Are Triploids and escaped farm fish Trophies?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

How does Alberta stock rainbow trout? Do they use hatchery broodstock? I would be surprised if they didn't acquire their broodstock from another hatchery and it is a strain that has been selectively bred to be a strong disease resistant fish. It costs money to grow fish in a hatchery, so it is advantageous to house and grow fish like this.

Can we be a bit more specific about how fish are actually raised in AB?

There are so many different methods in this province and others that assumptions aren't worth much.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

you grow them and catch them, may as well stuff a fish in an aquarium and catch it over and over again, thats not fishing, thats playing with pets. get out in the real world and work for your fish. how can you call a hand fed and pet raised fish a trophy??? maybe if you cant catch fish in the real world.

LOL, Im sorry I have a dugout with afew trout in it, I will never do it again LOLOL. You speak of real world fishing,, hmmm. I see your rookie posts and laugh my azz off non stop here. Your head is swelled up from all your supposed real world fishing experience, so hows this loud mouth, you take a bet for pink slips with boats? You even have one? Species and Ab body of water, weather doesnt matter,, Mr, Id let you pick. Now hows that for real world loud mouth. Got anything you wanna wager besides an old decrepid canoe rigged with quantum's on ugly sticks, and the latest technology in spoons and pickeral rigs?

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Can we be a bit more specific about how fish are actually raised in AB?

There are so many different methods in this province and others that assumptions aren't worth much.

Sorry BeeGuy, hopefully someone else can chime in on this as I am not that familiar with your hatcheries in Alberta. I would be really surprised, though, if your broodstock rainbows are not from a west-coast hatchery strain.

[burbotman]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

you grow them and catch them, may as well stuff a fish in an aquarium and catch it over and over again, thats not fishing, thats playing with pets. get out in the real world and work for your fish. how can you call a hand fed and pet raised fish a trophy??? maybe if you cant catch fish in the real world.

Not sure where this came from or why it needed to be said I think Packs post shows the upside to 3 n's. Fast growing strong fish that can add a different angling experiance. For the issue of records I would count private waters out. Pack I bet that dug out is a hoot and pretty rewarding to be the"manager" of it. With all the reg talks lately on CR v harvest I think it must be interesting to have the authority on an albeit smaller body of water.

[Don Andersen]

Folks,

There are @ least 2 sources of eggs - the Raven Brood Station and the Allison Springs Brood station. The Brood stations, both Provincially owned and operated, provide the eggs to the Sam Livingstone facility in Calgary for hatching and raising to "stocking" sizes.
The rainbows have been "manipulated" to spawn in the fall so that the Govt doesn't have to keep the little stockies for a full year but rather for months. The rainbow stock came/comes primarily from the US and the brooders are switched out every now and then to maintain genetic health. There was a single year where the Govt stocked 3NAF rainbows from a US hatchery. They are long and lean rather than the Ralph Klein short and dumpy look. The Govt now stocks 3N in some waters and 2N on others depending on how the biologist wants to either protect the attached water course from foreign invaders, to grow larger fish or to preform some kind of growth experiment.
There are 3 types of chromosome fish stocked. 2N, 3N or 3NAF. 2N are natural reproducing fish where as 3N have their chromosomes changed to render them sterile. 3NAF are the "top" of the line in terms of fish quality as they don't exhibit the jacking characteristics of 2N or 3N fish, grow better and tend to exhibit high levels of body conditioning all their lives [think teenagers]. It is worth noting that the Govt of Alberta doesn't stock 3NAF fish now but chose the cheaper 3N process that of course provides a much lousier product.

The Fresh Water Institute of BC operates a great web site explaining the hows/whys of use of various stains + a great tutorial on 3N fish. See: http://www.gofishbc.com/maxperformance.htm

Now there ya' go Bee Gee - now you have some info to base your assumptions on.

Don

[pickrel pat]

if the fish is not native to the area through natural distribution, it is not a trophy.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

if the fish is not native to the area through natural distribution, it is not a trophy.

That's a tough one. Very few rainbow populations in this country retain their original genetic profile. The COSEWIC report on east kootenay cutthroat provides some great info on this.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

That's a tough one. Very few rainbow populations in this country retain their original genetic profile. The COSEWIC report on east kootenay cutthroat provides some great info on this.

then to me its not a trophy( remember people..... i said to me...) im all about the natural.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

if the fish is not native to the area through natural distribution, it is not a trophy.

Then rainbows are out, browns are out, brook trout are out, and the vast majority of Cutties are out. Most perch are probably out, along with a fair number of walleye lakes.

Should change your name to Picky Pat.

[BeeGuy]

I'm sure he's being either sarcastic or facetious.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Then rainbows are out, browns are out, brook trout are out, and the vast majority of Cutties are out. Most perch are probably out, along with a fair number of walleye lakes.

I know this.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by burbotman

Not sure where this came from or why it needed to be said I think Packs post shows the upside to 3 n's. Fast growing strong fish that can add a different angling experiance. For the issue of records I would count private waters out. Pack I bet that dug out is a hoot and pretty rewarding to be the"manager" of it. With all the reg talks lately on CR v harvest I think it must be interesting to have the authority on an albeit smaller body of water.

Ya man u bet, it has been a blast. Sure have been able to size up some data showing how off base guys are as well when they say C&R promotes mortality. We dont fish them in warm dog days of summer weather mind you, the big girls wear themselves out to the point of no return and a guys simply cannot revive them in warm surface water temp with low disolved oxygen levels,, and it makes no difference how efficiently a guy aerates. I have a rainbow we call one eyed jack, she only has one eye, injury when a baby. I have caught and released that fish 8 or 9 times. That is merely one fish,, C&R WORKS if a guy knows what he or she is doing.
Its amazing what they will do when they have just a small window of opportunity provided for growth before a guy decides to harvest. There are some stocked private lakes and ponds in Ab that produce mosters up to 30 pounds. Ive seen afew and heard of afew sloughs, I saw one on an Ab fishing show. The guys there werent doing anything different than anyone else in the province. They werent super human, just battle hardened anglers fishing for HOGS in a system that promoted fish growing up. A system managed contrary to the common Ab idea that fish need to be harvested as stocklings in this province. Not sure if that makes those trout trophy's or not, I guess I would say so. Just because I dont have the pleasure of access to that particular land doesnt mean a rainbow that comes off of it is inferior somehow. I spend a bunch of time out west like many others as well chasing small creek trout of varying species. A good one is sometimes along the lines of a stockling in many fish programs. Both are trophy's in my eyes. Obviously like previously mentioned, private lake fish and public access fish cannot share the same table in AFGA provincial competition. As far as trips vs dips in public accesible fisheries in direct competition, not my call I guess.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Ya man u bet, it has been a blast. Sure have been able to size up some data showing how off base guys are as well when they say C&R promotes mortality. We dont fish them in warm dog days of summer weather mind you, the big girls wear themselves out to the point of no return and a guys simply cannot revive them in warm surface water temp with low disolved oxygen levels,, and it makes no difference how efficiently a guy aerates. I have a rainbow we call one eyed jack, she only has one eye, injury when a baby. I have caught and released that fish 8 or 9 times. That is merely one fish,, C&R WORKS if a guy knows what he or she is doing.
Its amazing what they will do when they have just a small window of opportunity provided for growth before a guy decides to harvest. There are some stocked private lakes and ponds in Ab that produce mosters up to 30 pounds. Ive seen afew and heard of afew sloughs, I saw one on an Ab fishing show. The guys there werent doing anything different than anyone else in the province. They werent super human, just battle hardened anglers fishing for HOGS in a system that promoted fish growing up. A system managed contrary to the common Ab idea that fish need to be harvested as stocklings in this province. Not sure if that makes those trout trophy's or not, I guess I would say so. Just because I dont have the pleasure of access to that particular land doesnt mean a rainbow that comes off of it is inferior somehow. I spend a bunch of time out west like many others as well chasing small creek trout of varying species. A good one is sometimes along the lines of a stockling in many fish programs. Both are trophy's in my eyes.

just curious if a person has to use barbless in a dugout.... i would think not? does a guy need a fishing licence if the only fishing he does is in his dugout?

[packhuntr]

Nope and nope. But it is strictly barbless on my water LOL! Tough to be succesful with C&R if your fish are torn to sh*t. You wouldnt believe how many problems guys create through ignorance with fish. Public lakes guys release them and they are never seen again. When you have people fishing in a small system and get to see the damage swimming around and in some cases not swimming,, you learn quickly to place restrictions on what can and cannot be used on the private fishery LOL. When done right the whole system/idea of C&R is ABSOLUTELY BULLETPROOF.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Nope and nope. But it is strictly barbless on my water LOL! Tough to be succesful with C&R if your fish are torn to sh*t. You wouldnt believe how many problems guys create through ignorance with fish. Public lakes guys release them and they are never seen again. When you have people fishing in a small system and get to see the damage swimming around and in some cases not swimming,, you learn quickly to place restrictions on what can and cannot be used on the private fishery LOL. When done right the whole system/idea of C&R is ABSOLUTELY BULLETPROOF.

i agree, im barbless all the way. just curious.

[packhuntr]

I guess I should say C&R in these systems promotes and produces trophy caliber fish, wether we make the choice to refer to them as that or not... Benefits for everyone abound LOL! What a concept man LOL

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

There are some stocked private lakes and ponds in Ab that produce mosters up to 30 pounds. Ive seen afew and heard of afew sloughs, I saw one on an Ab fishing show.

Is that an exaggeration or are you being serious, 30 pounds?

[packhuntr]

No Sir, no exaggeration. 25 to best Ive caught wind of @ 28 pounds. Others would likely know more. It is a private spring fed lake (acres ??) down in that south country. Dont ask where cause I havent seen it personally. Never seen it except on T.V. Hate for anyone to wind up shot. It must be deep enough to overwinter as being on a ranch, I HIGHLY doubt he's aerating. Natural feed I understand too! Heard the owner doesnt even fish LOL. Amazing what some time and a little C&R fun can do aint it... Too bad SRD wouldnt pull thier heads out of thier ***es and let us have some fun like that too. Hate for there to be some of these win-win situations through out the province THAT COST LITTLE to maintain aside from smaller than normal stocking figures. Its better to have a constant/ongoing braul with ANGLERS I suppose, while keeping the johnny come lately, once a year fisherman happy so they can kill everything in sight.

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

No Sir, no exaggeration. 25 to best Ive caught wind of @ 28 pounds. Others would likely know more. It is a private spring fed lake (acres ??) down in that south country. Dont ask where cause I havent seen it personally. Never seen it except on T.V. Hate for anyone to wind up shot. It must be deep enough to overwinter as being on a ranch, I HIGHLY doubt he's aerating. Natural feed I understand too! Heard the owner doesnt even fish LOL. Amazing what some time and a little C&R fun can do aint it... Too bad SRD wouldnt pull thier heads out of thier ***es and let us have some fun like that too. Hate for there to be some of these win-win situations through out the province THAT COST LITTLE to maintain aside from smaller than normal stocking figures. Its better to have a constant/ongoing braul with ANGLERS I suppose, while keeping the johnny come lately, once a year fisherman happy so they can kill everything in sight.

nice! pics?

[packhuntr]

No sir, never been there. Dont know the ones that are lucky enough to have access. Only know afew guys from that way. Be some south country boys around that might have a photo or two floating around? They arent mythical monsters of the dark ages though thats for sure. Looks like you already know what something like that looks like Mr! Should show that profile pic of yours off abit. Lots of us around never seen anything like that in our lives!

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

No sir, never been there. Dont know the ones that are lucky enough to have access. Only know afew guys from that way. Be some south country boys around that might have a photo or two floating around? They arent mythical monsters of the dark ages though thats for sure. Looks like you already know what something like that looks like Mr! Should show that profile pic of yours off abit. Lots of us around never seen anything like that in our lives!

it sounds unreal, private lake with 30 pound rainbows - sign me up! As soon as we move out of the city that is my first project, design and dig a trout pond! Are there clips of the fishing show on the internet anywhere that you know of? I gotta see this place..

[fishinggeek]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

it sounds unreal, private lake with 30 pound rainbows - sign me up! As soon as we move out of the city that is my first project, design and dig a trout pond! Are there clips of the fishing show on the internet anywhere that you know of? I gotta see this place..

Matt. i seen a show that was shot in alberta. they guys were catching 25inch bows like nothing and they caught one that would be pushing the 30inch mark, maybe 18-20lbs, but the show i seen was at least 5 years ago. couldn't beleive it myself.
One of our clients caught a 31lb rainbow trout from a bc lake that they were introduced to as diploids and the first 5-8 years after they introduced them to that lake they were catching up to 30lbs, i didn't believe it myself until he showed me pics. the fish were gorging on freshwater shrimp, you could scoop them out in bucket fulls he said. then after the trout started spawning and overtaking the lake the weights dropped, and now it is hard to catch a 20lber from there. He said they got 4 in the 30lb range in a 4 day trip.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by fishinggeek

Matt. i seen a show that was shot in alberta. they guys were catching 25inch bows like nothing and they caught one that would be pushing the 30inch mark, maybe 18-20lbs, but the show i seen was at least 5 years ago. couldn't beleive it myself.
One of our clients caught a 31lb rainbow trout from a bc lake that they were introduced to as diploids and the first 5-8 years after they introduced them to that lake they were catching up to 30lbs, i didn't believe it myself until he showed me pics. the fish were gorging on freshwater shrimp, you could scoop them out in bucket fulls he said. then after the trout started spawning and overtaking the lake the weights dropped, and now it is hard to catch a 20lber from there. He said they got 4 in the 30lb range in a 4 day trip.

It wasnt a series of smaller joined spring fed ponds mostly surrounded by trees was it Or was it an actual lake

[Speckle55]

June 1980 Jasper National Park small lake 4 rainbows over 20# netted and released by David Donald Bio for parks did study on that lake the Plankton and Zooilogy of that lake is unbelievable

Food for Thought
David

[fishinggeek]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

It wasnt a series of smaller joined spring fed ponds mostly surrounded by trees was it Or was it an actual lake

all i remember from the alberta show on tv, was that they walked out about 1/2km and fished an area that was near a little power shed. It was very windy and they were flyfishing. looked to be a diecent size lake, but its hard to say, they didn't say much about the lake, but i think i remember that they said it was private, and i think in southern alberta.
The lake in bc, the client wouldn't tell me the name of the lake, just that he hit it when the bows and the lake was at its prime, since then the lake has been hit hard and the food base is getting smaller and smaller and the bows arnt getting to the sizes they used to.

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by fishinggeek

Matt. i seen a show that was shot in alberta. they guys were catching 25inch bows like nothing and they caught one that would be pushing the 30inch mark, maybe 18-20lbs, but the show i seen was at least 5 years ago. couldn't beleive it myself.
One of our clients caught a 31lb rainbow trout from a bc lake that they were introduced to as diploids and the first 5-8 years after they introduced them to that lake they were catching up to 30lbs, i didn't believe it myself until he showed me pics. the fish were gorging on freshwater shrimp, you could scoop them out in bucket fulls he said. then after the trout started spawning and overtaking the lake the weights dropped, and now it is hard to catch a 20lber from there. He said they got 4 in the 30lb range in a 4 day trip.

Sean I remember Adam talking about that, I had completely forgotten about that.

Ok so my question is, how are these 30 pound fish in this guys spring fed pond not trophies? If this lake was stocked by the province and people were catching 30 pounders out of it, only pickerel pat would be arguing against these fish being trophies. Whats the difference between the province stocking a lake or someone stocking water on their own property? A stocked fish is a stocked fish.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

LOL, Im sorry I have a dugout with afew trout in it, I will never do it again LOLOL. You speak of real world fishing,, hmmm. I see your rookie posts and laugh my azz off non stop here. Your head is swelled up from all your supposed real world fishing experience, so hows this loud mouth, you take a bet for pink slips with boats? You even have one? Species and Ab body of water, weather doesnt matter,, Mr, Id let you pick. Now hows that for real world loud mouth. Got anything you wanna wager besides an old decrepid canoe rigged with quantum's on ugly sticks, and the latest technology in spoons and pickeral rigs?

Never under estimate the skill of the pickeral rig pro. You can not become a real world pickeral rig pro until you have mastered the fine art of dragging your pail down to the river/lake and casting the pickeral rig to precisely the right spot. This finely tuned presentation is not complete until you set the rod in the holder (or dirt) at just the right angle and hang your cowbell from the rod tip. Once you have caught at least 3 suckers, one walleye and one pike you become a real world pickeral rig pro II and receive the coveted PRO II badge. By this time your fishing knowledge is so vast and world renowned you will be able to answer any question on this forum regarding fishing. I am still working on my real world pickerel rig peewee status as I have not caught my third sucker yet, but am thinking that if I upgrade my spiderman setup, there is nothing I can not do.

[BeeGuy]

Where do I get my badge?

Or can I just get a decal for my bucket?

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Where do I get my badge?

Or can I just get a decal for my bucket?

how about a decal for your van?

[JFK]

Come on you guys some of these pickeral rig chuckers, tip up watchers are fishing Legends they have been doing it for 3 or 4 years you know