Wild Horse Cull

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pseelk

WB, The paper called it cull,You"ll have to take it up with them.

You are right.

The letter is propoganda from WHOAS. Calling the Feral Trapping program a cull is their perogative.


For everyone's information, the trapping program issues less than a hundred permits a year. Alberta Land's aerial horse survey show that Feral horse numbers in central foothills to be well over a thousand, at a minimum. At current levels, the trapping program will not reduce the continued population growth of these beasts.

Some of these trapped horses end up at the slaughter house, just like horses off the farm or ranch. Some of these trapped horses are broken and become working livestock.


Alberta Lands is NOT proposing to eliminate the feral horses. They might wish to, but they are not making such a proposal or plan.




Who has a problem with managing the population levels of feral horses?

Who feels that feral horses should be un-touchable?

Who hunts or fishes, but feels that feral horses must not be trapped at all?


Rocky, Sunset, don't be shy now.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Why do they refer to these horse as "Wild Horses"....

....shouldn't they be considered, "escaped or abandoned once domesticated horses"??

LC

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

id like to see a lick of proof that the horses are destroying the mountains, other than in some ones head

Where did you get the idea that anyone was saying "wild horses are destroying the mountains" must have been in your head.

If there was a huge concern about anything "destroying the back country" then maybe there would be "a cull on OHVs".

Feral horses do compete with wildlife (elk, moose and deer) for food, mineral licks, SPACE.

It would be difficult to eliminate all of them but reducing there numbers would be a good thing.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Who has a problem with managing the population levels of feral horses?

Who feels that feral horses should be un-touchable?

Who hunts or fishes, but feels that feral horses must not be trapped at all?


Rocky, Sunset, don't be shy now.

I don't speak for Sunset, but I don't have an issue with trapping wild horses if you want to bring one home. I came close to taking home a couple last year. Still might. Trapping them for a slaughter house is a horse of a different colour.

Regardless of who begat whom, they are there. They live and scratch out an existence and they aren't bothering anybody but those who take shytters into the hills every spring.

If you think some creek damage is intolerable or there should be easier winter range for ungulates, get rid of the cows. Speakin' of "feral" animals on the Eastern Slopes..... If you're not supporting getting rid of the cows, don't talk to me about how the horses need to be eliminated because they are not a natural inhabitant of the mountains or foothills. That would be the height of hypocrisy.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Why do they refer to these horse as "Wild Horses"....

....shouldn't they be considered, "escaped or abandoned once domesticated horses"??

LC

In the last 200 years of being wild i wouldnt consider them feral,, they would be a substantial self-sustaining gene pool.
Also management of all species are key to the maintaing workable levels,, however making it a cull is about as retarded as culling the muley deer and white tails in the eastern zones. As for the few that get caught and broke are miniscule, less than 1% it doesnt happen anymore, all it is is a ploy to fill someones pocket with slaughter plant funds on free horses.

[sunsetrider2011]

I may be biased and opinionated about this ,, and rightly so,, horse have packed my ass around for nere 50 years ,, helping me earn a living and enjoy the out doors. If it wasnt for the horse i wouldnt be here today,, they are an integral part of my livelyhood. However someone who doesnt know that or experienced that wouldn't have the slightest clue what it entails. Some one tells them somthing and they fall for it hook line and sinker.. Like i said I raise horses, have numbers in the hundreds and at one time in the thousands. yet I still feel that they have a purpose and served many purposes in our history of this country and deverve far more respect,, than they are getting because if it wasnt for the horses,, the majority of the western civilaization would not exist.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by duffy4

...It would be difficult to eliminate all of them....

disagree with that. alberta has the resources to do it,they just lack in leadership.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

In the last 200 years of being wild i wouldnt consider them feral,, they would be a substantial self-sustaining gene pool.
Also management of all species are key to the maintaing workable levels,, however making it a cull is about as retarded as culling the muley deer and white tails in the eastern zones. As for the few that get caught and broke are miniscule, less than 1% it doesnt happen anymore, all it is is a ploy to fill someones pocket with slaughter plant funds on free horses.

I understand that.....I was just making reference to how they got there in the first place, they didn't start out "wild".....200 years from now are we going to call the feral russian boars "wild" too?

LC

[slough shark]

If they are doing some thing to control the numbers I am all for it, not wipe them out but control them. Having one species in an area that doesn't have any population control measures but controling everything else gives an unfair advantage to that one species. I've seen them push elk out of certain prime feeding areas which is negative also having them around can lead to more predators. which leads to less elk. I'm just happy to see some form of control in place as there wasn't anything for the longest time.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I understand that.....I was just making reference to how they got there in the first place, they didn't start out "wild".....200 years from now are we going to call the feral russian boars "wild" too?

LC

200 was a reference point the spaniards actually reintroduced them over 500 years ago

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by slough shark

If they are doing some thing to control the numbers I am all for it, not wipe them out but control them. Having one species in an area that doesn't have any population control measures but controling everything else gives an unfair advantage to that one species. I've seen them push elk out of certain prime feeding areas which is negative also having them around can lead to more predators. which leads to less elk. I'm just happy to see some form of control in place as there wasn't anything for the longest time.

I think you may have it a lil backward,, wolves cougars and bears hunt the wild horses as well,, if you take them out of the equation it will put much more pressure on the deer elk and moose populations.

management of the herds is easy, You take the majority of the stallions out of the equation, bounce the nuts out of them put them back problem solved no more un managed procreation of the species They can not procreate with out testicles,,i am sure there are quite a few on the forum that can attest to that fact.

[Sloughsharkjigger]

Im sure if a bored lawyer reads the " Stray Aninmal Act" and argues that a horse is a domestic animal, wild or not, someone or some state should be responsible for those animals.

[sunsetrider2011]

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779736638

Capturing
7(1) A licence holder shall not use a snare, weapon or vehicle to
capture or attempt to capture a horse.
(2) In this section,
(a) “snare” means a device that consists of or includes a
cable, rope, wire or other form of material and that is used
or set to capture a horse by tightening a loop around the
neck, foot or leg, with the energy to tighten it coming
from the horse or from a spring, triggering device or other
mechanism;
(b) “vehicle” means a motorized device, including a boat or
aircraft, in or by which a person or thing may be
transported;
(c) “weapon” means a firearm or other projectile propelling
device used to frighten, injure or kill.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

I think you may have it a lil backward,, wolves cougars and bears hunt the wild horses as well,, if you take them out of the equation it will put much more pressure on the deer elk and moose populations.

management of the herds is easy, You take the majority of the stallions out of the equation, bounce the nuts out of them put them back problem solved no more un managed procreation of the species They can not procreate with out testicles,,i am sure there are quite a few on the forum that can attest to that fact.

I understand where you are coming from but if the habitat will support a certain number of prey animals. If one were to remove a large number of them (horse "cull") the predators would have a much harder time finding enough food. No doubt a few elk and moose may get eaten initially but a large number of the predators may die off in the process and allow the prey animals to bounce back in a more balanced proportion more equal numbers of elk, moose, deer and horses rather than the skewed populations we're seeing now, this is assuming that F&W keeps this "cull" up to keep these things in balance of course...

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

200 was a reference point the spaniards actually reintroduced them over 500 years ago

....ok 500 years from now, are the russian wild boars going to be considered "wild" ? .....I think you understand what I am getting at

LC

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by slough shark

I understand where you are coming from but if the habitat will support a certain number of prey animals. If one were to remove a large number of them (horse "cull") the predators would have a much harder time finding enough food. No doubt a few elk and moose may get eaten initially but a large number of the predators may die off in the process and allow the prey animals to bounce back in a more balanced proportion more equal numbers of elk, moose, deer and horses rather than the skewed populations we're seeing now, this is assuming that F&W keeps this "cull" up to keep these things in balance of course...

I dont think that will be the issue they will just shift the ballance to the other prey animals moreso as the horses,,wouldnt be there to fill the gap, predators are oportunistic hunters ,,it doesnt matter what they hunt as long as its a meal, wolves, coyotes , bears , cougars are all the same,, they go where they can get a meal.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

....ok 500 years from now, are the russian wild boars going to be considered "wild" ? .....I think you understand what I am getting at

LC

In that generation Lefty who knows what their mind set will be,,more than likely all wild animlas will be whiped off the planet and our conservation efferts will be for not. Because some one figured they need to cull a species. because they felt it dint fit ino their so called plan.

[sunsetrider2011]

So after reading the Horse capture act, explain to me how they are going to cull these animals with in the legal requirements that are set in place to do so.

Come on all you yay sayers lets here how they are going to do this cull with in the regulated laws of alberta. Not that i want to start an argument,, But i really would like to know.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

If horses weren't an introduced species some of the arguements here would make sense....if.......................

Lets get our facts straight. Your an introduced species sheep hunter. Horses were here before any Europeans. They came across the land bridge just like the first nations folks. First nations folks ate them all. The Spanish reintroduced them in 1492. Both arrival/introduction of horses predate colonization of the region. If your desperate to cull a new species go look in a mirror for your target.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Lets get our facts straight. Your an introduced species sheep hunter. Horses were here before any Europeans. They came across the land bridge just like the first nations folks. First nations folks ate them all. The Spanish reintroduced them in 1492. Both arrival/introduction of horses predate colonization of the region. If your desperate to cull a new species go look in a mirror for your target.

Now Uglyelk,, that was something i hadnt racked my brain about yet, good catch ,,

[vcmm]

This came to mind,Kinda sounds like a friend to me.

A Horse's Prayer
Author Unknown



To thee, my Master, I offer my prayer.
Feed me, water and care for me, and when the day's work is done, provide me with shelter, a clean, dry bed, and stall wide enough for me to lie down in comfort.

Always be kind to me. Your voice often means as much to me as the reins. Pet me sometimes, that I may serve you the more gladly and learn to love you. Do not jerk the reins, and do not whip me when going uphill. Never strike, beat, or kick me when I do not understand you. Watch me, and if I fail to do your bidding, see if something is not wrong with my harness or feet.

Do not check me so that I cannot have free use of my head. If you insist that I wear blinkers, so that I cannot see behind me as it was intended I should, I pray you be careful that the blinders stand well out of my eyes. Do not overload me, or hitch me where water will drip on me. Keep me well shod. Examine my teeth when I do not eat, I may have an ulcerated tooth, and that, you know, is very painful. Do not tie my head in an unnatural position, or take away my best defense against flies and mosquitoes by cutting off my tail.

I cannot tell you when I am thirsty, so give me clean, cool water often. Save me, by all means in your power from that fatal disease - the glanders. I cannot tell you in words when I am sick, so watch me, that by signs you may know my condition. Give me all possible shelter from the hot sun, and put a blanket on me, not when I am working, but when I am standing in the cold. Never put a frosty bit in my mouth, first warm it by holding it a moment in your hands.

I try to carry you and your burden without a murmur, and wait patiently for you long hours of the day or night. Without the power to choose my shoes or path, I sometimes fall on hard pavement which I have often prayed might not be of wood but of such a nature as to give me safe and sure footing. Remember that I must be ready at any moment to lose my life in your service.

And finally, oh my Master, when my useful strength is gone, do not turn me out to starve or freeze, or sell me to some cruel owner, to be slowly tortured and starved to death, but do thou, My Master, take my life in the kindest way, and your God will reward you here and hereafter. You will not consider me irreverent if I ask this in the name of Him who was born in a stable.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

I dont think that will be the issue they will just shift the ballance to the other prey animals moreso as the horses,,wouldnt be there to fill the gap, predators are oportunistic hunters ,,it doesnt matter what they hunt as long as its a meal, wolves, coyotes , bears , cougars are all the same,, they go where they can get a meal.

Agreed they're opportunistic hunters, I'm just saying removing some of the opportunities may lead to fewer predators. Controling all species of prey animals will I would think eventually lead to a balanced prey makeup. There will invariably be an initial downward cycle of prey animals as the wolves will eat what they can find but once the wolves hit their low point of the cycle the rebound should come back back balanced. Of course this is assuming and hoping that F&W continues their horse control program... If F&W wanted to avoid the this cycle they could do something about the wolves as well but we can only dream. I'm not saying kill everything but the elk, moose and deer as everything has it's place but it would be great to see things in better balance rather than the skewed wildlife populations I have seen in a few areas in (skewed in favour of horses and wolves)

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

I may be biased and opinionated about this ,, and rightly so,, horse have packed my ass around for nere 50 years ,, helping me earn a living and enjoy the out doors. If it wasnt for the horse i wouldnt be here today,, they are an integral part of my livelyhood. However someone who doesnt know that or experienced that wouldn't have the slightest clue what it entails. Some one tells them somthing and they fall for it hook line and sinker.. Like i said I raise horses, have numbers in the hundreds and at one time in the thousands. yet I still feel that they have a purpose and served many purposes in our history of this country and deverve far more respect,, than they are getting because if it wasnt for the horses,, the majority of the western civilaization would not exist.

I've got a couple years on you if we are comparing resumes so I feel I've got the slighest clue. Tame horses are great....feral ones aren't. There is no arguement for their continued existence in the wild other than emotion and emotion shouldn't rule the management of our wildlife. They serve zero useful purpose in the wild and compete directly with our native ungulates. Tame horses are all the reminder I need of how the west was won.

[Walleyes]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Lets get our facts straight. Your an introduced species sheep hunter. Horses were here before any Europeans. They came across the land bridge just like the first nations folks. First nations folks ate them all. The Spanish reintroduced them in 1492. Both arrival/introduction of horses predate colonization of the region. If your desperate to cull a new species go look in a mirror for your target.

Oh for crying out loud,, now we are putting the life value of a few animals over that of a human ??

Look no one is advocating the eradication of these useless critters just a cull to lower their numbers.. Leave the poor little critter thoughts at home,, rode one and raised them, what ever,, they are just an animal, horse, dog, cat, wolf what ever at certain times we as the superior creature have to do what has to be done and control populations for the over all good of all creatures involved.. Its really not that hard to figure out, just leave emotions out of it..

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

Like i said we can do that this next spring or so. maybe even into the summer to scout for sheep as well.

I truely want to see this distruction first hand, and I am sure i have a few other people that would love to see this destruction that was soley done by horses. More than likely any of my wildy crew would love to see this. so lets set something Up sheep i am more than game.

I wouldn't count on much sheep scouting...there used to be lots in the area and lots of elk and deer too.....not so much any more.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I've got a couple years on you if we are comparing resumes so I feel I've got the slighest clue. Tame horses are great....feral ones aren't. There is no arguement for their continued existence in the wild other than emotion and emotion shouldn't rule the management of our wildlife. They serve zero useful purpose in the wild and compete directly with our native ungulates. Tame horses are all the reminder I need of how the west was won.

Then you of all people know exactly where I am coming from. The thing still remains a couple hundred years the majority of these horse have run freely, yes there maybe other horses over the course of the last century that have mixed with the herds, it happens so be it,, however they were still there before you and I sheep. this is what I am getting at. I have caught wildies over the years,, and I have found some of them to have more heart than a domesticated horse ever had. I think that in it self is reason enough to let the wildies be.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

There is no arguement for their continued existence in the wild other than emotion and emotion shouldn't rule the management of our wildlife. They serve zero useful purpose in the wild and compete directly with our native ungulates.

Just repeating it in case any of the wild pony lovers skim to quickly.

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

Makes no never mind really,, your of the mindset to kill them all, makes you no better than anyone else. they are still living breathing animals

Never said I was better than anyone else, I guess you dont have to agree but you dont have to get personal either

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Lets get our facts straight. Your an introduced species sheep hunter. Horses were here before any Europeans. They came across the land bridge just like the first nations folks. First nations folks ate them all. The Spanish reintroduced them in 1492. Both arrival/introduction of horses predate colonization of the region. If your desperate to cull a new species go look in a mirror for your target.

Wow...

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

Oh for crying out loud,, now we are putting the life value of a few animals over that of a human ??

Look no one is advocating the eradication of these useless critters just a cull to lower their numbers.. Leave the poor little critter thoughts at home,, rode one and raised them, what ever,, they are just an animal, horse, dog, cat, wolf what ever at certain times we as the superior creature have to do what has to be done and control populations for the over all good of all creatures involved.. Its really not that hard to figure out, just leave emotions out of it..

Walleyes I would put a lot more worth in horses than i would some people ,, and that is a fact. and I would put alot more worth in other animals than some people. Management is important in all species,, when are they going to put management in place for bipeds?Humanoids?