So the registry stays.

[gunman300]

153 to 151 votes in favour of keeping the registry. What a crock. Polls show 86% of Canadians are in favour of scrapping it so does this mean MPs don't give a rats butt about representing thier constituents?

[deerhuntercentral]

Originally Posted by gunman300

so does this mean MPs don't give a rats butt about representing thier constituents?

That's precisely what it means. The whole thing is about playing political games in the House of Commons, not about what the people want, it's always been that way. It's like a bunch of spoiled children on the playground.

Billy "lets play tag"
Johny "nah I don't want to play tag"
Suzy "I will play tag with you Billy"
Billy "I will only play tag if Johny plays"
Suzy "Johny lets play tag"
Johny "OK but only if Billy doesn't play"

etc etc etc

[BigRackLover]

It's sad day.

My guns will remain unregistered.

I am a criminal, come and get me.

[wolfman74]

we are slowly losing all are rights gotta love our govenment....

[wolfman74]

Originally Posted by wolfman74

we are slowly losing all are rights gotta love our govenment....

and than they wiil go after our archery

This may all be a blessing in diguise. If voters remember how their MPs voted and the Liberals and NDP lose a few seats because of it, we may well end up with a Conservative majority in the next election. I just look at it as a temporary set back with huge possibilities!

[McLeod Valley]

Thats exactly the way I see it TJ. The begining of the end of a monor Government, lets just pray it will be for the better.
Do you think Harper could handle it?

[elkhunter11]

Do you think Harper could handle it?

I would rather have him in charge than the alternatives.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

This may all be a blessing in diguise. If voters remember how their MPs voted and the Liberals and NDP lose a few seats because of it, we may well end up with a Conservative majority in the next election. I just look at it as a temporary set back with huge possibilities!

you could be on to something there.My saskatchewan buddys\Farmer Friends always vote NDP,and they hate the gun registry. I dont think they are to happy right now.

[elkhunter11]

My saskatchewan buddys\Farmer Friends always vote NDP,and they hate the gun registry. I dont think they are to happy right now.

The big question is,will they change their voting,or will they still vote NDP,but whine and complain about the registry?Talk is cheap,but only voting in a majority for Harper will get rid of the registry.

Originally Posted by McLeod Valley

Thats exactly the way I see it TJ. The begining of the end of a monor Government, lets just pray it will be for the better.
Do you think Harper could handle it?

I think he has shown true leadership skills and for the most part has offered this country some of the most fair representation its ever had. Fiscally he's done amazingly and his social policies seem to reflect those of the Candian people. He's a political genius at playing the system. I'd say he could more than handle it. Canada would be far better off with a Conservative majority with Harper at the helm that it is now although he's done an amazing job with tweedledee and twedledumb constantly nipping at his heels. Imagine where the last recession would have taken us with either of them in charge....The gun registry aside, Harper is a good leader for this country.

[McLeod Valley]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think he has shown true leadership skills and for the most part has offered this country some of the most fair representation its ever had. Fiscally he's done amazingly and his social policies seem to reflect those of the Candian people. He's a political genius at playing the system. I'd say he could more than handle it. Canada would be far better off with a Conservative majority with Harper at the helm that it is now although he's done an amazing job with tweedledee and twedledumb constantly nipping at his heels. Imagine where the last recession would have taken us with either of them in charge....The gun registry aside, Harper is a good leader for this country.

For all of Canadas sake lets hope so , because if they call an election soon , while this issue is still hot on the plate it just might come to a majority gov. , and this country really needs a new game plan , with other issues other then the L.G.R.

[Don Meredith]

Originally Posted by gunman300

153 to 151 votes in favour of keeping the registry. What a crock. Polls show 86% of Canadians are in favour of scrapping it so does this mean MPs don't give a rats butt about representing thier constituents?

I've yet to see a poll that much in favor of scrapping it. The last one I saw was 65% in favor of the registry (I'm talking national here, and even in Alberta it's close). That one was taken just a couple of weeks ahead of last night's vote. So, in actual fact, many of the MPs were representing their constituents. The problem has always been that the anti-registration side has had difficulty getting its message out beyond the already convinced.

I'm on a couple of national, writers' e-mail listservs, and have had many heated discussions with people who just don't understand what the registration is all about. Several mentioned to me they hadn't heard my arguments before. A few I convinced that the registry wasn't worth the expense, but most just thought it should be in place because the chiefs of police said so and it seems logical. That's been the problem all along: the registration to most people just seems the right thing to do, when in fact, it does nothing to prevent gun violence.

I doubt the registration will be a key election issue. Most people will be looking at the economy, health care and other more critical issues to the average person. If the Bloc can keep most of its seats in Quebec, we will most likely have another minority; or indeed a coalition as happened in the UK and Australia. Most people don't trust Harper, don't understand Ignatieff, or don't want to be governed by Layton. We need some leadership with real visions of where this country should go, but I don't see that happening soon.

Again, just my opinion of the moment.

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I would rather have him in charge than the alternatives.

Boy, those two guys on the bottom-left scare the hell out of me.

[gunman300]

Originally Posted by Don Meredith

I've yet to see a poll that much in favor of scrapping it. The last one I saw was 65% in favor of the registry (I'm talking national here, and even in Alberta it's close). That one was taken just a couple of weeks ahead of last night's vote. So, in actual fact, many of the MPs were representing their constituents. The problem has always been that the anti-registration side has had difficulty getting its message out beyond the already convinced.

I'm on a couple of national, writers' e-mail listservs, and have had many heated discussions with people who just don't understand what the registration is all about. Several mentioned to me they hadn't heard my arguments before. A few I convinced that the registry wasn't worth the expense, but most just thought it should be in place because the chiefs of police said so and it seems logical. That's been the problem all along: the registration to most people just seems the right thing to do, when in fact, it does nothing to prevent gun violence.

I doubt the registration will be a key election issue. Most people will be looking at the economy, health care and other more critical issues to the average person. If the Bloc can keep most of its seats in Quebec, we will most likely have another minority; or indeed a coalition as happened in the UK and Australia. Most people don't trust Harper, don't understand Ignatieff, or don't want to be governed by Layton. We need some leadership with real visions of where this country should go, but I don't see that happening soon.

Again, just my opinion of the moment.

86% is the number that was on the screen when I watched Global Calgary this morning. Wether it is right or wrong I don't know, it is just what they reported. Whether it is 65% or 86%, the majority want it gone.

[Don Meredith]

Originally Posted by gunman300

86% is the number that was on the screen when I watched Global Calgary this morning. Wether it is right or wrong I don't know, it is just what they reported. Whether it is 65% or 86%, the majority want it gone.

That might have been their straw poll, where who's ever interested enough to vote votes. Anti-registry people are more inclined to vote and are often 'whipped' to do so by their organizations. The scientific polls I've seen have never shown that kind of majority. Most people are urban, don't own guns or shoot or know people who do.

[elkhunter11]

That might have been their straw poll, where who's ever interested enough to vote votes. Anti-registry people are more inclined to vote and are often 'whipped' to do so by their organizations.

That is no different than any other poll,or even for a federal election,those people that are interested enough to vote do so,while other people don't.You only need to look at recent elections to see how pathetic the turn out has been.
Anti-gun,and anti hunting groups,police chiefs,and political leaders are all more inclined to vote,and are often "whipped" to do so by their organizations.

[Jadham]

Actually that poll that showed 86% of people favored getting rid of it was a completely biased survey.... e.g. it was not a representative sample of average canadians.

Polls done properly (e.g. not just polling hunters) have shown that the majority of canadians FAVOR keeping the registry.

Now don't shoot the messenger, I just wanted to clarify the difference in reporting.

As an aside, the same story sometimes have completely different themes to their headlines, depending on the readership. For example, today in the Calgary Herald "Federal Deficit Continues to Shrink" vs. the Globe and Mail's "Ottawa Adds Debt at a Slower Pace". One title is quite optimistic vs. one which is neutral to pessimitic.... for the SAME STORY.

Given that the majority of Canadians want the gun registry, I think a more realistic dream is a modification to the law that will decriminalize not registering them.

[elkhunter11]

Polls done properly (e.g. not just polling hunters) have shown that the majority of canadians FAVOR keeping the registry.

So which polls,only allowed hunters to vote?

The ones conducted by the newspapers and media were visible to all people,and anyone could vote.Yet the overwhelming majority of voters were in favor of scrapping the registry.

How about the poll conducted by the police officer, polling all police officers,were they all hunters?Again the overwhelming majority voted to scrap the registry.

Which polls do you feel were conducted properly?

Are you an actual NDP party member,or do you just vote for the NDP?Or are you just so gullible that you actually believe the propaganda that they are spouting about the registry?

[DAVE]

The scary thing that bothers me is Tilaban jack and US iggy did not hire these people to be MP's the people voted them in. And they went against the people that gave them a job sad. Really why vote!

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So which polls,only allowed hunters to vote?

The ones conducted by the newspapers and media were visible to all people,and anyone could vote.Yet the overwhelming majority of voters were in favor of scrapping the registry.

How about the poll conducted by the police officer, polling all police officers,were they all hunters?Again the overwhelming majority voted to scrap the registry.

Which polls do you feel were conducted properly?

Are you an actual NDP party member,or do you just vote for the NDP?Or are you just so gullible that you actually believe the propaganda that they are spouting about the registry?

Please provide a reasoned response with factual information instead of inflammorty rhetoric. Obviously only a small minority of Canadians are police officers, so any poll of police officers does not represent Canadians.

Angus Reid poll September 21th, 2010

http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-con...0_Guns_CAN.pdf

If you have any poll that is more rigorous and recent than that please post.

Any online poll collected by the Calgary Herald is also not representative, as Albertans are only a minority in Canada. (please see earlier post re: different headlines in different papers).

[elkhunter11]

Polls done properly (e.g. not just polling hunters) have shown that the majority of canadians FAVOR keeping the registry.

Using the very link that you posted:

http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-con...0_Guns_CAN.pdf

The very last question asked was whether people supported or opposed scrapping the long gun registry'

The results were that

Urban

-support scrapping the registry-44%
-oppose scrapping the registry -40%


Therefore the majority of urban voters that gave an opinion were in favor of scrapping the registry,

Rural

-support scrapping the registry-53%
-oppose scrapping the registry-36%

Therefore the majority of rural voters that gave an opinion were even more in favor of scrapping the registry

Combining both the urban and rural voters-the majority of Canadians that gave an opinion supported scrapping the registry.

Please provide a reasoned response with factual information instead of inflammorty rhetoric.

Given the data taken from the poll that YOU feel was done properly,from YOUR OWN link,the data that YOU are portraying as factual, clearly shows that of the people that care enough to give an opinion either way,the majority of Canadians are in fact in favor of scrapping the registry.

By the way,thank you for providing the very link to the data that made it so easy to prove you wrong.

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Using the very link that you posted:

http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-con...0_Guns_CAN.pdf

The very last question asked was whether people supported or opposed scrapping the long gun registry'

The results were that

Urban

-support scrapping the registry-44%
-oppose scrapping the registry -40%


Therefore the majority of urban voters that gave an opinion were in favor of scrapping the registry,

Rural

-support scrapping the registry-53%
-oppose scrapping the registry-36%

Therefore the majority of rural voters that gave an opinion were even more in favor of scrapping the registry

Combining both the urban and rural voters-the majority of Canadians that gave an opinion supported scrapping the registry.




Given the data taken from the poll that YOU feel was done properly,from YOUR OWN link,the data that YOU are portraying as factual, clearly shows that of the people that care enough to give an opinion either way,the majority of Canadians are in fact in favor of scrapping the registry.

By the way,thank you for providing the very link to the data that made it so easy to prove you wrong.

Again, please read closer before you provide your response.....

Because more Canadians live in Urban areas than rural, the actual numbers are 46% in favor versus 40% (top right hand box shows summary).

Subgroup analysis by province, rural vs. urban shows varying support, but the overall number still supports it.

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Are you an actual NDP party member,or do you just vote for the NDP?Or are you just so gullible that you actually believe the propaganda that they are spouting about the registry?

Of course not. No have I said that not scrapping the legislation was what I believed in.

What I personally believe in is being well informed about an issue, recognizing majority opinion, then working an angle to promote the view of the special interest... in this case hunters & firearm owners.

So in this case, I recognize that it is extremely unlikely that the long gun registry will be removed. So I would rather focus energy at making it more palatable to the majority of Canadians as well as firearm owners. To me the chief goal would be to remove the "criminal" clause in legislation as it now stands.

Another example would be the whole grizzly bear debate. I think it would have been much better if hunters/AFGA etc. had focused their efforts on reinstating the hunt in the areas north of Grande Prairie. The study showed numbers have increased in that area, and potentially would had been a more achievable solution.

Compromise and diplomacy is modus operandi for modern soceity.... we can only achieve some of these goals through it.

[elkhunter11]

Again, please read closer before you provide your response..

I have read and reread the results,and they don't change.It is you that needs to read closer.

Because more Canadians live in Urban areas than rural, the actual numbers are 46% in favor versus 40% (top right hand box shows summary).

Why can't you understand that your own results show that 46% of Canadians support SCRAPPING the registry compared to only 40% of Canadians that oppose SCRAPPING the registry.

That means that the majority of Canadians that care are in favor of SCRAPPING the registry.

SCRAPPING the registry means getting rid of the registry,it does not mean keeping the registry.

Can you not understand the difference between supporting the scrapping of the registry and supporting the registry itself?

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have read and reread the results,and they don't change.It is you that needs to read closer.



Why can't you understand that your own results show that 46% of Canadians support SCRAPPING the registry compared to only 40% of Canadians that oppose SCRAPPING the registry.

That means that the majority of Canadians that care are in favor of SCRAPPING the registry.

SCRAPPING the registry means getting rid of the registry,it does not mean keeping the registry.

Can you not understand the difference between supporting the scrapping of the registry and supporting the registry itself?

That is because I am just learning to read.

[elkhunter11]

That is because I am just learning to read.

Based on your posts,your reading comprehension definitely is in question.

[Jadham]

I misread the poll I quote. Which means I admit I was wrong.


Notwithstanding, I am doubtful the gun registry will go and am certainly not holding my breath. We seem doomed to many years of minority government. Just a few monthes ago it looked like a slam dunk..

Although I am civil and enjoy talking about various topics on this board, it is unfortunate that some members cannot discuss things civilly and resort to personal attacks (calling someone a NDPer is worse than cursing).

[Trakker262]

Originally Posted by wolfman74

we are slowly losing all are rights gotta love our govenment....

Thought I'd give my thoughts on this but I'll just post a quote from a friend instead:

Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.

Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.

[bigoldan43]

Originally Posted by Trakker262

Thought I'd give my thoughts on this but I'll just post a quote from a friend instead:

Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.

Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.

Hard to dispute that comment I'm thinking. I'd hate to think our society would decay that far. But have a look at some of the former USSR states and the genocides that happened there.

I'll state again. Less talkin' more action'. Join the NFA. The only way we will win is to band together. Our big talk didn't work. Now we we have to try something different.