Considering switching from vanish fluorocarbon to braid

[calgarygringo]

Maybe you need to spend more time trying to catch fish than catch rocks and trees.

Joking aside Power Pro Super Slick is a great line to use. I am not sure why anyone would need to use 30lb test on it around here other than maybe for big sturgeon down south but for us local walleye/pike fisherman 10-15 lb test is really all you should need. As mentioned if setting a hook is an issue also have a look at the rod you are using. This is another area that people totally miss.
I use both sizes of slick with the 10lb on my lighter setup and 15 on my pike focused line. Tie the flouro on to the end as well especially for the more finicky fish. Pike I don't so much unless they appear to be spooky especially in winter when you can see them on the camera but always for walleye, whites trout etc.

This stuff is really hard to break and we catch pike quite regular past the lb strength of both and never an issue. If you are worried about knots slipping it is time to learn a new one or be a better tier. When I was in the business I used to warn people and tell them that if your knots slip it is the fisherman not the line so important to learn other knots if you have been a mono guy your whole life.

Listen to walleyedude as he fishes tournaments regularly and has quite a selection of gear he uses and tests so he know what he is talking about good and bad both.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

for us local walleye/pike fisherman 10-15 lb test is really all you should need.

I have 10 lb on one reel, 20 lb on my other one. If I didn't keep them on specific rods it would be hard to tell them apart...

When I am walleye fishing with crankbaits I use 20-25 lb fluoro leader(to give me a slight chance if/when I hook a pike) and I am dragging $10-20 worth of lures/leader. When pike fishing it is not uncommon for me to have $20-30 tied onto my main line(titanium leader). If using 20 or even 30 lb line(which I do use on my pike rod) helps me save even 1 more leader/lure which over a season, which means hundreds of fish and 1000s, of casts then it has earned the ever so slightly worse casting distance(which is still amazing compared to mono/fluoro).

As for walleyedude, I had replied but see it is gone...

To each their own, but the advantages of going with lighter line - thinner diameter, better casting, better lure action, more line capacity and more supple line are more than worth it in my opinion.

The difference in suppleness and lure action between 10 and 20 lb braid is practically non existent imo. Both are super soft and small diameter and the action is greater affected by the leader you choose to use and even the knots used. Heck even 50 lb smooth braids are still super supple and will have little if any affect on a lure.

Line capacity is only necessary if you are using small reels for example shimano sized 500 or 1000. I prefer a 2500 series for pike/walleye so have plenty of room for 20 lb braid and if anything holds too much 10 lb braid costing me extra unnecessary money.

Casting is the only significant difference imo and only when using light lures. When using heavier lures the wind resistance of the braid becomes less important and distance is usually more dependent on the rod/reel used and the anglers ability to cast(especially true with baitcasters).

It all comes down to your type of fishing and more importantly I guess personal preference which braid to choose. The only situation I give 10 lb braid a significant advantage over 20 lb is for casting very light(1/16-3/16 oz) lures long distances which I never do walleye or pike fishing so I personally see no need for it.

I have had 30 lb braid mysteriously break on me for no apparent reason, it happens if you fish enough... Similarly I have broke off often enough using my 10 lb line for trout, goldeye and walleye. No way on earth I would use 10 lb line for pike and in fact I think it is borderline unethical to do so as you will break off on more fish(especially if not an already experienced angler, remember guys who are the ones that ask and read this stuff).

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Jet

And really, all this is about how you fish and what you fish for, and that determines what line and test lb you'll use.

One thing I forgot to mention was this.

I continuously fish new lakes and when you don't know the lake or river you are much more prone to snags as you don't know what the bottom looks like, you don't know about the sunken tree or the sunken cable or the rough rocks or whatever it may be. This is knowledge learned over the first few trips to a lake and something some more experienced guys now take for granted but I almost guarantee all of us when learning how to fish lost many more lures for this reason along with not knowing how to properly retrieve lures, how to more effectively scout locations and not having the fancy side imaging fish finders etc. Most of us have years if not decades of experience on our side, but most reading these threads looking for information do not.

[Pike4Dayzz]

I am one of those people that worship braid.
I can pull out weeds and sticks with tackle on them no problem. Trees? No problem.
I have no problem with spectra power pro 20 pound and dollar store leaders (I am a very frugal fisher)
12 pound walleye and 9 pound pike are a breeze.

Anyway, I will quit ranting.

Try the switch

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by RavYak

No way on earth I would use 10 lb line for pike and in fact I think it is borderline unethical to do so as you will break off on more fish(especially if not an already experienced angler, remember guys who are the ones that ask and read this stuff).

If people have decided for themselves that the potential costs in lost fish or lost tackle don't outweigh the benefits, that's fine, I don't think anyone is going to argue with them. I know I won't.

But don't get on your high horse and play the "unethical" card...

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

But don't get on your high horse and play the "unethical" card...

Unlike with walleye there is no argument to use light line for pike imo. You don't use small light lures, you have to use a heavy fluoro or a metal leader, you should be using a 2500 series shimano or equivalent reel and you can cast plenty far with 20 or 30 lb line.

You should only use 25-30% of your line strength when setting drag. For those that don't know why it is because your drag changes based on how much line you have out(more line out the higher the drag reason being when you set your drag you are actually setting a torque not a force, as the distance between the spool and your line decreases the force must increase in order to overcome the torque). Also no reel is perfect and they all take time to react to a strike especially when using braid(unlike mono which will absorb some of this force by stretching). Your reel might be set at 5 lbs of drag but during a hard strike line tension could easily reach 10 lbs before the reel catches up.

With 10 lb line that means you should not set your drag above 2.5-3 lbs. Just testing my rods I use for pike and the lighter duty one is at 2 lbs and my regular pike rod was 3 both at full spool so probably closer to 2.5 and 3.5 when casted out. I also always leave my drag a bit loose and then bump it up if I hook a big fish so 5-6 lbs of drag would not be uncommon when fighting decent pike. If you test your equipment make sure you do so while on the rod as you will be surprised how much extra drag the friction of your line on the rod guides creates.

Simply put 10 lb line is not strong enough for big pike. Not only because as you can see you are at the minimum flirting with the breaking strength of your line with your drag settings but also because you don't have the strength when a decent pike runs you into the weeds or around a submerged tree/pipe/obstacle etc. You also don't have the abrasion resistance when your line is rubbing on submerged rocks, trees etc. Braid has poor abrasion resistance, smooth braids like power pro slick are even worse and the lighter braids are far worse because the strands used are so small. Power pro has 8 strands, nick one of them on 10 lb line and your line is now only 8.75 lbs, 2 and you are down to 7.5 lbs. This is why most tournament bass fishermen switch their light braids out before every tournament as it really doesn't take that long before a guy starts to notice fraying(especially if you are using cheaper rods with rough guides).

So long story short yes I do consider using light 10-15 lb line for pike borderine unethical. There are a number of reasons not to use it and no real reasons to support using it and if/when it fails it can have a detrimental affect on the fish...

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Simply put 10 lb line is not strong enough for big pike.

There's a lot of big pike that end up in nets or the inside of a boat that would disagree with you...

That being said, if I'm targeting strictly big pike in weedy or snaggy conditions, I'd tend to agree, and I would probably go heavier on my entire setup. I'm pretty sure I've said that in a previous post.

Regardless, your ethics are your own and you're welcome to them, but they are ONLY your own.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

There's a lot of big pike that end up in nets or the inside of a boat that would disagree with you...

That being said, if I'm targeting strictly big pike in weedy or snaggy conditions, I'd tend to agree, and I would probably go heavier on my entire setup. I'm pretty sure I've said that in a previous post.

And lots of big pike(and small pike) break off due to light line and leaders. Your point?

There are lots of sturgeon also caught on light line and pickeral rigs, that doesn't mean it is ethical or wise to fish for them using that gear...

And yes earlier you did agree that you would use 20 or even 30 lb, glad you agree...

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

If I were specifically targeting big pike in heavy weed cover, I'd move up to 20, maybe even 30 lb braid

The only thing I would add is that you don't need to target big pike for it to make sense. Almost every water body with pike has the odd big pike and the ones with few big pike are more fragile then the ones with many of them. It is always best to be prepared if/when that big fish bites.

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Regardless, your ethics are your own and you're welcome to them, but they are ONLY your own.

I always clearly state that it is my opinion and as I have done here I give reasoning behind it in the hope that others will see the logic and follow suit...

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Your point?

My point is a simple one when it comes to braid.

You can use aircraft cable if that's your preference, it makes no difference to me, but it's neither required, nor somehow more "ethical".

P.S.

Some actual data on line breaking strength, not just speculation and scratch book math.

http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/4linetesting.htm

10lb Power Pro Super Slick = 25-26lb actual breaking strength.
20lb Power Pro Super Slick = 35-43lb actual breaking strength

10lb Suffix 832 = 28-30lb actual breaking strength.
20lb Suffix 832 = 41-42lb actual breaking strength.

[calgarygringo]

So you are really going to try to convince me Rapala actually makes a better product than Shimano? That is a tough one for me to believe even for you to admit that.

[huntsfurfish]

I guess its unethical of me to be fishing in water that has pike in it.

I frequently use 3 - 10 lb (mostly in 6-10 range) super lines and mono lines in waters that contain pike and some hogs as well. Usually targeting walleye and sometimes perch. Have landed some large pike on those weights of line.

If I was targeting large pike or pike in general the heavy stuff then out comes the heavy gear(20lb mono and 40 superlines).

Most people dont go into the heavy stuff so 8 - 15 pound is more than enough for pretty much all but the situations mentioned in above paragraph.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Jet

3lb test and hog pike. Um, maybe your definition of a hog is different than mine.

Trolling again?

Or just reading issues?


I shouldnt say but Hog to you is probably pike over 3 pounds.


edit: I shouldnt feed the troll.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Jet

No, I don't try to catch pike on 3 lb test. I agree with RavYak on that one, it's unethical IMHO, particularly if you're talking > 20lb pike. I wouldn't consider it for the small ones either.

Nice deflection, definitely your strong suit.

Please read my post again. Post 43 in case you missed it.


Darn, and I said I wouldnt feed the troll.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Jet

Reread your own thread, you say you fish 3lb-10lb in waters containing hog pike, and have caught on those large pike on those line.

It still stands. Have you or have you not caught large pike on 3lb test? How many times, and what do you define as large?

And yes, to me it's a fluke if you happen to reel in a 20lb pike on 3lb test and not break off, and you would need to play it out real long, which to me is unethical.

Strange how you accuse people of trolling when people disagree with you.

I know a troller when I see one.

You are great at picking something out of context and turninig it in your own way, to your reasoning. Deflections are common.

Use to work with a guy like you. Sad days for all.lol

[huntsfurfish]

Never mind, its obvious you dont get it.

[fishnfoo]

Originally Posted by RavYak

And that is the reason I switched from suffix to power pro.

X2