Calgary Herald - Guns taken by RCMP from High River Homes

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by shep dog

Namely, provisions of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, based on the authority of the fed/prov/muni governments. The state of emergency still exists.

Only the RCMP know why they removed the firearms. Anyone else who claims to is speculating, nothing more.

Try again.

First off....Firearms fall under criminal law as does the whole search and siezure thing and criminal law is the domain of the federal government. Provinces and municipalities have nothing to do with it.
That is in no small part why Quebec got turned down by the courts the other day.

Second... while certain provisions of the charter can be temporarily suspended... there is a decission making process that must occur and that process involves federal... elected officials.... not Barney Fife and his band of merry men at the local cop-shop.

As for the charter itself.... you can thank that piece of Liberal trickery for the loss of many of your rights and for most of the legal pitfalls that lawful owners must be wary of now.
Before that charter... there could be no crime where harm could not be demonstrated. Now... we have all sorts of law related to circumstances where no harm has occured to persons or property.

Those laws provided someone a convienient excuse to further infringe upon rights and enter homes looking for firearms that were not stored in a manner that satisfied them.

Now there exists the possability that people could be charged if a weapon was found out in the open or if one was found loaded.

Understanding that I do not support keeping loaded firearms in the home... I do not think it is the right of government to dictate how firearms will be kept in my home or yours either.
Nor do I believe it is right for anyone to undertake a warrantless search of your home unless there is a reasonable demonstrable and immediate threat to public safety or health... related to that search.
Even a warranted search is limited and must be specific.... they cannot search your underwear drawer and refrigerator looking for a stolen car.

Finally... if the crown does choose not to charge those owners whose weapons were found insecure or loaded... it is only because they know darn well that their eviddence was obtained through unlawful means.

A decission to not go ahead with charges should be a green light for anyone interested in a class action against the crown.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by northerntrapper

I was wondering why the 'authorities' haven't rode out onto the reserves and tried taking their guns? I'm guessing it wouldn't be easy pickings out there.

which is also why they do nothing in ON and QC about the tobacco and firearms smuggled in from the USA on a daily basis.

TBD

PS ... they had a run in with these boys back in '90 remember - OKA crisis

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Why do these threads always end up with gun owners scrapping it out amongst each other??

According to this plan, the RCMP are/were allowed to enter homes without warrant, but this is still underhanded. What I would like to know is if gun owners homes were specifically targetted.





According to the emergency managemet act of alberta - straight off the queens printer:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/E06P8.pdf


Powers of Minister in emergency
19
(1)
On the making of the declaration and for the duration of the state of emergency, the Minister may do all acts and take all necessary proceedings including the following:
(a) put into operation an emergency plan or program
(b) authorize or require a local authority to put into effect an emergency plan or program for the municipality;
(c) acquire or utilize any real or personal property considered necessary to prevent, combat or alleviate the effects of an emergency or disaster;
(d) authorize or require any qualified person to render aid of a type the person is qualified to provide;
(e) control or prohibit travel to or from any area of Alberta;
(f) provide for the restoration of essential facilities and the distribution of essential supplies and provide, maintain and co-ordinate emergency medical, welfare and other essential services in any part of Alberta;
(g) cause the evacuation of persons and the removal of livestock and personal property from any area of Alberta that is or may be affected by a disaster and make arrangements for the adequate care and protection of those persons or livestock and of the personal property;
(h) authorize the entry into any building or on any land, without warrant, by any person in the course of implementing an emergency plan or program;
(i) cause the demolition or removal of any trees, structures or crops if the demolition or removal is necessary or appropriate in order to reach the scene of a disaster, or to attempt to forestall its occurrence or to combat its progress;
(j) procure or fix prices for food, clothing, fuel, equipment, medical supplies, or other essential supplies and the use of any property, services, resources or equipment within any part of Alberta for the duration of the state of emergency;
(k) authorize the conscription of persons needed to meet an emergency.

And how exactly do those highlighted areas fit withuin this scenario?

Was the town under siege?
Was there a reasonable belief that combat would break out in High River a town emptied of almost all of its inhabitants?

Was in necessary to enter all of those homes to IMPLIMENT a disaster plan?

Clearly the answer is no.

There was no threat of combat and they did not need those properties or their contents.

[Smokey]

Nwxt time theres a need for an evacuation, people won't leave. Treated like criminals.

[silverdoctor]

state of emergency or emergency management plan.

Not saying I agree with it, don't like the idea of police invading peoples homes, but there are laws to protect the RCMP and we all know there won't be any ramifications from this against the RCMP.

It's unfortunate reality. I'm on your side here.

[mischief]

Wow a lot of people like exercising around here by jumping to a lot of conclusions with out any real evidence. Its like playoff time in the NHL and everyone is jumping on the I hate RCMP bandwagon.

Could what they are per summed to do be a little underhanded, yes. But it is also logical if the gun owners took their guns out of their safes and left them in plain view when they freely left their homes then the guns should have been rounded up, because the RCMP will never admit it but they cannot stop everyone that is going to try and do some looting in any situation and guns in plain sight are a tempting target that not many would pass up. Not to mention but now you also have armed intruders, which everyone can admit is a little more dangerous.

As I have, in my younger years, been misquoted in news articles and radio interviews several times to "make a better story" I will personally hold my opinion until after I hear a few stories about what happens when the gun owners go to get them back.

Hope everyone has a good long weekend, Happy Canada Day a little early. cheers.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by mischief

Wow a lot of people like exercising around here by jumping to a lot of conclusions with out any real evidence. Its like playoff time in the NHL and everyone is jumping on the I hate RCMP bandwagon.

Could what they are per summed to do be a little underhanded, yes. But it is also logical if the gun owners took their guns out of their safes and left them in plain view when they freely left their homes then the guns should have been rounded up, because the RCMP will never admit it but they cannot stop everyone that is going to try and do some looting in any situation and guns in plain sight are a tempting target that not many would pass up. Not to mention but now you also have armed intruders, which everyone can admit is a little more dangerous.

As I have, in my younger years, been misquoted in news articles and radio interviews several times to "make a better story" I will personally hold my opinion until after I hear a few stories about what happens when the gun owners go to get them back.

Hope everyone has a good long weekend, Happy Canada Day a little early. cheers.

Hard to say. If looting was problem or a concern then under the act

(g) cause the evacuation of persons and the removal of livestock and personal property from any area of Alberta that is or may be affected by a disaster and make arrangements for the adequate care and protection of those persons or livestock and of the personal property;

They could say they are helping keep them safe. Curious how the return of guns turns out.

Another question to ask is did you use the registry to see if any homes had guns then specifically went to those homes to retrieve them? Did they only remove guns not properly locked?

There are lots of unanswered questions and the RCMP is stupid if they don't address these quickly. I don't care that they were guns... just want to know what they were thinking and why.

[FishingMOM]

Harper has ordered the guns be returned quickly!

OTTAWA - The Prime Minister’s Office waded into a dispute Friday between residents of flood-ravaged High River and the RCMP over the seizure of firearms from homes in the evacuated Alberta town.


The Mounties said Thursday they had seized guns from homes in the flood zone, and put them in a safe place.


That angered residents of the town, who have been anxious to return to their homes to assess the flood damage.


An evacuation order for the town of about 13,000 residents is now into its ninth day.


The guns should be returned to their owners, said a spokesman for Prime Minister Stephen Harper.


“We expect that any firearms taken will be returned to their owners as soon as possible,” said press secretary Carl Vallee, who added that the Mounties should be dealing with more pressing matters.


“We believe the RCMP should focus on more important tasks such as protecting lives and private property,” said Vallee.


Critics were quick to complain that the Harper government should not be dictating how the Mounties should conduct their operations.


An RCMP official said any guns removed from homes were not properly stored. Police forced their way into several homes to look for flood victims, pets and any that might pose a threat to returning residents.


RCMP spokeswoman Const. Francine Hennelly said when officers entered homes to search for people, “if we identified any pets or hazards, we would respond accordingly.”


“We seized any firearms that were noted that were in plain view,” she said. “We seized what we saw that could potentially be a hazard.”


“Anything properly stored in gun lockers were left.”


When asked whether all of the guns should be returned, even if they were improperly stored or found to be illegal, Vallee referred questions to the Alberta government.


“In Alberta, the RCMP operate under the provincial government’s authority,” he said.

“Questions about particular operations should therefore be directed to the province.”


Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ur...#ixzz2XWqFXQwU

[6.5swedeforelk]

cbc(" ") radio giving good coverage on this critical issue.

No, wait, my mistake.

They're discussing gay marrage.

[Got Juice?]

I am suprised that there was no barbed wire strung around the town....it would have went well with the spike belts, RCMP, a couple German Shepards, and some searchlights...

We could have our very own concentration camp (tongue in cheek)

[KWO]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

cbc(" ") radio giving good coverage on this critical issue.

No, wait, my mistake.

They're discussing gay marrage.

Now, that was funny.

[Percher]

Appears Redfraud turned Alberta into a police/state!
She thinks High River needs 160 RCMP to keep law and order while police break into homes to confiscate firearms in a flash flood situation, duhhhhh!

[Olderangler]

As a former Police Officer, I can't believe the RCMP would do this, what were they thinking. If the guns in High River were so dangerous, what about Calgary where there are a lot more gangs, thieves etc. I think the RCMP are out of control.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by Olderangler

I think the RCMP are out of control.

Yes they are, and have been for several years now.

[Sundancefisher]

So how many...pets...did they rescue looking for...hazards?

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by Scotty P.

Good point! I guess if this is true the residents should have loaded everyone of their firearms and taken them with them during the evacuation. Heck they could hand out extra rifles to their neighbors even if they didn't have a valid firearms license cause after all the criminal code or any other democratic institutions don't apply in this situation, right?

Right

Bee has just declared Marshall Law and Anarchy for the rest of us. God bless his tiny soul.

Btw.....I luv it when ur on ur game oh great big daddy pesky.

[Ceilidh69]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

cbc(" ") radio giving good coverage on this critical issue.

No, wait, my mistake.

They're discussing gay marrage.

LMAO - that was a good one.

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by MtnGiant

Right

Bee has just declared Marshall Law and Anarchy for the rest of us. God bless his tiny soul.

Btw.....I luv it when ur on ur game oh great big daddy pesky.

You might be watching too much American TV, where the US Marshall rides into town to make things right.

In Canada, it's Martial Law. Martial, from Mars the God of War.

[midgetwaiter]

Here's a thought.

Let's suppose that government statements and eyewitness accounts like those made on CGN turn out to be true and all the RCMP did was pick up firearms that were out in the open. Then everybody gets them back, no issues.

If you were a non firearm owning voter and you see comments on Sun news or whatever full of wild paranoid speculation what would you think? RCMP officers taking a cutting torch to safes etc, etc.

We look like lunatics.

That's bad.

[Stik'em]

Is there a possibility that this is all being blown out of proportion by a libtard journalist (everyone on here complains about the media) that used the wrong words, SEIZED instead of SECURED?

How many ppl on this forum have their guns either in a rifle case or just leaned up in a closet behind a locked door, probably majority. Others have a safe, so perhaps the RCMP is securing weapons that would be easy for a looter to take. You all complain out the RCMPS incompetence (I am not disputing that) so they shouldn't be able to hold a cordon properly and therefore looters would be present.

As far as proof ownership, you all know your weapons serial numbers or at least have them on a memory card in a secure area. Well that would be proof enough, no theif is going to break into your house to take your serial number just to claim a rifle later.

I think rather then putting on the tinfoil hats and spinning like a top, wait to see when the gun owners go to claim their firearms back.

Stik'em

[Percher]

Originally Posted by CheeseBurger

Certain rights are revoked when a state of emergency is declared. Not certain which ones but that is the purpose behind declaring a state of emergency. They can get around certain laws. I'm not saying this in a bad way, it is a very useful tool, but it can easily be misused as well.

Probably another move by the Alberta CFO, backdoor ledgers and now using state of emergency laws to confiscate firearms due to a flash flood.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Why haven't the RCMP made a formal statement to clear the air?

LC

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Here's a thought.

Let's suppose that government statements and eyewitness accounts like those made on CGN turn out to be true and all the RCMP did was pick up firearms that were out in the open. Then everybody gets them back, no issues.

If you were a non firearm owning voter and you see comments on Sun news or whatever full of wild paranoid speculation what would you think? RCMP officers taking a cutting torch to safes etc, etc.

We look like lunatics.

That's bad.

Amen.
The boogie man is coming for the guns. Lol the thing every body over reacting missed is the fact if it was an orderd sweep they would have got all the guns in high river. Significant number could be five if none were expected. Snap, overreact, that's why he's called the "chump"

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by Stik'em

Is there a possibility that this is all being blown out of proportion by a libtard journalist (everyone on here complains about the media) that used the wrong words, SEIZED instead of SECURED?

How many ppl on this forum have their guns either in a rifle case or just leaned up in a closet behind a locked door, probably majority. Others have a safe, so perhaps the RCMP is securing weapons that would be easy for a looter to take. You all complain out the RCMPS incompetence (I am not disputing that) so they shouldn't be able to hold a cordon properly and therefore looters would be present.

As far as proof ownership, you all know your weapons serial numbers or at least have them on a memory card in a secure area. Well that would be proof enough, no theif is going to break into your house to take your serial number just to claim a rifle later.

I think rather then putting on the tinfoil hats and spinning like a top, wait to see when the gun owners go to claim their firearms back.

Stik'em

Umm, seriously? Seized or secured, the cops still removed them without due cause. How it is worded makes no difference. And I don't know about you, but I don't have my serial #'s memorised and I'd be surprised if many of the people affected do either.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Why haven't the RCMP made a formal statement to clear the air?

LC

Better question is why should they ? Think they have more pressing issues right now than a press conference..

[Got Juice?]

Discrimination... Let's use the PAL/RPAL as a base line profile to justify the search of a residence. If the resident has a license, the justification for the search is somehow germane to their mandate under a state of emergency??

Did they enter homes of people that did NOT hold a firearms license???

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Better question is why should they ? Think they have more pressing issues right now than a press conference..

A simple statement to clear the air and calm nerves would do a tonne of damage control no? Never said they need to hold a press conference.

LC

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by BobMarliesDonkey

Where does the law say you're long gun has to be in a locked container? If its unloaded, trigger locked and kept by your front door it would be legally stored as long as your ammunition is locked.

BMD

It was just a generalization... no point in picking fly crap out of pepper.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by MtnGiant

Right

Bee has just declared Marshall Law and Anarchy for the rest of us. God bless his tiny soul.

Btw.....I luv it when ur on ur game oh great big daddy pesky.

[elkhunter11]

Critics were quick to complain that the Harper government should not be dictating how the Mounties should conduct their operations.

Really? So they should have just allowed the CFOs to continue with their illegal back door registries? The RCMP(and apparently those critics) need to realize, that the government makes the laws, and that the police are only employees, hired to enforce those laws. The government has the authority to direct the RCMP as they see fit.