Bow hunting - Ethics question

[Spartikus]

Was talking to a hunting buddy about this and wanted to hear some other thoughts on this. Inevitably, bow hunting you will run into a time when you make a non-ideal shot on an animal and injure it but it may not be an immediately mortal kill shot. What is the right thing to do if you keep tracking the animal but you can't get close enough for a follow up bow shot?

Is it ever legal to finish the animal with a rifle from range to stop it from suffering?

Anyone ever had to deal with a situation like this with F&W?

What is the right thing to do ethically?

I can't help but feel if I had taken the shot and seriously injured an animal but not mortally wounded it and I track if for 6 hours the right thing to do is to put it out of it's suffering but I just can't see how that would be even remotely close to legal or how F&W would be able to view that in any way other than poaching out of season with a rifle..

Thoughts?

*and popcorn* Thanks friends

[Passthru]

If it was a bad shot I would leave and come back the next morning to start tracking, assuming it was shot in the evening. Give it lots of time to expire. Stumbling after it for a follow up shot will kick its adrenaline up and push it further. When that happens you may never find the animal if it gets pushed far enough.

[wildwoods]

I say give it your BEST effort to get it down with the bow. There's no way a rifle should be implemented as way too many poachers would shoot first and arrow second.
Part of the life cycle friend. Not all of em are gonna drop in their tracks. It sucks but is part of the risks we take as conscientious apex predators (with opposable thumbs-thanks lefty)

[Slicktricker]

Allowing rifle would make it to easy for poachers to "recove" lost game shouldn't even be a question allowing it. Don't take stupid shots and won't happen.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Was talking to a hunting buddy about this and wanted to hear some other thoughts on this. Inevitably, bow hunting you will run into a time when you make a non-ideal shot on an animal and injure it but it may not be an immediately mortal kill shot. What is the right thing to do if you keep tracking the animal but you can't get close enough for a follow up bow shot?

Is it ever legal to finish the animal with a rifle from range to stop it from suffering?

Anyone ever had to deal with a situation like this with F&W?

What is the right thing to do ethically?

I can't help but feel if I had taken the shot and seriously injured an animal but not mortally wounded it and I track if for 6 hours the right thing to do is to put it out of it's suffering but I just can't see how that would be even remotely close to legal or how F&W would be able to view that in any way other than poaching out of season with a rifle..

Thoughts?

*and popcorn* Thanks friends

Nope...unless it's a legal weapon you can't "finish" it with something else..like was mentioned it opens a GIANT loophole.

Believe it or not a lot of hunting is tracking and reading blood and analyzing the shot....it's not called shooting or shopping for good reason

LC

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Was talking to a hunting buddy about this and wanted to hear some other thoughts on this. Inevitably, bow hunting you will run into a time when you make a non-ideal shot on an animal and injure it but it may not be an immediately mortal kill shot. What is the right thing to do if you keep tracking the animal but you can't get close enough for a follow up bow shot?

Is it ever legal to finish the animal with a rifle from range to stop it from suffering?

Anyone ever had to deal with a situation like this with F&W?

What is the right thing to do ethically?

I can't help but feel if I had taken the shot and seriously injured an animal but not mortally wounded it and I track if for 6 hours the right thing to do is to put it out of it's suffering but I just can't see how that would be even remotely close to legal or how F&W would be able to view that in any way other than poaching out of season with a rifle..

Thoughts?

*and popcorn* Thanks friends

Sometimes there is a big difference between ethical and legal. It's unfortunate, but "finishing" off an injured animal that refuses to die with a rifle is illegal (in a bow only season). So is finding that animal that has stopped bleeding with a dog.
In the end that injured animal dies and goes back into the food chain, so not a total loss.
Worst case scenarios imo, is a wounded animal hit by a vehicle that is in obvious distress, but your not allowed to put it out of it's misery.

[last minute]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Was talking to a hunting buddy about this and wanted to hear some other thoughts on this. Inevitably, bow hunting you will run into a time when you make a non-ideal shot on an animal and injure it but it may not be an immediately mortal kill shot. What is the right thing to do if you keep tracking the animal but you can't get close enough for a follow up bow shot?

Is it ever legal to finish the animal with a rifle from range to stop it from suffering?

Anyone ever had to deal with a situation like this with F&W?

What is the right thing to do ethically?

I can't help but feel if I had taken the shot and seriously injured an animal but not mortally wounded it and I track if for 6 hours the right thing to do is to put it out of it's suffering but I just can't see how that would be even remotely close to legal or how F&W would be able to view that in any way other than poaching out of season with a rifle..

Thoughts?

*and popcorn* Thanks friends

I don't bow hunt but i don't think a rifle would be legal if it's bow season if i couldn't find it to finish it off the animal in question i am guessing it would be yote bait or better yet a feeding frenzy for the scavengers. Whats left

[Spartikus]

Good conversation guys. Wasn't anything I didn't expect. A lot of things go through your mind as a new bow hunter and tracking a lost animal is part of the deal. We were talking about a lot of what ifs and it just seems so sad to see an animal die like that days later etc. As ethical as it sounds to put an animal down the abuse would be massive.

Like someone said though that is bow hunting and if you don't make bad shots you don't have bad situations.

So bottom line?

Don't miss!

[Slicktricker]

Misses happen i would take a clean miss and loose 50$ arrow and broad head then a wound any day

[redneck yote]

So here is a question for you ?? IF in a couple days you finally found your wounded animal and it was just a skeleton and nothing was salvageable . Would you close up your tag out of respect for said animal and chalk it up to experience or would you keep hunting trying to fill your tag ??

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by redneck yote

So here is a question for you ?? IF in a couple days you finally found your wounded animal and it was just a skeleton and nothing was salvageable . Would you close up your tag out of respect for said animal and chalk it up to experience or would you keep hunting trying to fill your tag ??

I know guys who know they made a fatal shot and couldn't find the animal and closed their tags for the season, lots of respect for those guys. There is nothing that says they had to do it but they felt obligated to.

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

I find it all too common that people seem to be taking more risks when it comes to bow hunting, it's unfortunate. People see Cam Hanes, John Dudley and other archers like Levi Morgan taking game at 80+ yards. Many do not consider that those guys are professionals...and world class archers. They possess skills that the average guy doesn't.



LC

[Bergerboy]

I used to shoot archery as an addiction when I was younger. Shot out to 70 yards regularly. Went to more 3D competitions than I can remember. When I was hunting with a bow 35 yards. Thats it.

[redneck yote]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I know guys who know they made a fatal shot and couldn't find the animal and closed their tags for the season, lots of respect for those guys. There is nothing that says they had to do it but they felt obligated to.

LC

I have a lot of respect for those type of hunters as well .

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I find it all too common that people seem to be taking more risks when it comes to bow hunting, it's unfortunate. People see Cam Hanes, John Dudley and other archers like Levi Morgan taking game at 80+ yards. Many do not consider that those guys are professionals...and world class archers. They possess skills that the average guy doesn't.



LC

While I agree with your sentiment Lefty, the fact is there is no such thing as a "100% Guaranteed Shot". That poster was obviously made by someone with more righteousness than experience.

Bow hunters have an ethical obligation to only take "high percentage" shots, and an imperitive to follow up as best they can. Sometimes 'stuff' happens, and sometimes the universe conspires against you. EVERY bowhunter I have ever met with more than a few seasons under their belt, at least those who do not not hunt only from tree stands, has had the gut wrenching experience of either a) making a bad hit on an animal, or b) losing an animal that appeared to be fatally hit.

Grass, twigs, wind, mechanical failure, nerves, weather, inexperience, etc. all contribute to less than ideal shooting.

I have unfortunately experienced most of the above; sometimes I have got lucky, and sometimes I haven't.

Two further thoughts:
1) A surgically sharp broadhead is a horribly devastating, hideously effective, deadly instrument. I have seen absolutely awful shots result in spectacularly quick deaths.
2) The wound left by a surgically sharp broadhead when the hit manages to miss a critical 'life component' of an animal is more often then not healed over in short order, with extremely high survival rates, unlike high velocity bullet wounds which are highly susceptible to infection, and more often than not, lead to death.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

While I agree with your sentiment Lefty, the fact is there is no such thing as a "100% Guaranteed Shot". That poster was obviously made by someone with more righteousness than experience.

Bow hunters have an ethical obligation to only take "high percentage" shots, and an imperitive to follow up as best they can. Sometimes 'stuff' happens, and sometimes the universe conspires against you. EVERY bowhunter I have ever met with more than a few seasons under their belt, at least those who do not not hunt only from tree stands, has had the gut wrenching experience of either a) making a bad hit on an animal, or b) losing an animal that appeared to be fatally hit.

Grass, twigs, wind, mechanical failure, nerves, weather, inexperience, etc. all contribute to less than ideal shooting.

I have unfortunately experienced most of the above; sometimes I have got lucky, and sometimes I haven't.

Two further thoughts:
1) A surgically sharp broadhead is a horribly devastating, hideously effective, deadly instrument. I have seen absolutely awful shots result in spectacularly quick deaths.
2) The wound left by a surgically sharp broadhead when the hit manages to miss a critical 'life component' of an animal is more often then not healed over in short order, with extremely high survival rates, unlike high velocity bullet wounds which are highly susceptible to infection, and more often than not, lead to death.

I think the point the poster is making is if you don't have the highest possible confidence in the shot you are about to take...do not take it. You can't make something out of nothing when talking archery hunting. It's a different mindset than rifle hunting. Some guys will take risks...animals running, longer distances then they have tested their equipment to, shooting through brush when there isn't an open window.

If you feel with no doubt it is going to be a successful single shot...then take it. I have drawn and passed on shots due to angles, animal movement, and other revelations at the moment of truth.

The point is that you need to be fully confident in the shot you are about to take or you are better off taking a pass.

I personally see and hear of so many people taking shots that seem extremely long IMHO, and I think that sometimes the drive for taking an animal is so high that the respect for the animal is lost in the process.

I have witnessed guys emptying their rifles at a running deer at distances exceeding 300 yards....just because they have a full magazine, these shots were all taken off hand....

LC

[Pudelpointer]

Can not disagree with anything you have said. Very well articulated.

However, I just think that we may do a disservice to new(er) bowhunters when we come across as 'holier than thou' when discussing killing animals. I think experienced bowhunters need to be very honest about the mistakes we've made and the lessons we've learned; hopefully that information helps them to make thoughtful, informed decisions when the pressure is on.

And because I am kind of competitive.... I watched 2 different groups of hunters (3 & 2) open up on a heard of running elk from opposites sides, each group well in excess of 700 yards from the elk. Iirc there was a total of 23 shots. Nothing like opening morning in the Porcupine Hills.

[3blade]

Not legal in an archery season.

I've run down 2 animals and finished them with my bow. A perfectly hit (broadside, 30 yard, double lung, x ring shot placement) mule deer doe that decided not to die easily that day and was still going 2 hrs and 2 k later. She was not well but still going, certainly would have expired but after my second 45 min sit and wait I'd had enough. The other was a whitetail buck that I hit too far forward (string caught my sleeve). One lung and the back edge of the trachea. Cut something in the shoulder so he couldn't run well. Both finished with another arrow as soon as I could. It is possible. The knowledge of when to go after em and when to wait comes with experience, but generally.... Too far back - wait. It's still to fast for you.

Too far forward - go, because once that wound clots your blood trail is gone. Might live, might not but you won't likely find it either way.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Can not disagree with anything you have said. Very well articulated.

However, I just think that we may do a disservice to new(er) bowhunters when we come across as 'holier than thou' when discussing killing animals. I think experienced bowhunters need to be very honest about the mistakes we've made and the lessons we've learned; hopefully that information helps them to make thoughtful, informed decisions when the pressure is on.

Absolutely...I have made poor shots with a rifle and poor shots with a bow. As time goes by and experience grows I actually found the distance I was willing to shoot getting shorter and the types of shots I was willing to take getting easier. I find that for me the drive to make a successful shot is higher than the drive to take any shot.

One of my Dads buddies had an attitude of "if there is lead in the air there is hope". I have learned it is better to not take a shot than to take a shot at any and all costs. Up and comers are watching TV and idolizing experts from world champions to celebrities...somehow when the pros make it look easy, everyone becomes a long range shooting expert. Then you read threads and hear stories of guys asking how to track animals, and what kind of blood they have and should they wait 20 mins or 20 hours, also those who do not understand basic anatomy....those are the kinds of things one should research and understand before any shot is taken. But I digress...sadly many new hunters want the fast track to become the next "bone collector".

LC

[Full Curl Earl]

Sometimes doing the right thing, isn't the legal thing.
You have to be OK with your decision, and if using a firearm is what best suits the situation, then so be it.
Hiding behind laws that many of us feel are ridiculous, doesn't let a hunter out of the Moral/ethical conundrum.
Bad shots will happen.
Bad men will kill deer at night.
Good men will end suffering at night.
Hunting offers up no shortage of difficult decisions.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Sometimes doing the right thing, isn't the legal thing.
You have to be OK with your decision, and if using a firearm is what best suits the situation, then so be it.
Hiding behind laws that many of us feel are ridiculous, doesn't let a hunter out of the Moral/ethical conundrum.
Bad shots will happen.
Bad men will kill deer at night.
Good men will end suffering at night.
Hunting offers up no shortage of difficult decisions.

If you are such a good man as to end the animal's suffering at night or with a firearm during archery season, then you should be good enough to turn yourself in to F&W for doing so. After all, you are the one that caused the animal to suffer. If you are going to hunt, you need to accept the fact that you may end up wounding an animal, without having a legal means to finish it. If you are not prepared to live with that possibility, then perhaps hunting is not for you?

[58thecat]

A bad shot will happen, period, you spend enough time at it this will happen, so many variables come into play as to the situation, first light, last light, etc
Legal to carry a rifle etc during this season, zone etc...you owe it to the animal to finish what you started but sometimes it doesn't play out that way and you will live with a bad feeling for a long time...this will make you a better respectful hunter.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

Allowing rifle would make it to easy for poachers to "recove" lost game shouldn't even be a question allowing it. Don't take stupid shots and won't happen.

Even the best shots can go wrong .
However , it is up to the hunter to decide when to shoot and what ethically to do afterwards .
It is not that difficult to finding a dying animal with an arrow it knife unless it is still going and far away , of course .
Cat

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

A bad shot will happen, period, you spend enough time at it this will happen, so many variables come into play as to the situation, first light, last light, etc
Legal to carry a rifle etc during this season, zone etc...you owe it to the animal to finish what you started but sometimes it doesn't play out that way and you will live with a bad feeling for a long time...this will make you a better respectful hunter.

Bad shots happen in rifle as well as bow. But when we tighten up our restrictions on what a good shot consists of, it is amazing how the incidents of bad shots goes down. It reminds me of poker, it is amazing how little things go bad, when you only play good hands.

[Full Curl Earl]

I'm sorry you climbed to the conclusion that I was a good man elk. If your looking for black and white answers for difficult questions, then reading further is probably not for you, nor is hunting. The notion that one would turn themselves in for an act of perceived mercy is silly, and not sure why you'd even try to make your point riding on that pony?
The OP asked for opinions, I offered the OP mine. I don't insist others follow. If it sits unwell with you, then by all means, alleviate yourself of emotional responsibility and do what all us good Canadians do, "exactly what your told by the written law" its much easier. For the record, I despise poaching, and cop outs. I will always end the suffering of a wounded animal, because for me its right, and I'm the only one who needs to be comfortable with it.


If you are such a good man as to end the animal's suffering at night or with a firearm during archery season, then you should be good enough to turn yourself in to F&W for doing so. After all, you are the one that caused the animal to suffer. If you are going to hunt, you need to accept the fact that you may end up wounding an animal, without having a legal means to finish it. If you are not prepared to live with that possibility, then perhaps hunting is not for you?[/QUOTE]

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

I'm sorry you climbed to the conclusion that I was a good man elk. If your looking for black and white answers for difficult questions, then reading further is probably not for you, nor is hunting. The notion that one would turn themselves in for an act of perceived mercy is silly, and not sure why you'd even try to make your point riding on that pony?
The OP asked for opinions, I offered the OP mine. I don't insist others follow. If it sits unwell with you, then by all means, alleviate yourself of emotional responsibility and do what all us good Canadians do, "exactly what your told by the written law" its much easier. For the record, I despise poaching, and cop outs. I will always end the suffering of a wounded animal, because for me its right, and I'm the only one who needs to be comfortable with it.


If you are such a good man as to end the animal's suffering at night or with a firearm during archery season, then you should be good enough to turn yourself in to F&W for doing so. After all, you are the one that caused the animal to suffer. If you are going to hunt, you need to accept the fact that you may end up wounding an animal, without having a legal means to finish it. If you are not prepared to live with that possibility, then perhaps hunting is not for you?

Hunting after hours, or using a firearm during bow season are both poaching, so if you despise poaching, then you should despise both of those activities, regardless of how you try to justify them. If you are going to ignore the regulations when you feel like it, then you have no right to condemn anyone else that chooses to ignore the regulations, when they feel like it.

[Full Curl Earl]

I could have written your response before you did. Lol
I'm not calling you out on your decisions elk, if following the law without discretion in your life is what helps you sleep, then that's what you ought to do.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

I could have written your response before you did. Lol
I'm not calling you out on your decisions elk, if following the law without discretion in your life is what helps you sleep, then that's what you ought to do.

If I don't feel that I can obey the rules of the sport, then I don't play that sport.When I choose to hunt, I accept that I may wound and lose an animal some day. And that is why I am very fussy about the shots that I take. I don't take risky shots, and if an animal is wounded at the end of legal time, I will be back in the morning to look for it. And if it is archery season, I will be following up a wounded animal carrying a bow, rather than a rifle. And if a wounded animal jumps the fence onto property that I don't have legal access to, I won't pursue the animal onto that property, and I won't fire at the animal once it reaches that private property. If I lose an animal because of my choices, I am prepared to live with that.

[gsxrkiller]

Just do whats reasonable given the situation and you will be your best judge of whats right and ethical because you are the one there at the time and know all the variables. Just the fact that your thinking about it shows good ethics. good hunting