Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-27-2020, 09:31 AM
Dean2's Avatar
Dean2 Dean2 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 14,973
Default Remington Filing for Bankruptcy AGAIN

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gun-mak...on-11593186468

Sad to see a once great company fall to the lows they have over the past 15-20 years or so. They have not been on my list of guns to buy for at least 15 years. Probably true for many others and explains why they keep going bankrupt. Whoever buys them is going to have a long road to rebuild trust in this Brand.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:20 AM
whitetail Junkie's Avatar
whitetail Junkie whitetail Junkie is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AB
Posts: 6,638
Default

Sad as I really like some of There shotgun ammo.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:06 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
Default

Even with them gone, the 700 clones will be the most popular bolt actions.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:28 AM
marxman's Avatar
marxman marxman is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,844
Default

How can a company with such success in sales go bankrupt. I read an article which said the holding company which owned them somehow offloaded a bunch of debt on them and let them sink, I forget the details and don't know if its accurate but there has got to be something funny about a hugely successful outfit in sales can't bring in enough money
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:38 AM
Grizzly Adams's Avatar
Grizzly Adams Grizzly Adams is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marxman View Post
How can a company with such success in sales go bankrupt. I read an article which said the holding company which owned them somehow offloaded a bunch of debt on them and let them sink, I forget the details and don't know if its accurate but there has got to be something funny about a hugely successful outfit in sales can't bring in enough money
Yup, it's about Venture holding companies and maximizing profits. The actual company that produces something of value is just a tool to be manipulated.

Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:55 AM
DLab DLab is offline
Shooting Xs
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 836
Default

Cerberus Capital if I remember correctly,is basically responsible for the mess.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-27-2020, 12:26 PM
Dean2's Avatar
Dean2 Dean2 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 14,973
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLab View Post
Cerberus Capital if I remember correctly,is basically responsible for the mess.
You are correct. It is what leveraged buyouts are all about. Buy the company REALLY cheap out of bankruptcy protection, get it running again, borrow ever cent you can, usually many times what you bought it for, from the greedy high risk lenders placing funds for dumb investors. The lenders are motivated to take high risk positions, because they want to earn the huge up front fees that go directly into their bonus pools and charge high interest rates on top. Structure the payments so it works for the first year or two, then load in the Balloon payments and repay acceleration clauses. Let it drown under debt payments it can never carry. Only people that get hurt are the employees, who have often provided a bunch of the money to buy the company out of Bankruptcy, sometimes with their Pension funds as well as personal money, but are last to get paid out, and the high risk investors who lose their butts when the company defaults. The Lenders and the Private equity firm have none of their own money in the deal anyhow, and have earned large dollars doing the deal, as in many, many millions.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-27-2020, 06:07 PM
Pioneer2 Pioneer2 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,337
Default Aka

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLab View Post
Cerberus Capital if I remember correctly,is basically responsible for the mess.
Ticks
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:01 PM
midgetwaiter midgetwaiter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marxman View Post
How can a company with such success in sales go bankrupt. I read an article which said the holding company which owned them somehow offloaded a bunch of debt on them and let them sink, I forget the details and don't know if its accurate but there has got to be something funny about a hugely successful outfit in sales can't bring in enough money
This article explains it in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...untsville.html

This has been happening for 30 years all over the place but there’s concern that a big reckoning is on the horizon. By using these complicated debt swap schemes and asset backed securities you have large seemingly successful companies that are actually operating on a razor’s edge. When There’s a disruption in the pipeline somewhere things get ugly fast.

Hertz has found itself in a similar position lately but the underlying problems are interesting and probably not what you might assume.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88304...a-broken-hertz
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-28-2020, 04:03 PM
W921 W921 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,313
Default

Just a thought, but why should they be in business? There 1858 revolver was cutting edge. Their rolling blocks where wonderful. Their 1875 was up there with colts 73. My newest Remington is a model 700 from the early 60s. First hand load I put through it was sub minute of angle so I've stuck with that load ever since. The trigger on that gun you dont even have to touch. All you have to do is think bang in your head and the gun will go off.
Early 870s were great. What have they done lately? You could say the same thing about a lot of big names.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-28-2020, 05:02 PM
buckman buckman is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,619
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Even with them gone, the 700 clones will be the most popular bolt actions.
I believe it(the 700) was this rifle action that caused the demise of the far superior Mod 70 action in 1964.

Winchester couldn't compete with the cheaper to manufacture action of the Remington 700.

The reason so many clones of the 700 are around is cost, its simply a cheaper action to machine and produce, which in turn makes it more popular as its less expensive.

This of course doesn't mean its not a good action (I own a couple) Just an inferior one.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-28-2020, 05:14 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
I believe it(the 700) was this rifle action that caused the demise of the far superior Mod 70 action in 1964.

Winchester couldn't compete with the cheaper to manufacture action of the Remington 700.

The reason so many clones of the 700 are around is cost, its simply a cheaper action to machine and produce, which in turn makes it more popular as its less expensive.

This of course doesn't mean its not a good action (I own a couple) Just an inferior one.
The clones exist because of the footprint and trigger well. That’s it.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”

-Billy Molls
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-28-2020, 07:50 PM
Roamer Roamer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 146
Default

Dang it! I thought those triangle barrels were going to be the next big thing! Along with firearms discharging upon releasing the safety. I just don’t get it.

I agree that there was a time when they made a great product, a long time ago.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:09 AM
Rockmcdock Rockmcdock is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 47
Default All you have to do is think bang

Quote:
Originally Posted by W921 View Post
The trigger on that gun you dont even have to touch. All you have to do is think bang in your head and the gun will go off.
Exactly. My hunting buddy’s dad has a 700 he bought new in the 1970s. Twice it has gone off with the safety on and no finger or anything else near the trigger. He was being safe and no one was hurt, but he has just got to stop thinking “bang in [his] head,” or it may go off. Do the lawsuits have nothing to do with their financial woes?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:13 PM
W921 W921 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmcdock View Post
Exactly. My hunting buddy’s dad has a 700 he bought new in the 1970s. Twice it has gone off with the safety on and no finger or anything else near the trigger. He was being safe and no one was hurt, but he has just got to stop thinking “bang in [his] head,” or it may go off. Do the lawsuits have nothing to do with their financial woes?
I was trying to express how good the trigger is on my old 700. I didn't buy the gun new so I dont know if its the factory trigger or if somebody worked on it. The rifle is a heavy barrel 22/250.
Best trigger I ever had. Its like a set trigger but you dont have to set it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:17 PM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmcdock View Post
Exactly. My hunting buddy’s dad has a 700 he bought new in the 1970s. Twice it has gone off with the safety on and no finger or anything else near the trigger. He was being safe and no one was hurt, but he has just got to stop thinking “bang in [his] head,” or it may go off. Do the lawsuits have nothing to do with their financial woes?
TWICE??!!
I would repair or look at getting the trigger fixed the FIRST time it happened, which I have done with many different rifles, not just Remingtons.
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:31 PM
Dean2's Avatar
Dean2 Dean2 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 14,973
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
TWICE??!!
I would repair or look at getting the trigger fixed the FIRST time it happened, which I have done with many different rifles, not just Remingtons.
Cat
No kidding. I can't think of anything more dangerous than a trigger that goes off with the safety on, whether you are touching the trigger or not. FIRST time that happened there would have been a whole new trigger on that gun.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.