Alberta Grazing Lease Issues.....

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by trapperdodge

I hunt in the US every year. In the western states there is a lot of public land. Arizona for example is probably 80%.

The ranchers who graze cattle have 'rights ' to the grass. They cannot deny access to anyone. Hunters walk right through cattle without incid8.

Originally Posted by Northern Bob

I moved from Alberta to Manitoba in October. The leased land access here is much simpler and the way it should be everywhere.
Word for word from the Manitoba Hunting Regulations:

"Leased Crown Land
Most leased crown land is open to hunting. However, there may be limited areas of leased crown lands which are intensively used, such as livestock corrals, feeding areas, and building sites, where hunting is prohibited. These areas will be identified by approved signs provided by Manitoba Agriculture. Permission is not required to hunt on leased provincial Crown land, which is not posted in this manner. It is recommended that hunters notify leaseholders before entry. Please do not damage trails, drive across fields, or leave gates open."

Late season grazing is mentioned in one other part of the regulations. It just says that hunters should be aware that some grazing leases may have livestock on them during hunting season. It doesn't change the free access.

Is it publicly owned land after all. Leaseholders are only renting access for their cattle to graze. If you don't like those terms, don't lease it.

Sounds like AZ and MB got it right!
AZ for example as posted,hunters regularly walk through cattle to hunt without incident,yet if you listened to an Alberta rancher you’d think that hunters shoot cattle on a regular basis.I highly doubt that ANY cattle are ever mistakenly shot by hunters in Alberta and the very few handful that do get shot is on by purpose by cattle poachers or somebody with a grudge or just plain drunk idiots.

Bottom line it’s Crown land...full stop.
Leaseholders can go on and on all they want about their maintenance costs and hard work and improvements etc etc blah blah blah ....nobody is denying that you work hard and have expenses..but at the end of the day you bought that lease knowing full well that their was a catch,and that catch is you must allow public access.If you want total control of the land you work,buy deeded land and stop complaining about hunters excercising their right to access public land.
Don’t get me wrong,I’ve found most leaseholders I’ve contacted to be pretty good guys and reasonBle and accommodating,it’s the ones that treat their leases like their own private hunting grounds and/or have “arrangements” with outfitters,or tell you there’s already too many people hunting their”in their opinion”......(yea like their entire family)that cause the hard feelings and poor relations between leaseholders and hunters.Thanks for your “concern for my safety” 🙄,but I’ll make my own decision as to wether theirs already “too many hunters” on a parcel of PUBLIC LAND and hunt elsewhere if that’s the case.
Manitoba system sounds fantastic,no reason why that wouldn’t work in AB without all this “gonna shoot my cattle” nonsense and having to contact individuals to hunt on on Crown land at their discretion and whims.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by West O'5

Sounds like AZ and MB got it right!
AZ for example as posted,hunters regularly walk through cattle to hunt without incident,yet if you listened to an Alberta rancher you’d think that hunters shoot cattle on a regular basis.I highly doubt that ANY cattle are ever mistakenly shot by hunters in Alberta and the very few handful that do get shot is on by purpose by cattle poachers or somebody with a grudge or just plain drunk idiots.

Bottom line it’s Crown land...full stop.
Leaseholders can go on and on all they want about their maintenance costs and hard work and improvements etc etc blah blah blah ....nobody is denying that you work hard and have expenses..but at the end of the day you bought that lease knowing full well that their was a catch,and that catch is you must allow public access.If you want total control of the land you work,buy deeded land and stop complaining about hunters excercising their right to access public land.
Don’t get me wrong,I’ve found most leaseholders I’ve contacted to be pretty good guys and reasonBle and accommodating,it’s the ones that treat their leases like their own private hunting grounds and/or have “arrangements” with outfitters,or tell you there’s already too many people hunting their(yea like their entire family)that cause the hard feelings and poor relations between leaseholders and hunters.
Manitoba system sounds fantastic,no reason why that wouldn’t work in AB without all this “gonna shoot my cattle” nonsense and having to contact individuals to hunt on on Crown land at their discretion.

Excellent post. On all counts.

[ehrgeiz]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Excellent post. On all counts.

Except for the use of the term “full stop”, I cannot abide!

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by ehrgeiz

Except for the use of the term “full stop”, I cannot abide!

and the "bought the lease", it's a lease.

[bushbug]

Most of the people who gripe about lease land are to lazy to walk anywhere and can only hunt out of a vehicle.Whether it be crown land or not .

[MugEye]

Originally Posted by bushbug

Most of the people who gripe about lease land are to lazy to walk anywhere and can only hunt out of a vehicle.Whether it be crown land or not .

Well said

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

and the "bought the lease", it's a lease.

They purchase the lease from previous leaseholder....so yea,they buy the lease.

[SnipeHunter]

A great thread despite some misplaced passions here and there.

First, I have to say I believe that the freedom to roam for recreation is a universal human right. Restrictions on those rights can of course be reasonable.

The current system as it is works to relieve a lot of conflict. It's not terrible for the leaseholder or the hunter. I recently used it to gain access to several GRLs near Calgary. Yes, it was hard to get some lease holders on the phone. Yes, some were openly hostile to someone respectfully asking for access to hunt. But, yes I arranged plenty of access from all the lease holders I talked to. You just have to be respectful & show you understand the area, boundaries & geography, care of fences, etc. I never asked about driving on private roads...never expected that to be available. Lease holders are busy so if they didn't return my emails or telephone messages I'll give the the benefit of the doubt (except for those that have the telephone number to nowhere). Hopefully these lease holders that I've made contact with will become friends. I do intend to try to grow those relationships - because that's just a good habit.

I would not advocate a free for all. I think what does make sense is an update to the technology. Rather than directly contacting the lease holder - I don't see why it can't be posted online when recreational access is available and when it is not. They already post GRL specific conditions. For the lease holder to update the status or add a few notes as they go about their activities must be less annoying than the telephone calls. Recreational users could also register when they will be on GRLs w/ license plate #, etc. That way you could actually know when there are other hunters or other users on the land...good stuff to know.

I live in the city now but grew up on the farm. My father owned over 2000 acres but never felt that it was his right to deny people from accessing it for recreation so long as they were reasonable and did not destroy crops, fences, roads and land. People who drive 4x4 trucks up muddy country roads for fun should face criminal charges, imho. But respectful on-foot hunting should not be impeded except by the reasonable restrictions on roads, dwellings, etc.

The freedom to roam was challenged in the UK and won. Many countries like Finland have greater freedoms for citizens than we have here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120327...d=25603&lan=en

It would be interesting to know if this has ever been challenged in the Canadian courts like in the UK.

[Jays toyz]

Originally Posted by SnipeHunter

A great thread despite some misplaced passions here and there.

First, I have to say I believe that the freedom to roam for recreation is a universal human right. Restrictions on those rights can of course be reasonable.

The current system as it is works to relieve a lot of conflict. It's not terrible for the leaseholder or the hunter. I recently used it to gain access to several GRLs near Calgary. Yes, it was hard to get some lease holders on the phone. Yes, some were openly hostile to someone respectfully asking for access to hunt. But, yes I arranged plenty of access from all the lease holders I talked to. You just have to be respectful & show you understand the area, boundaries & geography, care of fences, etc. I never asked about driving on private roads...never expected that to be available. Lease holders are busy so if they didn't return my emails or telephone messages I'll give the the benefit of the doubt (except for those that have the telephone number to nowhere). Hopefully these lease holders that I've made contact with will become friends. I do intend to try to grow those relationships - because that's just a good habit.

I would not advocate a free for all. I think what does make sense is an update to the technology. Rather than directly contacting the lease holder - I don't see why it can't be posted online when recreational access is available and when it is not. They already post GRL specific conditions. For the lease holder to update the status or add a few notes as they go about their activities must be less annoying than the telephone calls. Recreational users could also register when they will be on GRLs w/ license plate #, etc. That way you could actually know when there are other hunters or other users on the land...good stuff to know.

I live in the city now but grew up on the farm. My father owned over 2000 acres but never felt that it was his right to deny people from accessing it for recreation so long as they were reasonable and did not destroy crops, fences, roads and land. People who drive 4x4 trucks up muddy country roads for fun should face criminal charges, imho. But respectful on-foot hunting should not be impeded except by the reasonable restrictions on roads, dwellings, etc.

The freedom to roam was challenged in the UK and won. Many countries like Finland have greater freedoms for citizens than we have here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120327...d=25603&lan=en

It would be interesting to know if this has ever been challenged in the Canadian courts like in the UK.

Very well said.

[hillbillyreefer]

We need property rights in this country.

[MugEye]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

We need property rights in this country.

Would you care to elaborate. I’m curious what you’re getting at

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by MugEye

Would you care to elaborate. I’m curious what you’re getting at

I think he means as citizens of Canada on crown land. Permission granted by her majesty the queen.

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by SnipeHunter

A great thread despite some misplaced passions here and there.

First, I have to say I believe that the freedom to roam for recreation is a universal human right. Restrictions on those rights can of course be reasonable.

The current system as it is works to relieve a lot of conflict. It's not terrible for the leaseholder or the hunter. I recently used it to gain access to several GRLs near Calgary. Yes, it was hard to get some lease holders on the phone. Yes, some were openly hostile to someone respectfully asking for access to hunt. But, yes I arranged plenty of access from all the lease holders I talked to. You just have to be respectful & show you understand the area, boundaries & geography, care of fences, etc. I never asked about driving on private roads...never expected that to be available. Lease holders are busy so if they didn't return my emails or telephone messages I'll give the the benefit of the doubt (except for those that have the telephone number to nowhere). Hopefully these lease holders that I've made contact with will become friends. I do intend to try to grow those relationships - because that's just a good habit.

I would not advocate a free for all. I think what does make sense is an update to the technology. Rather than directly contacting the lease holder - I don't see why it can't be posted online when recreational access is available and when it is not. They already post GRL specific conditions. For the lease holder to update the status or add a few notes as they go about their activities must be less annoying than the telephone calls. Recreational users could also register when they will be on GRLs w/ license plate #, etc. That way you could actually know when there are other hunters or other users on the land...good stuff to know.

I live in the city now but grew up on the farm. My father owned over 2000 acres but never felt that it was his right to deny people from accessing it for recreation so long as they were reasonable and did not destroy crops, fences, roads and land. People who drive 4x4 trucks up muddy country roads for fun should face criminal charges, imho. But respectful on-foot hunting should not be impeded except by the reasonable restrictions on roads, dwellings, etc.

The freedom to roam was challenged in the UK and won. Many countries like Finland have greater freedoms for citizens than we have here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120327...d=25603&lan=en

It would be interesting to know if this has ever been challenged in the Canadian courts like in the UK.

Excellent post, I've wondered the same thing about Freedom to Roam in Canada

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

I think he means as citizens of Canada on crown land. Permission granted by her majesty the queen.

I think his signature line says it all,pretty clear what side of the fence he’s on.

[last minute]

Originally Posted by West O'5

I think his signature line says it all,pretty clear what side of the fence he’s on.

Never paid attention to that thanks for pointing that out

[last minute]

Originally Posted by bushbug

Most of the people who gripe about lease land are to lazy to walk anywhere and can only hunt out of a vehicle.Whether it be crown land or not .

oh yeah play the blame game bravo.

[BorealBucks]

Originally Posted by bushbug

Most of the people who gripe about lease land are to lazy to walk anywhere and can only hunt out of a vehicle.Whether it be crown land or not .

I drove 6km thru crown land in the bush with my atv in -20 to access a lease on foot & shot a deer 5 minutes after climbing a tree with my self climber. 30 minute atv ride there.

Lease crown land should be identical to how farmed crown land works.

Cultivation Permit: A Cultivation Permit gives the leaseholder exclusive rights to cultivate or crop an area but non-exclusive occupation rights. The area is treated as Vacant Public Land (public access) when no development is occurring or is likely to occur within 90 days.

If development is occurring ie. planting/ growing crop then: So long as you are not affecting a crop when it is on the land then you can enter.

No contact is required year round & no contact info is provided as they do not have a say on access.

Two buddies of mine shot two whitetail bucks & we saw about 20 bucks in 5 days on a cultivation permit full of hay & hay bales this past hunting season. Didnt have to ask for permission, used a 700 yard by 300 yard field full of baled & non baled hay to our advantage. We walked in to not scare deer but there was a full on open road if we wanted to drive.

Grazing leases should be the same definition as a Cultivation Permit.

[Jetboatn]

Grazing leaves have their place

[mtnwhitefish]

Looks like there is enough opinions for a podcast. When is it coming out?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by mtnwhitefish

Looks like there is enough opinions for a podcast. When is it coming out?

They haven’t had a podcast in 2 years

[buckman]

I remember when the "New" access rules first came into place.I was cutting meat for a Rancher west of Calgary.There were a couple of his neighbors there furious about "Their" land being opened to the public,especially for hunting.
Swore they would still control it. Guess what they still do,sure you may get on but its a very difficult process,so much so that I simply gave up.

Some of these land/leaseholders have close friends or family on their land and use it as an excuse to say its booked. Sometimes they say its booked and the parking/access area is empty of parked trucks. They just tell you the hunters never showed up.

Then there the issue of oil and gas companies paying them royalties for the privilege of extracting our oil from our land,pure crap. I have been told the revenue from that often more than covers the cost of the rent of the lease.