Alberta Grazing Lease Issues.....

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Hey everyone,
On an upcoming podcast, John and I are going to be diving into a topic that many Alberta hunters find frustrating.... our access system for Grazing leases, and the issues around it. We’ve heard it called “cowboy welfare” before, due to all the perks these lease owners get that much of the public isn’t aware of. If anyone has any information or personal experience, we’d love to hear about it. If there are any links that state what the lease owners are entitled to, we’d also like to get as many facts as possible.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Call the grazing lease association where you can get facts.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Call the grazing lease association where you can get facts.

That's a great idea. I'd like to hear from that side of the issue too.

Because from the hunter's side of things, it seems like the lease holders have the ability to deny access because they don't feel like letting you on. Or they think enough people already have access, or they just don't call a person back.

Seems like a broken system where grazing lease holders can treat the crown land they rent like private property, even though Albertan's have been given the right to access this land for recreational purposes.

If I'm wrong, someone tell me.

John.

[58thecat]

Enjoy the conversation.....entitled and privilidged will spew a few words but after 5 minutes you will find thier credibility is that of the turds...

[KyleSS]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

That's a great idea. I'd like to hear from that side of the issue too.

Because from the hunter's side of things, it seems like the lease holders have the ability to deny access because they don't feel like letting you on. Or they think enough people already have access, or they just don't call a person back.

Seems like a broken system where grazing lease holders can treat the crown land they rent like private property, even though Albertan's have been given the right to access this land for recreational purposes.

If I'm wrong, someone tell me.

John.

Are you going to discuss the multiple "recreational users" that go on with out permission each year because they pay taxes and feel "it's their land"?

Or the users that pressure elk through fences hard enough that they break wire and snap posts off and then turn around and just walk away?

What about the users that completely disregard access conditions, cut fence, and then drive on with motorized vehicles?

Will you be discussing that side of things as well?

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by KyleSS

Are you going to discuss the multiple "recreational users" that go on with out permission each year because they pay taxes and feel "it's their land"?

Or the users that pressure elk through fences hard enough that they break wire and snap posts off and then turn around and just walk away?

What about the users that completely disregard access conditions, cut fence, and then drive on with motorized vehicles?

Will you be discussing that side of things as well?

It sounds like you are saying that you or someone that you know has had or has heard of some bad experiences so you don’t want people using your crown land?
The other side could say that they have heard or know of a few lease holders that abuse the privelage of grazing cattle on crown land.

[KyleSS]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

It sounds like you are saying that you or someone that you know has had or has heard of some bad experiences so you don’t want people using your crown land?

I'm just saying that both sides need to be discussed for it to be a valid conversation. Other wise its just a biased topic with a predetermined outcome.

This year we had 40+ recreational users use our 1/2 section of grazing lease; I have no problem with people using it as long as the access conditions are followed.

[Deer Hunter]

https://www.albertalandinstitute.ca/...ocuments/14872


https://www.reddeeradvocate.com/life...ds-decreasing/

RIP Bob.



https://ashfm.ca/hall-of-fame-honour...t/scammell-bob

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

https://www.albertalandinstitute.ca/...ocuments/14872


https://www.reddeeradvocate.com/life...ds-decreasing/

RIP Bob.



https://ashfm.ca/hall-of-fame-honour...t/scammell-bob

Thank you very much, we’ll read all of this.
Mike

[NCC]

Referring to grazing leases as “cowboy welfare” demonstrates that you are completely biased and don’t know WTF you’re talking about. I leased 6 quarters of land (bid on at a public auction), bought a dozer, spent all winter clearing fence lines, worked my guts out fencing through the muskeg and beaver dams, burned a bunch more deisel discing down the fence lines, and then over the next few years spent >$50 000 on clearing brush, discing, grass seed, burning piles, re-piling, etc. You may want to do a little researching before putting all lease holders in the same basket. There are some that inherited 10 000 acres of lease and are making a bundle off the surface rent, but most lease holders work hard to maintain the productivity and receive no surface rent.

Also, grazing leases are traded on the open market and sell for what ever the market will bear. I don’t know why everyone is so against that.

Coal companies, oil companies, camp grounds, golf courses, ski resorts, sawmills, etc are all making money of crown land and I don’t hear any of them referred to as welfare recipients.

I gave my lease to my brother, in case anyone is wondering how many millions of dollars I made off my investment.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by NCC

Referring to grazing leases as “cowboy welfare” demonstrates that you are completely biased and don’t know WTF you’re talking about. I leased 6 quarters of land (bid on at a public auction), bought a dozer, spent all winter clearing fence lines, worked my guts out fencing through the muskeg and beaver dams, burned a bunch more deisel discing down the fence lines, and then over the next few years spent >$50 000 on clearing brush, discing, grass seed, burning piles, re-piling, etc. You may want to do a little researching before putting all lease holders in the same basket. There are some that inherited 10 000 acres of lease and are making a bundle off the surface rent, but most lease holders work hard to maintain the productivity and receive no surface rent.

Also, grazing leases are traded on the open market and sell for what ever the market will bear. I don’t know why everyone is so against that.

Coal companies, oil companies, camp grounds, golf courses, ski resorts, sawmills, etc are all making money of crown land and I don’t hear any of them referred to as welfare recipients.

I gave my lease to my brother, in case anyone is wondering how many millions of dollars I made off my investment.

Obviously, the original poster has an agenda. I hunt a grazing lease regularly. Funny, the beer cans and crap left behind by "responsible users".

Grizz

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by NCC

Referring to grazing leases as “cowboy welfare” demonstrates that you are completely biased and don’t know WTF you’re talking about.

Really, just because you don't like the moniker doesn't indicate it is biased or comes from ignorance. Your hurt feelings don't mean squat,suck it up princess.

Lease holders are stealing money from the residents of Alberta. What would you prefer we call them,thieves?

Your ilk is trying to protect what you are getting for free, under the guise of grazing grass, which is the only thing you are entitled to.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Hey everyone,
On an upcoming podcast, John and I are going to be diving into a topic that many Alberta hunters find frustrating.... our access system for Grazing leases, and the issues around it. We’ve heard it called “cowboy welfare” before, due to all the perks these lease owners get that much of the public isn’t aware of. If anyone has any information or personal experience, we’d love to hear about it. If there are any links that state what the lease owners are entitled to, we’d also like to get as many facts as possible.

So you're calling it cowboy welfare without knowing the facts?

Step 1. Insult the farmers, Step 2 ask for facts.


Please direct me to your podcast, I would love to listen to this unbiased discussion.

[gloszz]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

So you're calling it cowboy welfare without knowing the facts?

Step 1. Insult the farmers, Step 2 ask for facts.


Please direct me to your podcast, I would love to listen to this unbiased discussion.

Quotation marks would mean that they did not use their own words, but in quotation.

"each of a set of punctuation marks, single (‘ ’) or double (“ ”), used either to mark the beginning and end of a title or quoted passage, or to indicate that a word or phrase is regarded as slang or jargon or is being discussed rather than used within the sentence."

References

Quotation Marks: Rules How to Use Them Correctly. (2017, April 07). Retrieved from https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/

From now on, I will be citing and adding a reference to everything I write on this forum because we have a lot of butt hurt people that get offended by too many things instead of working. If you have time to nit pick at every single thing on this forum, you have too much time.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by gloszz

Quotation marks would mean that they did not use their own words, but in quotation.

"each of a set of punctuation marks, single (‘ ’) or double (“ ”), used either to mark the beginning and end of a title or quoted passage, or to indicate that a word or phrase is regarded as slang or jargon or is being discussed rather than used within the sentence."

References

Quotation Marks: Rules How to Use Them Correctly. (2017, April 07). Retrieved from https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/

From now on, I will be citing and adding a reference to everything I write on this forum because we have a lot of butt hurt people that get offended by too many things instead of working. If you have time to nit pick at every single thing on this forum, you have too much time.

Thanks for your completely offtopic post.

[cowboy1949]

part of my beef was unlevel playing field for other producers. I paid $30 AUM(private land) where lease holder paid I think approx. $2 AUM. I think new price to be voted on is $2.53? Lease holder got mineral surface rights which often paid for lease. My example would be Trap(Flat) creek west of Longview. Oil company paid for road on existing trail to get rig in. Now locked gate with no access at all.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by cowboy1949

part of my beef was unlevel playing field for other producers. I paid $30 AUM(private land) where lease holder paid I think approx. $2 AUM. I think new price to be voted on is $2.53? Lease holder got mineral surface rights which often paid for lease. My example would be Trap(Flat) creek west of Longview. Oil company paid for road on existing trail to get rig in. Now locked gate with no access at all.

Flat Creek is an obvious abuse of process, all too common in that neck of the woods. Used to be an old access road that went all the way around to Sullivan Creek. The lease road was built about 45 years ago and the lock went on soon after.

Grizz

[NCC]

Originally Posted by cowboy1949

part of my beef was unlevel playing field for other producers. I paid $30 AUM(private land) where lease holder paid I think approx. $2 AUM. I think new price to be voted on is $2.53? Lease holder got mineral surface rights which often paid for lease. My example would be Trap(Flat) creek west of Longview. Oil company paid for road on existing trail to get rig in. Now locked gate with no access at all.

When you pay $30/aum, do you pay for the initial investment, interest, fencing, discing, grass seed, breaking, rolling, weed spraying, etc?

Figure out what everything else costs on top of the $2.50/aum and you'll quickly get to $30/aum. I did the math and I don't have a grazing lease any more.

Some leaseholders got some oil money. Why does everyone begrudge them for being good businessmen or just getting lucky. No different than an oil company executive drilling a boomer well and making millions off of our natural resources.

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Hey everyone,
On an upcoming podcast, John and I are going to be diving into a topic that many Alberta hunters find frustrating.... our access system for Grazing leases, and the issues around it. We’ve heard it called “cowboy welfare” before, due to all the perks these lease owners get that much of the public isn’t aware of. If anyone has any information or personal experience, we’d love to hear about it. If there are any links that state what the lease owners are entitled to, we’d also like to get as many facts as possible.

Worst case I observed was a half section lease that I could find no evidence of grazing,ever. There were several oil leases and pipelines, lease roads were mowed better and more frequently than my lawn. Leaseholder constructed a nice tower stand for hunting complete with bait pile, game cam et al. His wife was rather vocal about me hunting the lease,quoting the 200 yard rule, on a quarter section of land. They live right beside the lease. If ever there was a case of Cowboy Welfare, this is it.

[Joe Black]

but remember, there are those that will proclaim that it is only demanding hunters that abuse the system

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Worst case I observed was a half section lease that I could find no evidence of grazing,ever. There were several oil leases and pipelines, lease roads were mowed better and more frequently than my lawn. Leaseholder constructed a nice tower stand for hunting complete with bait pile, game cam et al. His wife was rather vocal about me hunting the lease,quoting the 200 yard rule, on a quarter section of land. They live right beside the lease. If ever there was a case of Cowboy Welfare, this is it.

Did you report it? There’s no sense complaining, if a law is broken make the call.

[walking buffalo]

A natural introduction to the topic would be to cover some of the recent history of grazing leases and hunting and why we have the current legislation.



A very brief review of this fight where grazing lease holders sued to have the authority to eliminate hunting from these crown lands.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Unste...d.-a0160030180


Wayne Patton deserves a monument as the savior of Alberta hunting on Public land grazing leases.
Without his efforts, crown grazing lease holders today would be able to deny all hunting on these Public Lands.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

A natural introduction to the topic would be to cover some of the recent history of grazing leases and hunting and why we have the current legislation.



A very brief review of this fight where grazing lease holders sued to have the authority to eliminate hunting from these crown lands.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Unste...d.-a0160030180


Wayne Patton deserves a monument as the savior of Alberta hunting on Public land grazing leases.
Without his efforts, crown grazing lease holders today would be able to deny all hunting on these Public Lands.

Thank you for sending the link to that article- we'll read that one as well.
Mike

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Worst case I observed was a half section lease that I could find no evidence of grazing,ever. There were several oil leases and pipelines, lease roads were mowed better and more frequently than my lawn. Leaseholder constructed a nice tower stand for hunting complete with bait pile, game cam et al. His wife was rather vocal about me hunting the lease,quoting the 200 yard rule, on a quarter section of land. They live right beside the lease. If ever there was a case of Cowboy Welfare, this is it.

Sounds like a case of illegal hunting and breached lease holder conditions to me. A cowboy would have had cows out there, not a stand and a pile of bait.

What did the officials say when you called in to report it?

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Hey everyone,
On an upcoming podcast, John and I are going to be diving into a topic that many Alberta hunters find frustrating.... our access system for Grazing leases, and the issues around it. We’ve heard it called “cowboy welfare” before, due to all the perks these lease owners get that much of the public isn’t aware of. If anyone has any information or personal experience, we’d love to hear about it. If there are any links that state what the lease owners are entitled to, we’d also like to get as many facts as possible.

Then there is this leaseee, who not only doesn't graze the lease but walked a dozer through the lease creating some improvement. His ten foot swath meanders through a variety of wetlands,spawning beds and raparian areas.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Then there is this leaseee, who not only doesn't graze the lease but walked a dozer through the lease creating some improvement. His ten foot swath meanders through a variety of wetlands,spawning beds and raparian areas.

sounds like the improvements the poor leasee's get saddled with by taking the lease(having to clear shooting lanes and access points to retrieve game easier)

[landowner]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

sounds like the improvements the poor leasee's get saddled with by taking the lease(having to clear shooting lanes and access points to retrieve game easier)

Or ... could it be the start of a new cross fence ?

[Joe Black]

nope.

definitely shooting lane.

[NCC]

Again, nothing to do with "cowboy welfare".

Instead of wanking about it on here, turn the guy in. Unauthorized clearing is a big no no. Bait piles under tree stands - I'm pretty sure a few pics would illicit a response from F and W if Public Lands isn't interested. That would be more productive than insulting farmers and ranchers.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Then there is this leaseee, who not only doesn't graze the lease but walked a dozer through the lease creating some improvement. His ten foot swath meanders through a variety of wetlands,spawning beds and raparian areas.

How do you know he didn’t have permission from the crown to make those improvements?