Another Homeowner gets Charged for Harming Poor Innocent Thieves

[diamonddave]

This is one of the threads that I normally would not get into for the fact that it pi$$es me off.
All I can say is ehntr, you have every right to step aside and let some perp have his way with your possesions and your life, which is the way the laws would have you do it. Myself, I disagree with the laws that let that same perp get away with that, and there is no way on gods green earth, that he will be spending his probation laughing with buddies over his good score. Not if I came home to find him trying to make his getaway from my front yard.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

This is one of the threads that I normally would not get into for the fact that it pi$$es me off.
All I can say is ehntr, you have every right to step aside and let some perp have his way with your possesions and your life, which is the way the laws would have you do it. Myself, I disagree with the laws that let that same perp get away with that, and there is no way on gods green earth, that he will be spending his probation laughing with buddies over his good score. Not if I came home to find him trying to make his getaway from my front yard.

You obviously did not read my posts. I said none of what you posted. Nor do I agree with any of it. I simply don't believe killing thieves who are not threatening you is the answer. If you do, come out and say so. That is the only issue I had dd.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by on point

You think if he was protecting his family he would of got a plate # and called the cops and kept his family away from the scene.

You might call that protecting your family, I call it running and hiding which is exactly what the "justice system" and criminals want us to do.

I can see how it could be called protecting, but how is it defending?
Do we have a "Right" to defend our person and property? Or don't we?

Or is our only right to run and hide.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Who is supporting a criminals right to ply their trade without fear or injury? I call BS on you again. Retreating and changing your line....this is a quote from back when we were commenting on the original post........when their was no indication of any physical threat at all......a guy sitting in a car in his driveway.



You seem to be distancing yourself from that statement now. I personally wouldn't be able to wield a hatchet or axe with enough control, while wailing away at someones head, to not kill them lol. You think this is possible? Wielding a hatchet or axe and wailing it at someones head is deadly force....a reasonable person ought to know that. He is damn lucky he didn't kill that guy. That would be sad and I'm not talking about the perp so much.......you're not even thinking about the consequences the guy with the hatchet would have had to deal with. Then insert some emotion and fantasy into it by talking about his dead dad's ashes....where do come up with that stuff lol (you would make a good liberal tactician ). That's just meant to stir up the "interweb bravado guys". Yeah high fives all around for you (not). You didn't express any need to secure the perp at the crime scene unless you think that wailing away at his head with an axe was an appropriate way to secure a non-threatening perp (remember that was how the OP posted it). Now you think it's not right to torture him? I congratulate you on your flop. You've come around. You aren't infected with the rage anymore. Good for you.

Where did I ever imply that it was ok to torture anyone? All I've ever said is that I support this homeowner using whatever force he felt was necessary to protect himself and his property and that my sympathies lie with him NOT the criminal that lost a few teeth. AND even if he had injured this miscreant more severely I would still feel the same. Too bad that offends you. You can dance around with the words all night, and who said what with what knowledge they knew when, but that's what it comes down to.

To make the assumption that a criminal that has just broken into your house is not a threat is assinine. No matter how the journalist reported it, any criminal on your property is a threat. I didn't flip or flop or come around to the liberal way of thinking and I was never "infected" with anything.

And yes...I would make a good liberal tactician. Been watching them twist people for years. Nice try though.

[AxeMan]

Dang, this guy was just giving creedence to my signature statement....lol.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by ehntr

BS................you didn't know any more facts than the original story

Who says the original story is fact or even contains facts?

Originally Posted by ehntr

The original story didn't say anything about a wife, just that he axed a guy in a car in his driveway.

That is what the original story reported. But is that really what happened?
Or is it what the perp. said happened?

Pretty sloppy reporting if you ask me. This reporter did not identify the source of that information. I wonder why, maybe because it would not support this reporters slant on the story?

Originally Posted by ehntr

Using an axe on someones face tells me their is intent to kill.

I agree.
If that is what really happened. What I have learned since that original report does not lead me to that conclusion.
It is why I did not comment on the original report. I have learned to NOT TRUST THE MEDIA.

As I see it, we can believe this reporters obviously poorly done story and conclude that excessive force was used.

Or I can research this through multiple sources and that leads me to conclude that we don't know what really happened and probably never will.
I can also deduce what most likely happened and base my "opinion on that"
From the evidence I have seen, note that I say evidence not facts, I conclude that at this time I see no reason to believe that excessive force was used. I further conclude that there is considerable evidence that excessive force was not used.

[bigoldan43]

I find it hard to believe that the thief was attacked without provoking the landowner.
Not too many farmers that I've met will just up and attack you with a hatchet as you're walking up, smiling, hand out and politely introducing yourself. Which is what you should do if you enter someone's home or property.
For those in this thread that figure the landowner acted over the top, you are absolutely correct. There is no reason the landowner should of been in this situation. There are laws that are suppose to protect us from being in this situation.

I'm sure if given the time he would have come up with a different way of doing things. But like the rest of us, he used what means he had to protect his home, property and loved ones the best way he could come up with on short notice.

I'm sure if a crow bar or hammer would of been at hand, he would of used those instead. I'm betting he just grabbed what was closest and did what seemed to be a good idea at the time.

Wonder how the thread would read if the closest thing to a weapon he could lay a hand to was a weiner stick?

[DustDee]

KegRiver talked about the reporting in the media story and the lack of sources. A few posts back I commented on the story and added a few details not included in the media report. I would like to comment on my sources of information. I talked to a few of the neighbours that had talked with the gentleman involved. Although there were slight differences in a few details, the main points lined up. There was evidence of a break and enter, his wife was in the vehicle, he grabbed the hatchet because it was the closest thing with which to arm himself, the perp was using his vehicle to smash into the homeowners vehicle and the garage.

[DairyMan7]

Guys I think we are arguing the same point...First scenario sees thief not threaten good guy and good guy smokes him with a hatchet. All he knows was an unknown car is in his driveway and his house has been broken into. We all agree that the thieves should be dealt with accordingly, but in that scenario its a bit harsh....for the hatchet.
Now second scenario, sees good guy coming out of house, same as first scenario though no bad guy is raming his car with his wife in it...I think we would successfully argue that the good guy feared Death or Grievous Bodily Harm and needed to stop the threat the quickest way he knew how...I agree with the hatchet...personally I would have probably gone for the axe, or my sidearm, if I had worn my uniform home that day...I think we can all agree on that.......Now the matter still needs to be investigated....Regardless....Doesn't everyone think so?

Like that one fella said, its a charge he is not convicted of anything yet.

Lastly this system a lot of you don't like and even I sometimes hate and I deal with the ****rats all the time is....our system like it or not separates us from the Taliban or harsher countries like world war 1, 2 germany, cold war russia, vietnam, korea. Remember that important day thats coming up soon........thats what they fought for....Freedom. Not a just a freedom of speech, or religion. A freedom against government rule, a free state. The fact that I can make my own beef, or say what I want to say, be heard, vote of parliment and that everyone will be tried fairly.
So what Judges need to do in this case is.....convict the person with the crime, theft, and the assault. Because on a blank piece of paper thats what that is. A theft that resulted in an assault. Now how did this happen, why did this happen. Could it be avoided, would a normal person do that.(normal person, not a normal redneck) Let the Jury decide. Regardless of the outcome, if it was tried fairly then I'm happy...**** I'd be disappointed in the system if he got convicted, of course, let the judge and jury figure that out.

I do agree that our system is mainly on the soft side. But you have to remember, thats the way it is. If you want to change it...then do it don't..B!@#$ about it.
Oh furthermore a lot of you have written bad mouthing the RCMP. Hey I don't begrudge anyone, but whatever you do dont blame it on the Constable. Blame it on the political agendas the hire ups seem to have. I would agree on you there. The RCMP should be more worried about criminals then punishing the average joe. I can tell you thats what I do, each and every day I work the street. Oh and I am 100% against the gun registry. Signed Huntinstuff too.

Some you have written about eye for an eye, his arms should have been chopped off, blah blah blah and that brings me back to one of my first points, we weren't there we can speculate all we want. We can read different points of view from the globe and mail, journalist, the sun journalist, but we can't change one fact.........none of us were there. I can guarantee there is more to the story.

[Sporty]

IMO, if you are in your home and someone breaks in, defend yourself, your family, your property. People wouldn't expect any less. There are many instances where the matter of protection deviates to wanting to mete out justice and punish the criminal vigilante style. All these comments of the shoot, shovel and shut up, I for one do not place any material item over the life of someone else, criminal or not, and I personally would never lower myself to the criminal's level by meting out justice not befitting the crime, I could always buy another quad even though it would suck financially, I could never buy back my self respect if I lowered myself to a criminal level by shooting, shoveling and shutting up over a quad. If I refuse to lower myself to a criminal level that doesn't make me a liberal with an infected mind, that makes me better than the average criminal.

[rhuntley12]

I really hope the case gets dismissed very quickly and whoever made the choice to put charges against him gets lots of bad publicity.

[Albertadiver]

The Taber-area man charged with assaulting a person suspected of burglarizing his home was defending his wife at the time, his lawyer said Wednesday.

On Tuesday, RCMP announced they’d charged Joseph Singleton for striking a suspected intruder twice in the face with a hatchet outside his acreage home near Taber on the night of May 29 of this year.

They say Singleton and his wife had returned to find a car parked in their driveway and halted their vehicle behind it to prevent it from leaving.

After failing to find anyone inside their badly-ransacked home, police say Singleton encountered a man in the strange car and struck him twice in the face with a hatchet.

After weighing the incident, Crown prosecutors advised laying charges due to the allegedly excessive force used but Singleton’s lawyer, Douglas Carle, said his client feared the life of his wife when he swung the hatchet.

The suspect, he said, had rammed Singleton’s car and was accelerating forward towards Marilyn Singleton, who was only two metres away on the other side of a garage door, said Carle.

“He thought it would hit his wife — that’s when he swung the flat end of the hatchet,” he said.

When the suspect, 20-year-old Luc Roy, failed to heed his second demand to stop, Singleton struck him again, said Carle.

“It was obvious he was going forward ... it wasn’t out of fear for his property, it was out of fear for his wife,” he said, adding the entire violent episode lasted about six seconds.

Marilyn Singleton was calling 911 inside the garage when the suspect began ramming his vehicle, said Carle.

Until now, his oil services worker client, he said, had never been in deeper legal trouble than a speeding ticket.

When summoned by RCMP this week, Singleton thought it involved the return of some property still missing from his house.

“He got the shock of his life, getting his mug shot and fingerprints taken,” said Carle, adding those in the close-knit community “are 99 per cent in support.

“They know the story,” he said.

Singleton, 46, makes his first court appearance Nov. 16 while Roy and two other males have been charged with break and enter.

Carle said he’s confident his client will be exonerated.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alber.../15853471.html

[Albertadiver]

This may help explain why the home-owner was charged to begin with...

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canad.../15862926.html


....

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by bigoldan43

I find it hard to believe that the thief was attacked without provoking the landowner.

Why do you find it hard to believe? A number of posters read the original story and said they would do it.

"I would be claiming that the thief attacked me,and that I acted in self defense."

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by DustDee

KegRiver talked about the reporting in the media story and the lack of sources. A few posts back I commented on the story and added a few details not included in the media report. I would like to comment on my sources of information. I talked to a few of the neighbours that had talked with the gentleman involved. Although there were slight differences in a few details, the main points lined up. There was evidence of a break and enter, his wife was in the vehicle, he grabbed the hatchet because it was the closest thing with which to arm himself, the perp was using his vehicle to smash into the homeowners vehicle and the garage.

Thank you for the extra details Dustdee. And for quoting your source.

If the reporter who was quoted in the first posting on this thread,had named his sources we might have a very different picture of what really happened.

I am sure that this discussion would have been friendlier if he had.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

This may help explain why the home-owner was charged to begin with...

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canad.../15862926.html


....

Thanks Albertadiver. I found that gene in my sheep as well. At least the ones who didn't get it and tried to make friends with the wolves.
I also don't believe the gene is baked in, I would say "half baked" at best.

[RyleyW]

If you take the time to read what actually happened Joseph Singleton had reason to fear for his wife's safety, the criminal was preparing to ram his car a second time when Joe hit him with the flat portion of the hatchet. Anyone who agrees that Joseph Bradley Singleton or anyone else should not be punished for simply protecting their family please vist this site www.honestjoe.ca.

[FishingMOM]

Man who hit robber with hatchet no longer charged
CBC News Posted: Jun 14, 2011 11:21 AM MT Last Updated: Jun 14, 2011

All charges have been dropped against a southern Alberta man who was accused of hitting an escaping robber last spring with the broad side of a hatchet.

Joseph Bradley Singleton, 46, and his wife arrived at their Taber-area acreage on May 29, 2010, to discover that intruders had broken into their house.

One man was struck in the face with the blunt side of a hatchet as he tried to get away in a vehicle, injuring his teeth and face.

That man later pleaded guilty to break and enter and received a conditional sentence.

After consulting the Crown prosecutor's office, RCMP charged Singleton with one count of assault with a weapon and one count of assault causing bodily harm.

Rather than face trial, the homeowner was told last month he could instead complete an alternative measures program. He has now finished that process, officials said Tuesday.

Singleton received an outpouring of support from members of the community who believed he should not have been charged for protecting his property and family.

Taber is about 50 kilometres east of Lethbridge.

[gitrdun]

Out here in cowboy country, we look out for each other.

[finsnfeathers]

So, does Singleton now have a criminal record?? I'm very curious.... More Singletons = less criminal activity, IMO. I also agree with an earlier comment that the thief suffered an "OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD"...nothing more. You choose the lifestyle, means you agree to it's hazards and risks, and they should be HIGH..

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by finsnfeathers

So, does Singleton now have a criminal record?? I'm very curious.... More Singletons = less criminal activity, IMO. I also agree with an earlier comment that the thief suffered an "OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD"...nothing more. You choose the lifestyle, means you agree to it's hazards and risks, and they should be HIGH..

No record

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Out here in cowboy country, we look out for each other.

That bad boy shows no record either, 'specially when seeded over with alfalfa. The true meaning of .... shovel and shut up.

[CanadianEh]

Too bad the police dont work with the homeowners like they do with he Marines in the USA..

Here is a story from an Atlanta newspaper:

"Orville Smith, a store manager for Best Buy in Augusta, Georgia, told police he observed a male customer, later identified as Tyrone Jackson of Augusta, on surveillance cameras putting a laptop computer under his jacket. When confronted the man became irate, knocked down an employee, drew a knife and ran for the door.

Outside on the sidewalk were four Marines collecting toys for the "Toys for Tots" program. Smith said the Marines stopped the man, but he stabbed one of the Marines, Cpl. Phillip Duggan, in the back; the injury did not appear to be severe.

After Police and an ambulance arrived at the scene Cpl. Duggan was transported for treatment.

The subject was also transported to the local hospital with two broken arms, a broken ankle, a broken leg, several missing teeth, possible broken ribs, multiple contusions, assorted lacerations, a broken nose and a broken jaw...injuries he sustained when he slipped and fell off of the curb after stabbing the Marine, according to the official Police report."

[KegRiver]

That's good news fishingmom.

He shouldn't have been charged in the first place and any deal they offered him is an injustice but at least they backed of on trying to throw him in jail.

One good thing that comes out of this incident. It points to the source of the problem. The crown prosecutor.

He could have requested further investigation instead of demanding charges be laid and thus wasting a huge amount of our money and putting an innocent, and probably pro law and order individual, through hell.

I wonder how often this sort of thing happens and the police take the blame.

[NS Beagler]

It can also end up like this http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1248475.html

[Photoplex]

The thought of getting smashed in the teeth and face with this is making my eyes water!!

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

Too bad the police dont work with the homeowners like they do with he Marines in the USA..

Here is a story from an Atlanta newspaper:

"Orville Smith, a store manager for Best Buy in Augusta, Georgia, told police he observed a male customer, later identified as Tyrone Jackson of Augusta, on surveillance cameras putting a laptop computer under his jacket. When confronted the man became irate, knocked down an employee, drew a knife and ran for the door.

Outside on the sidewalk were four Marines collecting toys for the "Toys for Tots" program. Smith said the Marines stopped the man, but he stabbed one of the Marines, Cpl. Phillip Duggan, in the back; the injury did not appear to be severe.

After Police and an ambulance arrived at the scene Cpl. Duggan was transported for treatment.

The subject was also transported to the local hospital with two broken arms, a broken ankle, a broken leg, several missing teeth, possible broken ribs, multiple contusions, assorted lacerations, a broken nose and a broken jaw...injuries he sustained when he slipped and fell off of the curb after stabbing the Marine, according to the official Police report."

Yup, and that's how it should run. Love it....thanks for your research.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Photoplex

The thought of getting smashed in the teeth and face with this is making my eyes water!!

The thought of smashing someone in the face with this breaking into my house and threatening harm on my family wells me up inside too

[Photoplex]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

The thought of smashing someone in the face breaking into my house and threatening harm on my family wells me up inside too

Hey hey, I never made a judgement. I was talking purely out of context.

[gitrdun]

It would be a "split" decision to say the least.

edit: dang photoplex, you are one bad arse fast typer.