Status Natives

[roper1]

Still the overarching question. Should an agreement made Hundred plus years ago not be re-visited? Of course!!! It is just barely relevant today. SmokinJoe your comment of Indian 'right to hunt ' and others 'privilege to hunt' just so smacks of reverse discrimination when you complain of racism. I am not personally hung up on native trophy/sustenance hunting as I am the entire Native right to hunt w very little regulation .There are just so many updated agreements out there. Japan/US post WW2, Canada/Britain Canadian Charter of rights & Freedoms, Ongoing additions to the 5 original US amendments to the constitution, Secession of eastern European countries out of the Soviet bloc, the Berlin wall coming down, etc, ad nauseum, etc. What makes anyone think the treaties are not due for an update. Possibly 135year old way of thinking?

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

No offence intended but do you hunt Bee? It's not like shopping, some people have a hard time finding an animal to harvest, some have a hard time pulling the trigger on a legal animal for whatever reason. I have passed on several animals this year because they were not big enough to feed my family for the winter and I have been hunting since September first, I'm restricted to using only a bow and arrow until it opens for rifle. When you only get one tag you have to make it count. If I don't find one by November 30 my chances are done for the year.

Imagine all the beef you could buy with the money your wasting

[SmokinJoe]

Well roper.... Sit down and pour yourself a drink, this might take a while, better yet, come out to my reserve and I will show you why these 150 year old laws have to be with held, miniature 3rd world country's within Canada, you think these people wanted to be like this?

Anyhow I'm done with this.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Imagine all the beef you could buy with the money your wasting

And what, sit at home and twiddle my thumbs, maybe take up knitting?

I prefer moose and elk to beef, plus it's healthier. My wife grew up on wild meat, and also prefers it over beef. The kids eat what we cook. Just because I'm white doesn't mean hunting isn't a tradition that has been handed down to me, and is being handed down to my sons. Hunting and fishing is as much a part of our life if not more a part of our life than most modern day treaty Indian families.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

They also include the provision for the government of Canada to impose regulations on that hunting and fishing.

shall have right to pursue their avocations of hunting and fishing throughout the tract surrendered as hereinbefore described, subject to such regulations as may from time to time be made by Her Government of Her Dominion of Canada,

It is interesting that there were no game laws in Alberta until 1907. Years after the treaties were signed. Game laws were introduced to curtail overhunting by settlers for the most part.
Now, game laws are a provincial regulation, not federal, except for migratory waterfowl and endangered species.

An odd thing... the Alberta countryside was land surveyed before the treaties were signed. This had to be part of the plan so tract boundaries could be defined.

[NCC]

I know a father and son who in one year shot a grizzly bear, 200" mule deer, two billy goats, two trophy sheep off a mine, two trophy antelope and a couple of cats behind hounds under the guise of subsistence hunting. I don't know how anyone educated enough to log onto this forum can argue that this sort of activity is sustainable.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Well roper.... Sit down and pour yourself a drink, this might take a while, better yet, come out to my reserve and I will show you why these 150 year old laws have to be with held, miniature 3rd world country's within Canada, you think these people wanted to be like this?

Anyhow I'm done with this.

Nobody is making those people be like that, other than themselves. Like the chief in Osoyoos said "If your life sucks, it's because you suck". Your people do not need special privledges or handouts, there are several successful treaty Indians. They only need to do what all successful people do, set a goal and work for it until you achieve it.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Nobody is making those people be like that, other than themselves. Like the chief in Osoyoos said "If your life sucks, it's because you suck". Your people do not need special privledges or handouts, there are several successful treaty Indians. They only need to do what all successful people do, set a goal and work for it until you achieve it.

Kurt, I gather you didn't bag yourself an animal as you're still ranting about the Treaties. The solution my friend is for you to go talk to your MP and seek the change you're looking for or as elkhunter is promoting you're local MLA and get the Alberta legislature to undertake the very things you're looking for.

Good luck......

[elkhunter11]

Well roper.... Sit down and pour yourself a drink, this might take a while, better yet, come out to my reserve and I will show you why these 150 year old laws have to be with held, miniature 3rd world country's within Canada, you think these people wanted to be like this?

I know plenty of native people that could be like that, but instead they choose to work , and make a very good living for themselves. Native people applying for plant jobs up here get priority over anyone else, and if they genuinely want to work, the companies give them every opportunity to hold a high paying job, even if their education , and qualifications aren't as good as the other applicants.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by roper1

Still the overarching question. Should an agreement made Hundred plus years ago not be re-visited? Of course!!! It is just barely relevant today. SmokinJoe your comment of Indian 'right to hunt ' and others 'privilege to hunt' just so smacks of reverse discrimination when you complain of racism. I am not personally hung up on native trophy/sustenance hunting as I am the entire Native right to hunt w very little regulation .There are just so many updated agreements out there. Japan/US post WW2, Canada/Britain Canadian Charter of rights & Freedoms, Ongoing additions to the 5 original US amendments to the constitution, Secession of eastern European countries out of the Soviet bloc, the Berlin wall coming down, etc, ad nauseum, etc. What makes anyone think the treaties are not due for an update. Possibly 135year old way of thinking?

I'm all for opening up the Treaties because there are a lot of issues I want addressed as well, like ceding title to all the land, I think I'll lobby for ceding of lets say 35 percent. The rest I want back to do with as we please. I'll also lobby that we Indians can only hunt on the non ceded land. you can have the rest.

[bchap22]

Its flat out BS that these treaty rights exist in today's world. I know there are lots of idiot whites that poach and a lot never get caught but i also know for a fact and have seen it first hand what natives do and the waste they leave behind. You can't sit there and tell me that natives now a days have any more right to hunt and fish when ever they damn well feel like than i do. They have grown up with every opportunity to prosper in today's society. I have an endless amount of respect for the game i hunt and all wildlife for that matter. Would me and my buddies go out and shoot a truck load of elk or moose or deer just for the hell of it, absolutely not. I shot an elk last year and shared it with three other families and still have elk left over and i ate it at least once or twice a week. I don't have a problem with natives not buying tags but definitely agree with monitoring their harvests. Go shoot a doe, cow, or anything that doesn't have horns or antlers cause last time i checked they don't taste that great. There are so many things wrong with the treaty rights that it does need to be re-vamped but its not gonna happen on this site as you can see. Equal rights and equal opportunity for everyone should be the standard across the board.
JMO

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I know plenty of native people that could be like that, but instead they choose to work , and make a very good living for themselves. Native people applying for plant jobs up here get priority over anyone else, and if they genuinely want to work, the companies give them every opportunity to hold a high paying job, even if their education , and qualifications aren't as good as the other applicants.

And when they do get those jobs you still whine and complain that they are out there still exercising their Rights.

[elkhunter11]

And when they do get those jobs you still whine and complain that they are out there still exercising their Rights.

I appreciate the fact that they are earning a living for themselves, but
if they are making a six figure salary, living in an $800,000 home and are driving an $80,000 truck, with a $15,000 atv in the back, they certainly aren't living or hunting like their ancestors did, so why should they not be regulated?.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I'm all for opening up the Treaties because there are a lot of issues I want addressed as well, like ceding title to all the land, I think I'll lobby for ceding of lets say 35 percent. The rest I want back to do with as we please. I'll also lobby that we Indians can only hunt on the non ceded land. you can have the rest.

Aw! But I wanted to lobby for more homestead land to be released from public lands first.

[trophyboy]

It amazes me we have given the indians billions upon billions of dollars, maybe it's in the trillions now I don't know, but can one of the indians on here please explain to me why their race is still in such disarray. I've heard the"It's the white man's fault!" argument for far too long so please can someone in the know give me the real answer.

I would be embarassed to sit there and rape and pillage the taxpayer for money only to turnaround and blame them for their problems. It is disgraceful to say the very least. Get over it already indians, get to work and contribute to society like the rest of us.

[bchap22]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

And when they do get those jobs you still whine and complain that they are out there still exercising their Rights.

This is a ridiculous statement and if you honestly think this is the way the majority thinks then you have been miss informed. I have a couple of friends that are full native and they do very well for themselves and provide for their families. I have never once for a second been jealous of the fact that they are doing so well or whine to others about it. Personally i respect them more because they have the balls not to be a freeloader and go out and make a life for themselves. They do hunt and understand the aspect of game management and what buying tags actually does for the management of our wildlife.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I'm all for opening up the Treaties because there are a lot of issues I want addressed as well, like ceding title to all the land, I think I'll lobby for ceding of lets say 35 percent. The rest I want back to do with as we please. I'll also lobby that we Indians can only hunt on the non ceded land. you can have the rest.

Didn't get my moose, passed on 2 that were legal but too small. If I was allowed to kill more than one a year I would have taken one tho.

Let me ask you something, if we were to be invaded, which army would defend Canada?

The more you say it, the more I agree, maybe all non treaty outdoorsmen should take it up with their local MLA and stress the fact that these 135yr old treaties are absurd.

If treaty Indians own the rights to Canada, maybe we should stop wasting money on a Canadian military and let them protect what they claim is theirs.

I totally understand you have special rights and privledges above all other Canadians, no matter what they have done for this country, and you don't want that to end, I wouldn't either. Still don't make it right.

I hope I see the day the treaty rights are revisited, when all Canadians get equal rights and privledges.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I'm all for opening up the Treaties because there are a lot of issues I want addressed as well, like ceding title to all the land, I think I'll lobby for ceding of lets say 35 percent. The rest I want back to do with as we please. I'll also lobby that we Indians can only hunt on the non ceded land. you can have the rest.

Still the challenge facing us. You want the start point of negotitiation to be 135 years ago with the realities of then vs the realities of today. You appear hung up on your ancestors ceding the land they felt they didn't need ,weren't using, couldn't hold/defend, or flat sold/traded for whatever gain they felt was to their advantage then. This has been systematically augmented throughout the intervening time by all Canadians yet my Indian friends & neighbors think they should still be allowed to 'subsistence' hunt because it is their right. It bugs me that I keep trying to put myself in your shoes and all I can come up with is 'this is the treaty deal' therefore you are entitled

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by trophyboy

It amazes me we have given the indians billions upon billions of dollars, maybe it's in the trillions now I don't know, but can one of the indians on here please explain to me why their race is still in such disarray. I've heard the"It's the white man's fault!" argument for far too long so please can someone in the know give me the real answer.

I would be embarassed to sit there and rape and pillage the taxpayer for money only to turnaround and blame them for their problems. It is disgraceful to say the very least. Get over it already indians, get to work and contribute to society like the rest of us.

I suggest you read up on this country's history, if you're serious about seeking the truth. Look in your church's archives, government archives, you'll find the answers you're looking for.

It is quite apparent nothing we say is going to convince you and others otherwise, so seek the truth and it'll set you free....

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by roper1

Still the challenge facing us. You want the start point of negotitiation to be 135 years ago with the realities of then vs the realities of today. You appear hung up on your ancestors ceding the land they felt they didn't need ,weren't using, couldn't hold/defend, or flat sold/traded for whatever gain they felt was to their advantage then. This has been systematically augmented throughout the intervening time by all Canadians yet my Indian friends & neighbors think they should still be allowed to 'subsistence' hunt because it is their right. It bugs me that I keep trying to put myself in your shoes and all I can come up with is 'this is the treaty deal' therefore you are entitled

Well entitlement goes both ways, the governments think they're entitled to act the way they do with the resources of this land, which they acquired through the Treaties. That is where they derive ownership of this land, nowhere else.

[Speckle55]

Hey I hope everyone realizes that any Albertan can Hunt year round for subsistence if they qualify which was North of HI way 16 but as of 2007 is any where in the Province and if SRD is allowing tags to be given out then they are saying that there is enough for subsistence hunting so what the problem guys

Quote

December 14, 2007
Changes made to Subsistence Hunting Licence
Edmonton... It is now easier for Albertans who rely on wild meat for sustenance to apply for a special hunting licence for moose, elk or deer. The Subsistence Hunting Licence is available to qualified applicants free of charge from any Fish and Wildlife District office.
Although this licence is not new, the provincial government has made the following changes to make it available to more Albertans.
• Licences may now be used anywhere in the province, not just north of Highway 16.
• Licences are now available all year.
• Licence holders may take moose, elk or deer based on local game populations.
In addition, the $5 fee for a Domestic Fishing Licence has been dropped. This licence can now be obtained free of charge by eligible applicants

we killed/hit 16300 ungulates in Alberta with vehicle's in 2008 and 13500 were deer and it cost us 250 million in Insurance claims


Food for Thought

David

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Didn't get my moose, passed on 2 that were legal but too small. If I was allowed to kill more than one a year I would have taken one tho.

Let me ask you something, if we were to be invaded, which army would defend Canada?

The more you say it, the more I agree, maybe all non treaty outdoorsmen should take it up with their local MLA and stress the fact that these 135yr old treaties are absurd.

If treaty Indians own the rights to Canada, maybe we should stop wasting money on a Canadian military and let them protect what they claim is theirs.

I totally understand you have special rights and privledges above all other Canadians, no matter what they have done for this country, and you don't want that to end, I wouldn't either. Still don't make it right.

I hope I see the day the treaty rights are revisited, when all Canadians get equal rights and privledges.

I'm not yanking your chain when I suggest this. Its you're only recourse.

If we were to get invaded we'd be screwed. Who could we beat???? The state of Texas could probably kick our *****....

[elkhunter11]

I hope I see the day the treaty rights are revisited, when all Canadians get equal rights and privledges.

We have a government that continues to grant more and more special rights and privileges to groups based on race or religion, so it is extremely unlikely that all Canadians will ever have equal rights and privileges. The only exception would be if civilization as we know it came to an end, and it became every man for himself, then we would all be equal, because nobody would have any rights.

December 14, 2007
Changes made to Subsistence Hunting Licence
Edmonton... It is now easier for Albertans who rely on wild meat for sustenance to apply for a special hunting licence for moose, elk or deer. The Subsistence Hunting Licence is available to qualified applicants free of charge from any Fish and Wildlife District office.
Although this licence is not new, the provincial government has made the following changes to make it available to more Albertans.
• Licences may now be used anywhere in the province, not just north of Highway 16.
• Licences are now available all year.
• Licence holders may take moose, elk or deer based on local game populations.
In addition, the $5 fee for a Domestic Fishing Licence has been dropped. This licence can now be obtained free of charge by eligible applicants

Given that licenses are required, only a few species are allowed, and the game allowed to be harvested is dependent on game populations, this has very little if anything in common with the native hunting rights.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

I'm not yanking your chain when I suggest this. Its you're only recourse.

If we were to get invaded we'd be screwed. Who could we beat???? The state of Texas could probably kick our *****....

Depends, who do you mean by "we"?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

We have a government that continues to grant more and more special rights and privileges to groups based on race or religion, so it is extremely unlikely that all Canadians will ever have equal rights and privileges. The only exception would be if civilization as we know it came to an end, and it became every man for himself, then we would all be equal, because nobody would have any rights.

Well, in that case I guess I could hold off on seeing that day!

Way to buzz kill Elk.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Depends, who do you mean by "we"?

Sorry Canada, as you had asked....

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Well, in that case I guess I could hold off on seeing that day!

Way to buzz kill Elk.

FYI, prior to Canada having its own constitution, circa 1982. The Minister of Indian Affairs could have with one stroke of the pen done away with any and all Treaty Rights in this country. That's how much power he had.

Section 35 of the Constitution protects existing Treaty and Aboriginal Rights. So any opening up of the Treaties means revisiting the Constitution, I don't see that happening anytime soon. No government wants to open up that can of worms.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Sorry Canada, as you had asked....

I had to ask who you meant because your sense of "we" and my sense of "we" are different.

[elkhunter11]

Section 35 of the Constitution protects existing Treaty and Aboriginal Rights. So any opening up of the Treaties means revisiting the Constitution, I don't see that happening anytime soon. No government wants to open up that can of worms.

Our constitution is pretty much a joke, in that it doesn't make all Canadians equal under the law, but you are correct, it's something that no government wants to reopen.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

FYI, prior to Canada having its own constitution, circa 1982. The Minister of Indian Affairs could have with one stroke of the pen done away with any and all Treaty Rights in this country. That's how much power he had.

Section 35 of the Constitution protects existing Treaty and Aboriginal Rights. So any opening up of the Treaties means revisiting the Constitution, I don't see that happening anytime soon. No government wants to open up that can of worms.

Lucky for you hey?