. There are no excuses for polluting our drinking water sources or our recreational waters. These plants should have and be responsible for maintaining spill catch ponds. The proper disposal of chemicals etc etc. Our governments at all levels should also have a responsibility for inspections of said facilities to ensure spill prevention measures are in place and being maintained

BW

MountainTi · #4 07-08-2022, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Our fresh water creeks and rivers are priceless. Companies that jeopardize these creeks and rivers should be banned from operating in Canada. There are no excuses for polluting our drinking water sources or our recreational waters. These plants should have and be responsible for maintaining spill catch ponds. The proper disposal of chemicals etc etc. Our governments at all levels should also have a responsibility for inspections of said facilities to ensure spill prevention measures are in place and being maintained

BW

Facilities are inspected. Why do you think they aren't? Familiar with the industry are you? Care to know who does the inspections or just gonna make assumptions?
Unfortunately, same as workplace injuries, accidents happen. When these accidents/injuries happen, new procedures/policies are put in place to aid in the prevention. Same as life, it's all a learning curve. I applaud industry in how far they have come along in environmental stewardship. I have seen vast improvements in my time on earth and working in the oilpatch.
Or we could just shut down the industry and see how much life sucks lol

This trucking company NEEDS to be banned from ever operating in Canada!!

https://globalnews.ca/news/6178944/t...wson-creek-bc/

flydude · #5 07-08-2022, 08:29 AM

Here's some more info from the Alberta Energy Regulator site:

https://www1.aer.ca/compliancedashbo...s_2019-067.pdf

https://www1.aer.ca/compliancedashbo...r_2019-067.pdf

https://www.aer.ca/providing-informa...ase-2021-10-21

https://www.aer.ca/providing-informa...ase-2022-07-06

Don Andersen · #6 07-08-2022, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Was it intentional? Corrective actions and procedures put in place so it doesn't happen again?
What were the damages (was there enough dilution when it reached the creek)?

Nobody who has worked in the industry for any amount of time would have known draining acidic water to a natural water course was no longer acceptable.
Two questions arise:
1) who reported them?
2) who ordered the pollution and why were they not charged?

In order to determine fish kills, a number of population runs would have to be done for years to establish a baseline.
Then, post spill, more population runs would’ve been needed.
That didn’t happen. To ensure it should be done, extensive funding would be needed.

And lastly, at one time fines of this type were directed to activities that benefitted Fish and Wildlife. The Cons now dump the fines into Gen. Revenue.

Don

flydude · #7 07-08-2022, 08:51 AM

Agreed statement of facts:

https://www1.aer.ca/compliancedashbo...s_2019-067.pdf

Item 23

flydude · #8 07-08-2022, 08:53 AM

Creative Sentencing Item 4 on:

https://www1.aer.ca/compliancedashbo...r_2019-067.pdf

Don Andersen · #9 07-08-2022, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flydude

Creative Sentencing Item 4 on:

https://www1.aer.ca/compliancedashbo...r_2019-067.pdf

Wonder when it was switched back?
And as AER Is oil company funded, I gotta wonder where the money will go?

Don

MountainTi · #10 07-08-2022, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Wonder when it was switched back?
And as AER Is oil company funded, I gotta wonder where the money will go?

Don

Industry funded, government ran.
Much like ABSA

Where do you think it will go?

MountainTi · #11 07-08-2022, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Nobody who has worked in the industry for any amount of time would have known draining acidic water to a natural water course was no longer acceptable.
Two questions arise:
1) who reported them?
2) who ordered the pollution and why were they not charged?

In order to determine fish kills, a number of population runs would have to be done for years to establish a baseline.
Then, post spill, more population runs would’ve been needed.
That didn’t happen. To ensure it should be done, extensive funding would be needed.

And lastly, at one time fines of this type were directed to activities that benefitted Fish and Wildlife. The Cons now dump the fines into Gen. Revenue.

Don

You forgot to answer my questions Don.

Don Andersen · #12 07-08-2022, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You forgot to answer my questions Don.

Did answer the one at 07:56.
Haven’t been back here since.
And I’m busy so……
Maybe later.

DON

Don Andersen · #13 07-09-2022, 08:07 AM

Mountain TI.

What questions were not answered?

Don

MountainTi · #14 07-09-2022, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Was it intentional? Corrective actions and procedures put in place so it doesn't happen again?
What were the damages (was there enough dilution when it reached the creek)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Mountain TI.

What questions were not answered?

Don

I have no idea on the volume released or how contaminated the water was. Was it strictly acidic? Or other contaminants? If it was strictly a low PH, I would think it would be diluted fairly quickly and hopefully no long term damage was done. I would also hope and guess lessons were learned and new procedures are in place so this doesn't and can't happen again. Is this the case?

Don Andersen · #15 07-09-2022, 08:38 AM

Flydude,

My thanx for posting the info about the court case. I tried to attend the trial or get Zoom link. I was unable to do so.
Tried to search court docs with the same result.
The Court web site talked about public access and then I couldn’t find anyway to access and this was after several phone calls.

Directed fines were used for sometime and if I can recall correctly, came to a end when Streawatch existed.

I was working with one group on a project and poof - gone!
Good to see them back.

Don

flydude · #16 07-09-2022, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

I have no idea on the volume released or how contaminated the water was. Was it strictly acidic? Or other contaminants? If it was strictly a low PH, I would think it would be diluted fairly quickly and hopefully no long term damage was done. I would also hope and guess lessons were learned and new procedures are in place so this doesn't and can't happen again. Is this the case?

Mountain, see the agreed statements of facts link I posted in post number seven, this may answer some of your questions.

SNAPFisher · #17 07-10-2022, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You forgot to answer my questions Don.

You have a mouse and keyboard right? Do some work instead of hammering on someone who cares and brings light to issues. I want to hear about these issues myself and especially when something like this happens.

Thanks Flydude for all the links and information. It is appreciated.

The plant is only 5 km, as the crow flies, from Prairie Creek. I'm no expert but this incident seems likely it will not be a pending environmental disaster. I think that fact it even exists in that location... I would rather it didn't. Just my opinion.

The other thing that would be good to see is Tidewater putting up this incident on their news area on their own website. I'm sure their investors love seeing the dividends and how much money is rolling in along with some information on what a steward of the environment they are. How about some news about the incident. You know something to all employees and investors about recognizing this happened, providing evidence of what they are doing to make it does not happen again, etc.
We are 2 and half years in on this and nothing. Where is the guts to do that? How hard is it to admit to that and call what happened. Especially after pleading guilty. I hope that is something that we would see coming now that the case is settled. I"ve booked marked their website and will follow for a bit.

Don Andersen · #18 07-11-2022, 06:24 AM

Snap…

The creek effected is a tributary. There are streams on both the north and south sides of the Ram plant that flow to Prairie,
I fished the effected tributary many years ago. Access was only through the plant.

Don

Don Andersen · #19 07-11-2022, 07:21 AM

Snap…

The creek effected is a tributary. There are streams on both the north and south sides of the Ram plant that flow to Prairie,
I fished the effected tributary many years ago. Access was only through the plant.

Don

SNAPFisher · #20 07-17-2022, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Snap…

The creek effected is a tributary. There are streams on both the north and south sides of the Ram plant that flow to Prairie,
I fished the effected tributary many years ago. Access was only through the plant.

Don

Makes sense. And that sucks all the more. $100K is a minor slap on the hands.

Don Andersen · #21 07-17-2022, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Industry funded, government ran.
Much like ABSA

Where do you think it will go?

MTN ….

1) I have no idea where any monies go
2) I have no idea if any procedures where in place for pond draining
3) I have no idea if new/different procedures are in place now
4) I have no idea about……..

Don

Sundancefisher · #22 07-17-2022, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Wonder when it was switched back?
And as AER Is oil company funded, I gotta wonder where the money will go?

Don

AER is 100% industry funded government department.

Funded yes. Controlled no.

They do mandate where the money goes. I’ve seen money directed to the environment to fix problems.

To me the fine seemed light.

ESOXangler · #23 07-22-2022, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

AER is 100% industry funded government department.

Funded yes. Controlled no.

They do mandate where the money goes. I’ve seen money directed to the environment to fix problems.

To me the fine seemed light.

The AER has been pretty much muzzled the last few years. There used to be a few really good stickers there but they were packaged off a few years ago. Since then they've relaxed a bit that's for sure.

I deal with them on a monthly basis so while this is entirely anecdotal it is certainly true.

NCC · #24 07-23-2022, 12:06 AM

This release consisted of 30m3 of water that was diluted in a settling pond before going off site. Given that the same high rainfall event that caused the high levels in the ponds would have increased the run off in the creek, I would be quite surprised if the pH of Flare Creek was statistically different at the discharge point than it was the day before the release. From what I read in the agreed statement of facts, there were no other pollutants.

$100 000 is hardly a slap on the wrist. That would keep 5 summer students employed for the year.

There are some irresponsible operators in the patch but I don't think Tidewater is one of them.