Considering switching from vanish fluorocarbon to braid

[brohymn2]

I Wanna know what advantages/disadvantages I'd have of going to a braid. I run 1 set up for jigging/bottom bouncing/fishing rivers. And run 8 lbs test. I've had really good experiences with vanish and have outfished my friends and father almost every time since I made the switch to that line but I'm always thinking I can do better.

Thanks guys

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[yetiseeker]

I would agree you.

I run braided line as my main line, with a double uni knot to Fluoro carbon.

You get the strength, sensitivity and abrasion resistance with braid as you r main line, and then a 4 to 6 foot leader of fluoro for the transparency so as not to spook the fish.

You're thinking right IMO.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by yetiseeker

I would agree you.

I run braided line as my main line, with a double uni knot to Fluoro carbon.

You get the strength, sensitivity and abrasion resistance with braid as you r main line, and then a 4 to 6 foot leader of fluoro for the transparency so as not to spook the fish.

You're thinking right IMO.

Just to clarify braid has poor abrasion resistance, that is part of the reason why you need a fluoro leader(along with transparency).

Braid has high strength and the best sensitivity. The smaller diameter of braid also allows you to use much higher strength line without compromising casting(so less worry about breaking off).

I like the power pro super slick if you can find it on sale. Regular power pro is good too but you can cast a bit further with super slick.

OP Sounds like you primarily fish for walleye, in that case I would use 20 lb braid with 8-10 lb fluoro line as leader(not the leader material, fluoro leader only needed if going with 40+ lb test as pike leader). You could get away with 10 lb and have further casting but will need to shorten it periodically as it wears(especially if fishing rocky spots on the river regularly).

[Walleyedude]

Advantages of braid are increased sensitivity, longer casts, higher knot strength, smaller diameter (a big advantage that is often overlooked, there's much less drag in the water), better line visibility above the water, MUCH less line memory/twist, and it's more durable/longer lasting.

When you combine all those advantages with a 4-6' leader of fluorocarbon, you have the best of both worlds. Braid is expensive up front, but it's the best deal going when it comes to line. It lasts for several years depending how much you use it, and it's easy to reverse it onto another reel and double the life span. Give it a try, worst case scenario you don't like it and you wasted $20, but best case scenario, you upped your game even more and found something that will put more fish in the boat for you.

My recommendation would be the Power Pro Super Slick too. The best braid I've used. There's no need whatsoever to go past 10lb test in my opinion, if you can break that off on a walleye or pike in AB, you're doing something wrong lol. Combined with an 8 or even 6lb fluoro leader, it's a deadly combination.

[brohymn2]

Thanks guys. Yes this is for my walleye set up. I'll giver a try

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[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

There's no need whatsoever to go past 10lb test in my opinion, if you can break that off on a walleye or pike in AB, you're doing something wrong lol. Combined with an 8 or even 6lb fluoro leader, it's a deadly combination.

No need? Never hooked a tree before? Got snagged in rocks? Had a decent fish bury in thick weeds? Caught a 10+ lb pike and had to overplay it due to light line/drag? Lost a fish due to line rubbing on tree/rock/other sharp surfaces? I'm sure there are more reasons...

So now we have the advantages out of the way what are the disadvantages of 20 lb vs 10? Larger diameter, still smaller then 8 lb mono/fluoro though. Shorter casting, similarly still better then most mono/fluoro and with heavier lures it is negligible.

10 lb braid's only significant advantage imo is if you need to cast light lures(1/16-1/4 oz) long distances and that is why I use 10 lb super slick for trout, perch and the odd time for goldeye/walleye.

[genno]

I use spider wire ez braid it's fantastic, I tip it with 20 lb fluorocarbon leader, but titanium leader for pike, I have lost to many lures with fluorocarbon leader on pike.


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[millsboy79]

Guess I will through another brand out there, I am currently using Sufix 832 after trying a number of others and won't go back to powerpro (superslik), the new trilene, or anything berkley.

I used 10 lb on my trout / whitefish reel (which I was thinking was a little big), and 20 on my pike / walleye (everything else) reel.

Depending on my the length of my leader I will just attach a snap to the mainline and then attach my leader via surgeons loop (or similar) For smaller diameter leaders, I have used the "no name knot" and larger diameters I used the sebile knot. I moved back to a snap simply because I tend to use the same reels for different things and removing a snap and retying it is much easier than retying a no name or sebile knot.

I use 50 - 80lb fluoro leader for pike and 15-20 for walleye. Trout I would use 6-10 but have moved over to fly fishing so that one does not get used that much.

I have not used a mono/fluoro main line since the original berkley fireline was released. One of my best fishing buddies still has mono on his trout reel and I always wonder why as I cast my lure 20 yards over his last cast ... hahaha probably and exaggeration but you get my meaning.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Advantages of braid are increased sensitivity, longer casts, higher knot strength, smaller diameter (a big advantage that is often overlooked, there's much less drag in the water), better line visibility above the water, MUCH less line memory/twist, and it's more durable/longer lasting.

When you combine all those advantages with a 4-6' leader of fluorocarbon, you have the best of both worlds. Braid is expensive up front, but it's the best deal going when it comes to line. It lasts for several years depending how much you use it, and it's easy to reverse it onto another reel and double the life span. Give it a try, worst case scenario you don't like it and you wasted $20, but best case scenario, you upped your game even more and found something that will put more fish in the boat for you.

My recommendation would be the Power Pro Super Slick too. The best braid I've used. There's no need whatsoever to go past 10lb test in my opinion, if you can break that off on a walleye or pike in AB, you're doing something wrong lol. Combined with an 8 or even 6lb fluoro leader, it's a deadly combination.

Everything Dude said, plus another little known fact is that you can clean weeds of a braided line easier and quicker then mono.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by RavYak

No need? Never hooked a tree before? Got snagged in rocks? Had a decent fish bury in thick weeds? Caught a 10+ lb pike and had to overplay it due to light line/drag? Lost a fish due to line rubbing on tree/rock/other sharp surfaces? I'm sure there are more reasons...

So now we have the advantages out of the way what are the disadvantages of 20 lb vs 10? Larger diameter, still smaller then 8 lb mono/fluoro though. Shorter casting, similarly still better then most mono/fluoro and with heavier lures it is negligible.

10 lb braid's only significant advantage imo is if you need to cast light lures(1/16-1/4 oz) long distances and that is why I use 10 lb super slick for trout, perch and the odd time for goldeye/walleye.

I don't spend a lot of time hooking trees or getting snagged in rocks, therefore I don't base my line choice on those factors. I've never had an issue with abrasion either, even after an entire year of pulling cranks, and certainly not to the point it determined my line choice.

I've caught plenty of pike well over 10 lbs and never had a concern. If I were specifically targeting big pike in heavy weed cover, I'd move up to 20, maybe even 30 lb braid, but I didn't get the impression that was the OP's intent.

I've been pulling cranks with 10 lb braid at 2-3 mph and snagged with no issues. 10lb test braid is hard to break off even when you want to, (snagged on a tree or rock) let alone with a good rod and a reel with a good drag. If you're using a fluorocarbon leader, it will break long before the braid main line, and it takes the majority of the beating anyway. The beauty of that is the leader is easily checked and replaced.

To each their own, but the advantages of going with lighter line - thinner diameter, better casting, better lure action, more line capacity and more supple line are more than worth it in my opinion.

[idaman]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

I don't spend a lot of time hooking trees or getting snagged in rocks, therefore I don't base my line choice on those factors. I've never had an issue with abrasion either, even after an entire year of pulling cranks, and certainly not to the point it determined my line choice.

I've caught plenty of pike well over 10 lbs and never had a concern. If I were specifically targeting big pike in heavy weed cover, I'd move up to 20, maybe even 30 lb braid, but I didn't get the impression that was the OP's intent.

I've been pulling cranks with 10 lb braid at 2-3 mph and snagged with no issues. 10lb test braid is hard to break off even when you want to, (snagged on a tree or rock) let alone with a good rod and a reel with a good drag. If you're using a fluorocarbon leader, it will break long before the braid main line, and it takes the majority of the beating anyway. The beauty of that is the leader is easily checked and replaced.

To each their own, but the advantages of going with lighter line - thinner diameter, better casting, better lure action, more line capacity and more supple line are more than worth it in my opinion.

Everything this guy said....
I won't use anything over 12lb-15lb spiderwire, I've also pulled up some monster stumps, snagged many rocks and landed heavier pike than anything Ravyak has landed & only been broke of when I choose to cut the line. I do use a mustad factory fluorocarbon leader tho.

[Bemoredog]

Originally Posted by idaman

Everything this guy said....
...I've also pulled up some monster stumps, snagged many rocks and landed heavier pike than anything Ravyak has landed...

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by idaman

Everything this guy said....
I won't use anything over 12lb-15lb spiderwire, I've also pulled up some monster stumps, snagged many rocks and landed heavier pike than anything Ravyak has landed & only been broke of when I choose to cut the line. I do use a mustad factory fluorocarbon leader tho.

I would love to see the photos, I have seen a lot of the pictures Rav has posted and that's quite the claim. One of my goals is to simply catch something worthy enough that Rav would even post a picture of it.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

I would love to see the photos, I have seen a lot of the pictures Rav has posted and that's quite the claim. One of my goals is to simply catch something worthy enough that Rav would even post a picture of it.

I don't know catching a 10+ pike is a "huge claim" gentlemen. These fish are not uncommon in a few lakes he fishes regularly.

I happen to troll my boat past Rav at a local lake while he was being pulled around (and subsequently landed) a 10+lb Pike. He was in his little kayak struggling as we were entertained by his predicament. I was certain he would be taking a swim as every time the big girl took off he was wobbling around like a drunk riding a floating greased barrel.

That particular lake produces 10lb+ Pike quite commonly. This fish was one of them I saw him land.

His claim is legit.

[SamSteele]

Even my kids can catch pike over 10 lbs. all on braid.



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[shell_guy]

I run Spiderwire Camo Braid 15lb test on all my rods, the. I use a double uni knot to 10lb Fluro or 15lb fluro depending on application. I love the added sensitivity of braid for jigging eyes.

[burbotman]

Each to their own, myself spider wire 15lb. Absolutely love it for pike, lake trout, walleye, bass and catfish.

Trilene knots hold well

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Advantages of braid are increased sensitivity, longer casts, higher knot strength, smaller diameter (a big advantage that is often overlooked, there's much less drag in the water), better line visibility above the water, MUCH less line memory/twist, and it's more durable/longer lasting.

When you combine all those advantages with a 4-6' leader of fluorocarbon, you have the best of both worlds. Braid is expensive up front, but it's the best deal going when it comes to line. It lasts for several years depending how much you use it, and it's easy to reverse it onto another reel and double the life span. Give it a try, worst case scenario you don't like it and you wasted $20, but best case scenario, you upped your game even more and found something that will put more fish in the boat for you.

My recommendation would be the Power Pro Super Slick too. The best braid I've used. There's no need whatsoever to go past 10lb test in my opinion, if you can break that off on a walleye or pike in AB, you're doing something wrong lol. Combined with an 8 or even 6lb fluoro leader, it's a deadly combination.

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

I don't spend a lot of time hooking trees or getting snagged in rocks, therefore I don't base my line choice on those factors. I've never had an issue with abrasion either, even after an entire year of pulling cranks, and certainly not to the point it determined my line choice.

I've caught plenty of pike well over 10 lbs and never had a concern. If I were specifically targeting big pike in heavy weed cover, I'd move up to 20, maybe even 30 lb braid, but I didn't get the impression that was the OP's intent.

I've been pulling cranks with 10 lb braid at 2-3 mph and snagged with no issues. 10lb test braid is hard to break off even when you want to, (snagged on a tree or rock) let alone with a good rod and a reel with a good drag. If you're using a fluorocarbon leader, it will break long before the braid main line, and it takes the majority of the beating anyway. The beauty of that is the leader is easily checked and replaced.

To each their own, but the advantages of going with lighter line - thinner diameter, better casting, better lure action, more line capacity and more supple line are more than worth it in my opinion.

Also agree.

[EZM]

I run a 20lb PowerPro Superslick and add a fluorocarbon leader on my medium/light gear for most of the walleye and pike fishing I do.

Best thing since sliced bread. I freaking love bread.

[cube]

Originally Posted by brohymn2

I Wanna know what advantages/disadvantages I'd have of going to a braid. I run 1 set up for jigging/bottom bouncing/fishing rivers. And run 8 lbs test. I've had really good experiences with vanish and have outfished my friends and father almost every time since I made the switch to that line but I'm always thinking I can do better.

Thanks guys

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Four minor disadvantages of braid compared to vanish.

1. braid hangs onto floating weeds/debris much more so than does mono or flouro. When I'm fishing in the river during the spring I always use mono or flouro for this reason.

2. Braid makes more sound under water when moving than mono or flouro.

3. Under water bubble curtains coming off braid when you first put it down clouds up the sounder for the first bit.

4. The stretch in mono/flouro can act as a shock absorber and keep a hook from pulling out or line from breaking some times.


Note these are minor differences.

Not sure if any one covered it yet or not. Braid does not kink up as bad ice fishing compared to flouro.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by cube

Four minor disadvantages of braid compared to vanish.

1. braid hangs onto floating weeds/debris much more so than does mono or flouro. When I'm fishing in the river during the spring I always use mono or flouro for this reason.

I actually find the opposite to be true.

A quick snap of the line and braid will cut through weeds on the bottom or floating weeds with ease. You won't have to reel in and clean weeds off your lure nearly as often, and the added bonus is that it's much easier to see and feel when your lure is fouled using braid.

4. The stretch in mono/flouro can act as a shock absorber and keep a hook from pulling out or line from breaking some times.

True. I find when using braid you're much more likely to pull the hook out than break the line. You have to adjust your rod choice a little, generally longer and softer, and back off your drag a bit when using braid. Hooksets also need to be toned down, no need for the big "Bob Izumi" style yanks when using braid LOL.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Advantages of braid are increased sensitivity, longer casts, higher knot strength, smaller diameter (a big advantage that is often overlooked, there's much less drag in the water), better line visibility above the water, MUCH less line memory/twist, and it's more durable/longer lasting.

When you combine all those advantages with a 4-6' leader of fluorocarbon, you have the best of both worlds. Braid is expensive up front, but it's the best deal going when it comes to line. It lasts for several years depending how much you use it, and it's easy to reverse it onto another reel and double the life span. Give it a try, worst case scenario you don't like it and you wasted $20, but best case scenario, you upped your game even more and found something that will put more fish in the boat for you.

My recommendation would be the Power Pro Super Slick too. The best braid I've used. There's no need whatsoever to go past 10lb test in my opinion, if you can break that off on a walleye or pike in AB, you're doing something wrong lol. Combined with an 8 or even 6lb fluoro leader, it's a deadly combination.

Higher knot strength??? In Power Pro Slick??? That very might well be the slipperiest stuff on the market. GSPs are notorious for knots not holding due to the total lack of line stretch and the slippery property of the material allowing knots to pull apart under tension.

Monos typically have better knot holding properties as the stretch allows the line to snug (dig) itself into the knot when setting (tightening down on) the knot.

Fluorocarbons tend to fall somewhere in between mono and GSP for knot strength and stretch.

I do agree with your points on lack of memory, better casting, and less line drag for braid, but if you want knot strength you are going need something with stretch.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Higher knot strength??? In Power Pro Slick??? That very might well be the slipperiest stuff on the market. GSPs are notorious for knots not holding due to the total lack of line stretch and the slippery property of the material allowing knots to pull apart under tension.

Monos typically have better knot holding properties as the stretch allows the line to snug (dig) itself into the knot when setting (tightening down on) the knot.

I agree with you that knot strength is better as a percentage of breaking strength for mono/fluoro, but that's also the key difference. If you're comparing lines of equivalent diameter and breaking strength, the failure point of the knot in the braid will be much higher. The type of knot used would also be a factor.

I based it on my experience tying simple palomar knots in 10lb braid vs 10lb mono or fluoro. I won't say it's never happened because it probably has, but I can't think of a time I've ever broken a knot, and I'm very certain I've never had one pull loose under tension. I've found the SuperSlick to be the best because it is so soft and pliable and the knots end up being very small. It's not common, but I have had knots break using mono/fluro, especially if the knot wasn't thoroughly wetted before cinching it down.

[Legend Boats]

I believe both lines will serve 2 different types of fishing. The fluorocarbon line is great for clear lakes and will produce a higher percentage of hookups. Braid is great on northern lakes or stained lakes. I personally like to use both on every setup. Braid as my main line and a 10ft leader of fluorocarbon. It gives me the best of both. The sensitivity of braid while hiding the line with fluoro. It’s also a confidence thing that always plays when your not catching fish and your friends are!

Hope this helps
Henry-Legend Boats

[SamSteele]

I can't stand Spiderwire line, despite trying it out a few times. I find it breaks easier than any other braid. I use Suffix 832 pretty much exclusively. It starts out stiff but softens up quickly and lasts quite a while. I have tried PowerPro too and like the Suffix stuff better.

SS

[Lazy Fisherguy]

10lb Nanofil for main line, 6-10 lb vanish fluorocarbon for leader, depending on what speices or size of fish. Nanofil is the best braid i ever used...

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by Lazy Fisherguy

10lb Nanofil for main line, 6-10 lb vanish fluorocarbon for leader, depending on what speices or size of fish. Nanofil is the best braid i ever used...

Hahaha I used to be you. Loved the nanofil, casts for miles. But it's just doesn't stand up, you see tiny little frays starting to happen ... next thing you know you hear a Crack and your lure is flying away. I moved to suffix.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

Hahaha I used to be you. Loved the nanofil, casts for miles. But it's just doesn't stand up, you see tiny little frays starting to happen ... next thing you know you hear a Crack and your lure is flying away. I moved to suffix.

And that is the reason I switched from suffix to power pro.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by RavYak

And that is the reason I switched from suffix to power pro.

I started with power pro. Hahaha well actually I started with fireline so pretty much tried them all.

Even the Trilene hi vis striped stuff ... same as all of them though the dye they use on the line washes away almost immediately and it's just the same ole line after that.

Maybe someone will make the perfect line someday.

[newscientist]

Braided lines are not without disadvantages. They have NO stretch so you need to be careful when setting the hook as it can easily rip the fish mouth and you lose your catch. No stretch gives best sensitivity when the line is tensioned as in a vertical jig situation or continuous retrieving, but it also means if you lose this tension you feel nothing. In comparison, mono and fluoro lines will remain under some tension due to their stretch. No stretch makes the rod the only flexible part in your setup while fighting the fish, so it is the rod that will keep the tension in the line. You would also loosen the drag a bit to avoid too much pressure on the hook. As for breaking the line, I snapped more braid than mono while casting my lures. Even a half an ounce lure can snap a 30 lb braid if there is a knot in the line that suddenly stops the cast.
On the advantages side, the strength is not matched. You can pull you line and lure through anything with confidence (swivels will fail before the line does). Braid is the only option in heavy weed. You can rip you lure free from any weed with a 15+ lb braid. Braid is also the best for single hook lures such as jigs and weedless spoons which requires strong hook setting and usually have a big hook that won't rip the fish mouth easily. On the other hand, mono lines are best for treble hook lures that often do not need much sensitivity and requires a gentle fight.
The most tricky part in using braid is to keep some tension while retrieving the line to avoid loose wraps in the spool. Those loose wraps are the source for all knots and failure in braided lines. For this, the lure should be matched with the line, light lures can't be used with a heavy line as they won't put enough tension on the line while retrieving. I found 15-20 lb of a soft braid to work good on a wide range of lure sizes. You can go as light as 6lb braid for small lures.
As for the brands, I found Sufex 832 to be the best in 6-20lb size, while Spiderwire Stealth (not the Ez) is decent only at heaver lines. Sufix is smooth and soft while Spiderwire is stiff but glides will. Original PowerPro at 30lb gave me nothing but troubles. At any case, I think neither will outcast a thin mono.
Thats my take on braided lines. I hope you find it relevant to your use.

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