Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 05-01-2018, 09:21 AM
Dean2's Avatar
Dean2 Dean2 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 14,972
Default

For all those without access here are the SAAMI min and max specs.

Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 05-01-2018, 09:59 PM
Faststeel Faststeel is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,580
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Barrels are burned out by shooting, and observing the results, keyboards are worn out posting theories and calculations, and posting drawings.
Interesting theory from a man with 30,000 posts........?
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 05-01-2018, 10:25 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faststeel View Post
Interesting theory from a man with 30,000 posts........?
A retired man that has a lot of time to both shoot and post.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-02-2018, 08:34 AM
gtr gtr is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faststeel View Post
Interesting theory from a man with 30,000 posts........?
Some struggle with perceived knowledge. A huge difference between what they think they know, and what they actually know.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-02-2018, 08:42 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
Some struggle with perceived knowledge. A huge difference between what they think they know, and what they actually know.
So given that this is a thread about loading for the 17 hornet, what experience do you have loading for the 17 hornet?
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 05-02-2018, 11:24 AM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rimbey, AB
Posts: 671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So given that this is a thread about loading for the 17 hornet, what experience do you have loading for the 17 hornet?
Unfortunately this thread was about loading for the 17 HH and a lot of good information was exchanged until you have again turned it into a Laverne Bashing exercise. Yes you instigated it again by posting this, [COLOR="Red"][The assumption that all manufacturers make all rifles with identical chambers, throats,etc, is nonsenseB], which is not true as I pointed out and a direct jab at me. I am surprised that you didn't claim that I stated that "all manufacturers make chambers and throats exactly the same" when I actually said that they are made to Saami or designer specs within the tolerances specified.

As for me stating that your 20 Tac load would not fit in your magazine I will concede that I said that if you post a link to the thread where I specifically stated that. If you don't post it I will assume that I never stated that and suggest that you had better take a long look in the mirror. However that is likely a stupid suggestion, on my part, as you are likely spending a lot of time admiring yourself as it is.

I would likely be offended by your suggestion that I would lie to cover my mistake if you were not just plain ridiculous. I would post some of the hate mail that you sent me, on the other forum you mentioned, where you joined the bunch there that did not like hearing the truth whenever I posted it. However I already had a caution for doing that, as you well know, and I don't believe you have that type of backing on this forum.

As for me playing the victim I feel that I have actually been victorious in that I likely saved a few people from buying a 20 Tactical on the assumption that your RL 10 X load pushing a 39 Bk would be safe because you and Todd Kindler said so. Perhaps I saved one or two from bodily harm, by daring to endure your wrath, and presenting the fact that it would defiantly not be safe under sustained fire on a hot day in the gopher patch. Like Todd Kindler, Hornady were guilty of over selling their creation by selling unsafe Factory ammo and posting loads that were not safe under all conditions. Their engineer did not take kindly to my warnings and people are still confused, when trying to safely handload for the 17 HH, nearly 5 years later. By the way I did mention the work that I did back then that proved that the initial loadings, and load recommendations for 1680, were too hot and that AA 2200 would be a better fit. I also considered giving this cartridge a second chance when Hodgdon posted loads for BLC2 a while back so yes I have considerable experience loading for the 17 HH.

In closing I would like to mention that, of the 50+ loads I have developed that shoot under or just over/under 1/2 MOA in my 20 EXTREME, all of them are "safe in all rifles". Further, all of them fit in a 2.26" Saami speced magazine, when seated to the lands, and all but the 55 Berger will fit in a 222 Sami specked magazine when seated to the lands. The real losers in all this are those who chose to do 20 Vartargs and 20Tacticals rather than take me up on my offer to help them build a 20 EXTREME. However this may all change as a fellow, from the other forum you mentioned, wondered where I was back then when he needed me. His emails to me read like this "Great talking to you yesterday and I thoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to gather information on your journey towards perfection in creating the 20 Extreme. It's amazing what one can accomplish with passion, desire and an attitude that failure is not acceptable. Congratulations on a job well done.

Laverne

Find below Kevin Weaver's address and as per our conversation last night, please send him the 20 Extreme dies and your reamer. Also include if available, the go gauge, a fire formed case and a note to him as to whatever you see appropriate on your reamer's chamber etc. He should ship reamer and go gauge back to me with dies and rifle and I will return them to you. I will confirm that with him when I ship out the rifle/barrel stuff on Monday.

Thank you for perfecting this cartridge and for making your knowledge and equipment available to me. I truly appreciate what you've done for varmint shooters in general. Be and stay well and we'll be in touch. Jim

Weaver Rifles, 16850 Sage Creek Rd. Peyton CO 80831"


Hornady's Lead Tec has expressed an interest in doing a build and agreed to make dies available to individuals at $180.00 US if I give him the word. If Hornady express interest in adding the 20 EXTREME to their lineup of cartridges I will make sure they do not make the same mistakes as they did with the launch of the 17 HH.

It is my sincere hope that we can go forward on this forum, with this and other threads, without any more of your stupid comments aimed solely at furthering your continued vendetta against me for telling the truth which apparently makes your choice of 20 caliber cartridges seem inferior.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:35 PM
YoteStopper's Avatar
YoteStopper YoteStopper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 825
Wink

Come on guys...the sun's out, gophers are up and they don't care what chambering you use on them.
__________________
Fight for the right to be free, never be owned.
-Manowar
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 05-02-2018, 03:25 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lclund1946 View Post
Unfortunately this thread was about loading for the 17 HH and a lot of good information was exchanged until you have again turned it into a Laverne Bashing exercise. Yes you instigated it again by posting this, [COLOR="Red"][The assumption that all manufacturers make all rifles with identical chambers, throats,etc, is nonsenseB], which is not true as I pointed out and a direct jab at me. I am surprised that you didn't claim that I stated that "all manufacturers make chambers and throats exactly the same" when I actually said that they are made to Saami or designer specs within the tolerances specified.

As for me stating that your 20 Tac load would not fit in your magazine I will concede that I said that if you post a link to the thread where I specifically stated that. If you don't post it I will assume that I never stated that and suggest that you had better take a long look in the mirror. However that is likely a stupid suggestion, on my part, as you are likely spending a lot of time admiring yourself as it is.

I would likely be offended by your suggestion that I would lie to cover my mistake if you were not just plain ridiculous. I would post some of the hate mail that you sent me, on the other forum you mentioned, where you joined the bunch there that did not like hearing the truth whenever I posted it. However I already had a caution for doing that, as you well know, and I don't believe you have that type of backing on this forum.

As for me playing the victim I feel that I have actually been victorious in that I likely saved a few people from buying a 20 Tactical on the assumption that your RL 10 X load pushing a 39 Bk would be safe because you and Todd Kindler said so. Perhaps I saved one or two from bodily harm, by daring to endure your wrath, and presenting the fact that it would defiantly not be safe under sustained fire on a hot day in the gopher patch. Like Todd Kindler, Hornady were guilty of over selling their creation by selling unsafe Factory ammo and posting loads that were not safe under all conditions. Their engineer did not take kindly to my warnings and people are still confused, when trying to safely handload for the 17 HH, nearly 5 years later. By the way I did mention the work that I did back then that proved that the initial loadings, and load recommendations for 1680, were too hot and that AA 2200 would be a better fit. I also considered giving this cartridge a second chance when Hodgdon posted loads for BLC2 a while back so yes I have considerable experience loading for the 17 HH.

In closing I would like to mention that, of the 50+ loads I have developed that shoot under or just over/under 1/2 MOA in my 20 EXTREME, all of them are "safe in all rifles". Further, all of them fit in a 2.26" Saami speced magazine, when seated to the lands, and all but the 55 Berger will fit in a 222 Sami specked magazine when seated to the lands. The real losers in all this are those who chose to do 20 Vartargs and 20Tacticals rather than take me up on my offer to help them build a 20 EXTREME. However this may all change as a fellow, from the other forum you mentioned, wondered where I was back then when he needed me. His emails to me read like this "Great talking to you yesterday and I thoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to gather information on your journey towards perfection in creating the 20 Extreme. It's amazing what one can accomplish with passion, desire and an attitude that failure is not acceptable. Congratulations on a job well done.

Laverne

Find below Kevin Weaver's address and as per our conversation last night, please send him the 20 Extreme dies and your reamer. Also include if available, the go gauge, a fire formed case and a note to him as to whatever you see appropriate on your reamer's chamber etc. He should ship reamer and go gauge back to me with dies and rifle and I will return them to you. I will confirm that with him when I ship out the rifle/barrel stuff on Monday.

Thank you for perfecting this cartridge and for making your knowledge and equipment available to me. I truly appreciate what you've done for varmint shooters in general. Be and stay well and we'll be in touch. Jim

Weaver Rifles, 16850 Sage Creek Rd. Peyton CO 80831"


Hornady's Lead Tec has expressed an interest in doing a build and agreed to make dies available to individuals at $180.00 US if I give him the word. If Hornady express interest in adding the 20 EXTREME to their lineup of cartridges I will make sure they do not make the same mistakes as they did with the launch of the 17 HH.

It is my sincere hope that we can go forward on this forum, with this and other threads, without any more of your stupid comments aimed solely at furthering your continued vendetta against me for telling the truth which apparently makes your choice of 20 caliber cartridges seem inferior.
You can't post hate mail that doesn't exist, your memory and your imagination are getting the best of you.
As for Todd Kindler he has designed several cartridges, and firearms companies are actually producing factory rifles chambered in his cartridges and tool and die companies are producing dies for them as well, that are being carried in stock by major retailers. Obviously he is doing something right to earn that type of following. And yet I haven't heard of anyone suing him because the data he posts is unsafe.

As for the 17 hornet, I have owned three rifles in that chambering, and I have tested several powders, and posted most of the results. I post my recorded velocities and my accuracy achieved, because that is what most people want to see. I don't bother going into theory and posting cartridge drawings that most people ignore anyways.

As for you once again portraying yourself as a victim, it didn't work on the other forums, because the mods saw right through the act, which is why AO is one of the last places that you can still post.a. I doubt that the AO mods are going to fall for that act either.

As was previously posted, the sun is out, and I am soon heading out to join another AO member to do some shooting, no point in wasting a nice day.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 05-02-2018, 06:58 PM
gtr gtr is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,529
Default

Glad your getting out and doing some shooting. I think you will find that its more rewarding than using the keyboard. Google is your friend, but is not as rewarding as actual hands on experience.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 05-02-2018, 07:00 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
Glad your getting out and doing some shooting. I think you will find that its more rewarding than using the keyboard. Google is your friend, but is not as rewarding as actual hands on experience.
So you have no experience loading for the 17 hornet?
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 05-02-2018, 07:19 PM
gtr gtr is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So you have no experience loading for the 17 hornet?
I have reloaded the 22 Hornet since the mid eighties. The 17 Hornet for about three years, and two thousand rounds. But this is not about what I do , it's all about you.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 05-02-2018, 08:16 PM
southernman southernman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fort Mc Murray/ Bell Block New Zealand.
Posts: 859
Default

Elkhunter II and Iclund1946.

I am not impressed with either of you two idiots, yet once again, the two of you have derailed, an otherwise good thread, with you shallow, petty squabbling,

You should both hang your heads in shame.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 05-03-2018, 10:38 AM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rimbey, AB
Posts: 671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by southernman View Post
Elkhunter II and Iclund1946.

I am not impressed with either of you two idiots, yet once again, the two of you have derailed, an otherwise good thread, with you shallow, petty squabbling,

You should both hang your heads in shame.
You are right and as I posted I hope that this and other threads will not be disrupted again. To that end elkhunterII has been permanently placed on my ignore list. It is just too hard for me to ignore being called a liar, etc. when it has gone on for years and continues to go on. Again I am sorry and want to let everyone know that I am not the person that he has tried to make me out to be.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 05-03-2018, 01:38 PM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lclund1946 View Post
You are right and as I posted I hope that this and other threads will not be disrupted again. To that end elkhunterII has been permanently placed on my ignore list. It is just too hard for me to ignore being called a liar, etc. when it has gone on for years and continues to go on. Again I am sorry and want to let everyone know that I am not the person that he has tried to make me out to be.
ENOUGH already LET GO and move on !!
No need to try and explain away anything just stop .
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 05-03-2018, 09:48 PM
6.5 shooter's Avatar
6.5 shooter 6.5 shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,205
Default

From a good thread to a ****ing match...buy a .17 hornet reload for it, go shoot stuff.....
__________________
Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:14 PM
amosfella amosfella is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,221
Default

I tested the loads using the WC735 powder. Without even trying, it shot a 5 shot group in just under an inch. It was about 1.25" to the left of the 20 gr factory hornady loads.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:52 AM
amosfella amosfella is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
I tested the loads using the WC735 powder. Without even trying, it shot a 5 shot group in just under an inch. It was about 1.25" to the left of the 20 gr factory hornady loads.
It's notable that the neck of the case had a perfect sine wave going around it. At the powder charge used, in some cases, it was a VERY compressed load.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 07-06-2018, 04:07 PM
6.5 shooter's Avatar
6.5 shooter 6.5 shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,205
Default

Up date on Hornady dies:

Less then 300 rounds and ran into troubles AGAIN.

De-primer pin is to short to consistently de prime the cases 100% of the time most cases I had to double stroke the press to un seat the primers. Even when lower to touch the rim of the brass ( Something I have NEVER had to do)

Neck ex-pander button worked fine for about 100 cases (must be made of cheap metal) as I needed to expand the remainder of the cases with my custom built neck flaring tool so added an extra step

Fortunately I had my spare RCBS dies waiting in the wings.....500 rounds not a problem, no double, triple strokes, no ex-pander issues, no bullet seating issues.

Might be just my bad luck but never again Hornady.
__________________
Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.