Baiting In Alberta

[justinO]

Another question that was just answered from that site.
How does CWD spread?
Once again It is not known exactly how CWD is transmitted. The infectious agent may be passed in feces, urine or saliva. Transmission is thought to be lateral (from animal to animal). Although maternal transmission (from mother to fetus) may occur

After doing a day of research this is just my opinion
The more we test the more we will find. Just like cancer, and aids was not around 1000 years ago people would just die due to unknown reasons it was only found when testing was done recently. This is my only problem I have with the CWD topic. How can we be sure our deer and elk herds have not been with CWD for thousands of years if no one knows how or where it came from.
Mother nature works in drastic swings of population survival of the fittest. For example over population leads to disease, the sick and weak get killed by wolves winters etc etc. This is without human interference.

Maybe with the introduction of farming and human involvement these sick deer are living longer due to extra food less predators etc causing disease to spread instead of them dieing sooner.. Just thinking out loud here

[Speckle55]

here is another post CWD was around for years before in other areas
Diseases
About Prion Diseases

Cattle at a trough, and a buck deer in the wild. (Courtesy Ermias Belay)

Prion diseases or transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) are a family of rare progressive neurodegenerative disorders that affect both humans and animals. They are distinguished by long incubation periods, characteristic spongiform changes associated with neuronal loss, and a failure to induce inflammatory response.

The causative agents of TSEs are believed to be prions. The term "prions" refers to abnormal, pathogenic agents that are transmissible and are able to induce abnormal folding of specific normal cellular proteins called prion proteins that are found most abundantly in the brain. The functions of these normal prion proteins are still not completely understood. The abnormal folding of the prion proteins leads to brain damage and the characteristic signs and symptoms of the disease. Prion diseases are usually rapidly progressive and always fatal.

A List of Prion Diseases

Listed below are the prion diseases identified to date. Click the linked diseases to go to their respective topic sites. CDC does not currently offer information here on every prion disease listed.

Human Prion Diseases
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD)
Gerstmann-Straussler-Scheinker Syndrome
Fatal Familial Insomnia
Kuru

Animal Prion Diseases
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE)
Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)
Scrapie
Transmissible mink encephalopathy
Feline spongiform encephalopathy
Ungulate spongiform encephalopathy

Links to Organizations Outside CDC

National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center
(From the Division of Neuropathology, Case Western Reserve University. National CJD surveillance system established in collaboration with CDC.)

Resources

BSE/TSE Action Plan of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS)
The BSE/TSE Action Plan of DHHS has four major components:
Surveillance for human disease is primarily the responsibility of CDC.
Protection is primarily the responsibility of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Research is primarily the responsibility of the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Oversight is primarily the responsibility of the Office of the Secretary of DHHS.

Press Release: HHS Launches Expanded Plan to Combat "Mad Cow Disease"
On DHHS site

The Public Health Impact of Prion Diseases
Belay E., Schonberger L. Annu. Rev. Public Health 2005;26:191-212
PDF format (198 KB/25 pages)

Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies in Humans
Belay E. Annu. Rev. Microbiol. 1999;53:283-314
PDF format (208 KB/32 pages)

WHO Infection Control Guidelines for Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies: Report of a WHO Consultation, Geneva, Switzerland, 23-26 March 1999
(From the World Health Organization)

Reference in this website to any specific commercial products, process, service, manufacturer, or company does not constitute its endorsement or recommendation by the U.S. Government or CDC. CDC is not responsible for the contents of any "off-site" web page referenced from this server.



Date: December 5, 2011
Content source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases (NCEZID)
Division of High-Consequence Pathogens and Pathology (DHC

Topic Home
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE)

Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)

Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, Classic (CJD)

Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD)

Contact CDC

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases (NCEZID)
Division of High-Consequence Pathogens and Pathology (DHCPP)


1 (800) CDC-INFO (232-4636)
TTY: 1 (888) 232-6348


E-mail:
prion@cdc.gov


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from CDC i posted it in another before
David

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Justin O most of your questions can be answer in www.cwd-info.org wish more people would read up on this and inform others

ps Dr Val Giest warn us about bringing Elk from Colorado and Game Farms and got death threats in 1980's as the game farmers had MLA's that were related

he has writen many paper on CWD and others if you want to really get into the finer details .. CDC paper show the differn,t Prion names he said they are the same as it has jumped spieces all ready

the thing to do is slow it at the border and keep it there as in 20 or so years it will stop there or we will have other ways of stopping the spread as of right now we need time to find answers if you look at Colorado its everywhere is that what you want in Alberta in some spots its 25% of the herds

Food for Thought

David

David

Holy cow. U know what i think David. Lets be proactive and cull all the way to edmonton , hammer every zone east of strathcona and let the hunters do the dirty work so we can keep ahead of the cancer. Everyone has bright ideas when it doesn't affect their hunting zone. We keep this up and i might as well sell my guns and quit deer hunting. If this cwd bs was in the zone u hunted in for 25 years i bet u would have a different view. The cull never worked the lower densities of deer aren't working and according to the sticky above it's spreading at an alarming rate. Last i checked they aren't slowing it as suggested. No deer are no deer , they aren't stopping it but destroying a resource close to my home and ruining deer hunting for local residents here. I would buy all this arguement if they could prove to me cwd doesn't exist through out the province. If this prion lives in the soil , what are the chances these contaminated elk farms in zones west of the border don't contain cwd infected deer ? i have a feeling someone doesn't want to know cuz as far as i'm concerned sampling a couple hundred heads around an infected deer farm and collecting a few road kills is not enough evidence for me. We all think we have the facts but til you can prove my theory i don't agree with any of it. They have tested thousands of heads along the border to find a handful of infected deer. Can we confidently say a couple hundred samples near a contaminated deer or elk farm is enough evidence to clear the western side of the province and say its cwd free? Instead we keep throwing up the links the gov is trying to convince the public they have the answers. Well they don't because if they did they wouldn't have buried cwd carcasses in pits where this prion may surface someday as it lives in the soil. Have i lost my trust in the gov and their efforts. Yes i have. Do they have any idea the mess they have created by allowing elk and deer farms in alberta? I say not last i checked we still have game farms with jn alberta. Do i have the answer to the problem. No i don't but no deer is no deer anyway you slice it. One thing i've learned when u tap root a serious problem and ignore it and allow it to continue it's like the dog chasing his own tail and never catches it. Bury our heads in the sand ? I say the gov is doing a fine job of it.

[Speckle55]

wow your blowing because u haven't read enough and have a better understanding in the end if you do nothing you will have nothing in 30 years as in some areas in Col where it started .. in the end its the same as Mad Cow and look what they did in Europe they have contained it and now have controls in place to stop it.. CDC does this every day with other contagions.. just think if we did nothing with Ebolo or other diseases.. please inform your self and understand to do nothing is not a option

in Europe prions stay active for 14 to 16 years in one pen and re-infected animals put into the one than was not disinfected .. these are a paper writen on prions and reports

uninformed people make uninformed decisions please read and inform yourselfs

Food for Thought

David

Ps some cancers are being beaten as we speak or stopped and put into remission lets do that with this CWD

Thanks for informing yourself and allways asking questions

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

I know for a fact that if you point a F&W Officer in the direction of these farmers/hunters, they will prove you wrong.

I know for a fact that they won't. Repeatedly. So much that I report nothing anymore.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

wow your blowing because u haven't read enough and have a better understanding in the end if you do nothing you will have nothing in 30 years as in some areas in Col where it started .. in the end its the same as Mad Cow and look what they did in Europe they have contained it and now have controls in place to stop it.. CDC does this every day with other contagions.. just think if we did nothing with Ebolo or other diseases.. please inform your self and understand to do nothing is not a option

Food for Thought

David

Ps some cancers are being beaten as we speak or stopped and put into remission lets do that with this CWD

Thanks for informing yourself and allways asking questions

Hey David
You obviously don't care to read my post, but that's fine...... You believe what you want to believe........ They have been trying to do something about it?...... Is it working?........ Read the sticky above?.....

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Hey David
You obviously don't care to read my post, but that's fine...... You believe what you want to believe........ They have been trying to do something about it?...... Is it working?........ Read the sticky above?.....

if you had a disease they would put a quarantine ...on you ...can we do this with the animals in some zones or do you want all zones to get it

what did i miss in your post ..
i am scientific and inform myself and ask Trent Bollinger and Margo etc about issues and try to keep up with the changes by reading the latest science on this issue from the begining

David

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

In Sask there has been CWD animals show up in 16 of 76 zones or 21%. This would be from 1997 until April of 2011.

thats some interesting arithmetic. the real numbers that matter are infected animals in number of heads tested. in both alberta and saskatchewan, infection rates are running less than 1%.....actually pretty close to a half of one percent.

Originally Posted by Speckle55

wow your blowing because u haven't read enough and have a better understanding in the end if you do nothing you will have nothing in 30 years as in some areas in Col where it started .. in the end its the same as Mad Cow and look what they did in Europe they have contained it and now have controls in place to stop it.. CDC does this every day with other contagions.. just think if we did nothing with Ebolo or other diseases.. please inform your self and understand to do nothing is not a option

actually david, you may need to catch up. colorado has been dealing with this for 45 years now, and they have deer densities around 10 times higher than we do....not to mention elk at around 30 times what we have. in 30 years, we will likely have around a 2% infection if you extropolate the numbers based on what has been observed in the state that has dealt with this the longest. one particualr thing to note is that there is still a small pocket of colorado that has ZERO infection after all this time.

i find it best to examine available data from sources based in colorado and wyoming and not the BS that srd in alberta is peddling. to do nothign is no worse than standing by....given that NOTHING tried so far has had any effect. you could argue that the culls are actually doing damage to the herds. there has never been 100% infection even in captive herds. many experts believe that some animals are immune to this disease, and by culling thousands of healthy deer, you are actually removing those safe animals. still just a theory, but whats proven is that culls are completly inneffective because of the persistence of the disease long after the host is gone. your ebola example works well for viral infections...but this is very different.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

thats some interesting arithmetic. the real numbers that matter are infected animals in number of heads tested. in both alberta and saskatchewan, infection rates are running less than 1%.....actually pretty close to a half of one percent.



actually david, you may need to catch up. colorado has been dealing with this for 45 years now, and they have deer densities around 10 times higher than we do....not to mention elk at around 30 times what we have. in 30 years, we will likely have around a 2% infection if you extropolate the numbers based on what has been observed in the state that has dealt with this the longest. one particualr thing to note is that there is still a small pocket of colorado that has ZERO infection after all this time.

i find it best to examine available data from sources based in colorado and wyoming and not the BS that srd in alberta is peddling. to do nothign is no worse than standing by....given that NOTHING tried so far has had any effect. you could argue that the culls are actually doing damage to the herds. there has never been 100% infection even in captive herds. many experts believe that some animals are immune to this disease, and by culling thousands of healthy deer, you are actually removing those safe animals. still just a theory, but whats proven is that culls are completly inneffective because of the persistence of the disease long after the host is gone. your ebola example works well for viral infections...but this is very different.

Dale where do you get your numbers can you post studys as i said the infected rate in some Elk herds is 25 % and in some areas of Col the deer density is very very low in the reports i have read .. most of those reports i am talking about are or were posted at www.CWd-info.org .. and if you read the lastest info reducing the deer population in infected areas is one step to keep the rate to a lower percent .. also what do u understand as to the way to handle this disease? we have spots that have 170 ungulates per square mile as you are aware of
David

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

if you had a disease they would put a quarantine ...on you ...can we do this with the animals in some zones or do you want all zones to get it

what did i miss in your post ..
i am scientific and inform myself and ask Trent Bollinger and Margo etc about issues and try to keep up with the changes by reading the latest science on this issue from the begining

David

Hey David
I asked you some particular questions, that you choose to dodge
There is another poster on here who does the same and only answers the questions they want to...... Now go back and reread my post and answer to the best of your knowlege , And I suggest you phone the number you provided me and ask the questions that should be asked..... Your dodging it cuz heaven forbid we find cwd infected deer as far west as contaminated elk farms are away from the border...My biggest concern is it's further into the province then we think we know and the gov wants to lead us to believe..... Let's point the finger at the border and at our Sask friends..... Easy out don't you think?.... If we don't test we don't have cwd it's that simple, and no a couple hundred random heads don't cut it for me.... I'm not buying what your trying to sell

[Speckle55]

also in the pen that was left empty for 14 years in Europe they put in 3 animals all three died of prion disease .. 100 pecent infection rate in pen animals

Europe is still working at keeping it in check and because of higher human population numbers they have found pockets of CJD in human'a and have related it to eating infected animals

in talk to Val Geist he said just remember what they told you about smoking 40 years ago and don,t believe it can,t infect humans .. thats why they say don,t eat any infected animals..

David

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Hey David
I asked you some particular questions, that you choose to dodge
There is another poster on here who does the same and only answers the questions they want to...... Now go back and reread my post and answer to the best of your knowlege , And I suggest you phone the number you provided me and ask the questions that should be asked..... Your dodging it cuz heaven forbid we find cwd infected deer as far west as contaminated elk farms are away from the border...My biggest concern is it's further into the province then we think we know and the gov wants to lead us to believe..... Let's point the finger at the border and at our Sask friends..... Easy out don't you think?.... If we don't test we don't have cwd it's that simple, and no a couple hundred random heads don't cut it for me.... I'm not buying what your trying to sell

Nikon can you relist your questions as in 1/2/3

i can,t answer as to assuming that its further into the province as there are head tested and none yet have tested postive that they are posting .. i could say that there are lots of conspiracy therorys but i won,t

David

[Speckle55]

if you read this overview hope it answer some of your questions and it is not from the Alberta Gov its for the science community

David


http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fu...about.overview

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Nikon can you relist your questions as in 1/2/3

i can,t answer as to assuming that its further into the province as there are head tested and none yet have tested postive that they are posting .. i could say that there are lots of conspiracy therorys but i won,t

David

Ok
Heres question 1. Is a few hundred samples around a cwd postive elk farm enough to clear a particular zone and call it cwd free? along with a few random road kills province wide? would you feel a couple thousand or a mandatory head submission would be alot more accurate knowing thousands of heads along the border tested only produce a handful of positive cases?

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Ok
Heres question 1. Is a few hundred samples around a cwd postive elk farm enough to clear a particular zone and call it cwd free? along with a few random road kills province wide? would you feel a couple thousand or a mandatory head submission would be alot more accurate knowing thousands of heads along the border tested only produce a handful of positive cases?

they did do survailance in those areas and have got no postive deer and if they were dieing of it we hunters would find the bodys and turn them in

In one report it was quoted 30 million in Sask for testing per year

if they get one head from any area its put under the CWD head program

David

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

they did do survailance in those areas and have got no postive deer and if they were dieing of it we hunters would find the bodys and turn them in

In one report it was quoted 30 million in Sask for testing per year

if they get one head from any area its put under the CWD head program

David

OK
Yah you answered my question once again, what are you afraid of?

Carry on

Nikon

[Speckle55]

I am afraid of wasting public money to prove your assumption wrong here is the lastest info as of 2012 of where in North America they have found CWD

David

http://www.cwd-info.org/images/CWDmaphi.jpg

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I am afraid of wasting public money to prove your assumption wrong here is the lastest info as of 2012 of where in North America they have found CWD

David

http://www.cwd-info.org/images/CWDmaphi.jpg

It isn't an assumption, basing it on the number of heads submitted along the border to find a handful of effected deer..... Is it?.... Do a few hundred heads , and road kills submitted around a cwd deer or elk farm clear the western side of the province of cwd? Would it be a waste of money to have done a mandatory head submission in these zones to get accurate data and possibly slow the spread to other zones from around the cwd elk farms?
I think your afraid of finding cwd further west then you have been led to believe.....You continue to dodge my questions , just like another poster

they did do survailance in those areas and have got no postive deer and if they were dieing of it we hunters would find the bodys and turn them inThis is an absolute line of _ _
Nikon

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by NIKON

It isn't an assumption, basing it on the number of heads submitted along the border to find a handful of effected deer..... Is it?.... Do a few hundred heads , and road kills submitted around a cwd deer or elk farm clear the western side of the province of cwd? Would it be a waste of money to have done a mandatory head submission in these zones to get accurate data and possibly slow the spread to other zones from around the cwd elk farms?
I think your afraid of finding cwd further west then you have been led to believe.....You continue to dodge my questions , just like another poster

they did do survailance in those areas and have got no postive deer and if they were dieing of it we hunters would find the bodys and turn them inI'm gonna be nice and call this statement skewed...
Nikon

David
I"m basing some assumptions on data like this , based on this would you feel a few hundred sample collected along with random road kills submitted province wide or around a Known infected deer or elk farm ( west of the border around Edmonton)accurate enough to declare the western side of the province cwd free?....Yes or NO? Easy to answer it's one or the other with out throwing another link up

Testing of the fall hunter samples for CWD has now been completed. Out of more than 2,900 deer heads submitted, four diseased deer were found. This brings the total to 17 cases confirmed in wild deer in Alberta, which was first detected in 2005.
http://www.alberta.ca/acn/200702/210...5C4CEA186.html

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by NIKON

David
I"m basing some assumptions on data like this , based on this would you feel a few hundred sample collected along with random road kills submitted province wide or around a Known infected deer or elk farm ( west of the border around Edmonton)accurate enough to declare the western side of the province cwd free?....Yes or NO? Easy to answer it's one or the other with out throwing another link up

Testing of the fall hunter samples for CWD has now been completed. Out of more than 2,900 deer heads submitted, four diseased deer were found. This brings the total to 17 cases confirmed in wild deer in Alberta, which was first detected in 2005.
http://www.alberta.ca/acn/200702/210...5C4CEA186.html

Check your source. That is from 2007. Lets get to today.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$departm...sf/all/cpv7958

Oops sorry government link. Know that won't hold water with you. Sorry but the info is correct.

127 cases of CWD found as of August 2012.

Then lets look at how many animals are tested.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$departm...sf/all/cpv9448

So about 50,000 farmed elk have been tested over the years. That is a pretty large statistical number. One positive elk in 2002. The rest negative. Seems there is a very low to zero infection rate in farmed elk in this Province. Just looking at the numbers.

About 11,000 farmed deer tested. Two positives in 2002. Same thing as the elk.


Ok, now about 800 wild elk have been tested. Zero positive, but not a very high statistical number. More testing needed, but relatively certain that there is not a very high infection rate if any. I am sure that more testing will be ordered on the eastern portion of the province.

Around 22, 000 wild deer have been tested. Here we have a higher infection rate hence increased testing. Still haven't reached the level of testing of the farmed animals but have a much higher positive rate. (Not defending farmed animals, just posting the facts.)

Seems to me that is why we are testing where we are testing. We can see from the yearly maps of the infection zones that it is moving west from Saskatchewan where it originated (in our little part of the world).

As to testing around the positive farms, F&W's website has this. In response to finding CWD on two game farms in central Alberta, the Fish and Wildlife Division sampled wild deer in the vicinity of the farms in late February/early March 2003.

All 320 deer and elk collected were negative for CWD. Ongoing hunter surveillance in the area from fall 2002 to fall 2005 did not detect any evidence of CWD in wild deer.

320 samples doesn't sound like a lot, but out of a local population I would say that was a pretty good sample size.

http://srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/W...InAlberta.aspx

Is it possible that CWD is natural? Sure its possible. Is it probable that its natural and has always been here? Doubt it. Seems that its been pretty well mapped and followed.

Answer your question enough hoss?

[NIKON]

Donkey
As to testing around the positive farms, F&W's website has this. In response to finding CWD on two game farms in central Alberta, the Fish and Wildlife Division sampled wild deer in the vicinity of the farms in late February/early March 2003.

All 320 deer and elk collected were negative for CWD. Ongoing hunter surveillance in the area from fall 2002 to fall 2005 did not detect any evidence of CWD in wild deer.

320 samples doesn't sound like a lot, but out of a local population I would say that was a pretty good sample size.

HUH???? 320?
This is a pretty good sample? but yet you say it doesn't sound like alot as you quoted,cuz it's not, I rest my case

Now I was using an example of data collected in 2007 as an example of a percentage which worked out to 0.13% of heads tested were positive.. I'm not debating cwd is along the border. it's there .
How can you say 320 heads is even close to representable.....

n late March and early April of 2005 a similar cull took place when a total of 486 deer were culled from what was termed a ?small high-risk area? east of Chauvin. Despite culling these animals, no positive cases of CWD were found.

http://www.meridianbooster.com/2006/...uvin-deer-cull
From this cull in an known small high risk area of 486 animals tested negative.
So if we would have based our results on this low deer submission it's obvious the results are skewed.... agreed?

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Donkey
As to testing around the positive farms, F&W's website has this. In response to finding CWD on two game farms in central Alberta, the Fish and Wildlife Division sampled wild deer in the vicinity of the farms in late February/early March 2003.

All 320 deer and elk collected were negative for CWD. Ongoing hunter surveillance in the area from fall 2002 to fall 2005 did not detect any evidence of CWD in wild deer.

320 samples doesn't sound like a lot, but out of a local population I would say that was a pretty good sample size.

HUH???? 320?
This is a pretty good sample? but yet you say it doesn't sound like alot as you quoted,cuz it's not, I rest my case

Now I was using an example of data collected in 2007 as an example of a percentage which worked out to 0.13% of heads tested were positive.. I'm not debating cwd is along the border. it's there .
How can you say 320 heads is even close to representable.....

n late March and early April of 2005 a similar cull took place when a total of 486 deer were culled from what was termed a ?small high-risk area? east of Chauvin. Despite culling these animals, no positive cases of CWD were found.

http://www.meridianbooster.com/2006/...uvin-deer-cull
From this cull in an known small high risk area of 486 animals tested negative.
So if we would have based our results on this low deer submission it's obvious the results are skewed.... agreed?

Guess you don't know much about scientific method. I said the sample size looks small, and it is if you take in to consideration that there are about 50,000 elk and a half million deer in the entire province. But if you look at the local population in the area sampled around the positive farms, it is a fairly representative sample for a localized area. And that is what F&W wanted, a representative sample of the local area around the infected farms to see if the prion had spread to the wild or came from the wild. It didn't.


Sorry can't reasonably debate or have a discussion with someone that sees conspiracies everywhere. And all data can be skewed. Wearing a tinfoil hat won't help you.

[IHUNT]

Originally Posted by mmiddlemiss

I am fairly new to reading all these threads, so I am sure that this topic has been discussed before.

I am wondering what everyone's thoughts/comments are if Alberta legalized baiting deer?

I am not saying that I want this to happen or that I would agree with it, just wanted to know where everyone else stands on this topic.

Baiting is for LAZY hunters!!!!!

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Guess you don't know much about scientific method. I said the sample size looks small, and it is if you take in to consideration that there are about 50,000 elk and a half million deer in the entire province. But if you look at the local population in the area sampled around the positive farms, it is a fairly representative sample for a localized area. And that is what F&W wanted, a representative sample of the local area around the infected farms to see if the prion had spread to the wild or came from the wild. It didn't.


Sorry can't reasonably debate or have a discussion with someone that sees conspiracies everywhere. And all data can be skewed. Wearing a tinfoil hat won't help you.

LOL...... It's far from conspiracies, quite obvious you aren't open for debate cuz heaven forbid theres cwd in the western side of the province.....lol...you refuse to see my point , stubborn? perhaps....
You want to sling mud......Donkey?.... it's quite fitting,

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by NIKON

LOL...... It's far from conspiracies, quite obvious you aren't open for debate cuz heaven forbid theres cwd in the western side of the province.....lol...
You want to sling mud......Donkey?.... it's quite fitting,

OK I will come out and say it. Right now there is no CWD in wild populations on the western portion of the province, YET. It is coming. It is moving.

You can theorize, or guess, or assume, or whatever. CWD is moving from the east to the west. It is just smoke and mirrors saying what you are saying.

And if you are so worried that there is CWD in the western portion of the province then you are able to submit your harvested heads for testing. Please do.

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Is it possible that CWD is natural? Sure its possible. Is it probable that its natural and has always been here? Doubt it. Seems that its been pretty well mapped and followed.

Answer your question enough hoss?

After researching yesterday your two answers are opinion based no one knows When CWD started, How it started or how exactly it is transferred. To assume it has not been around for milenia is just an opinion same as how it is spread through BAITING like so many have said on this thread, not one scientist has any proof its just an opinion. The only fact is a very small percentage of deer and elk have it and the first time it was found was in the 60's as this was when testing started. If this is the case how in 40+ years has CWD not spread throughout north America like cancer as some would say? What has more of an affect on our Game population CWD or the poor management from our province such as killing all the doe's in Alberta?

But I have to tapp out on researching this issue as I have my own 50 page thesis paper to write, and all I have found to my questions is the same answer it is unknown.
If someone continues researching this topic and can find factual information as to WHERE CWD originated? (Not in 1967 because of a test I know this already) How CWD originated? How CWD is transferred? And if this is a natural disease or something created through human involvement.
Please P.M me
Thanks in Advance
Justin

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

OK I will come out and say it. Right now there is no CWD in wild populations on the western portion of the province, YET. It is coming. It is moving.

You can theorize, or guess, or assume, or whatever. CWD is moving from the east to the west. It is just smoke and mirrors saying what you are saying.

And if you are so worried that there is CWD in the western portion of the province then you are able to submit your harvested heads for testing. Please do.

Your changing the subject again
I'm debating is the samples collected around a cwd positive elk farm accurate?
Based on percentages found in known cwd areas?
Quit going off in 3 different directions

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Your changing the subject again
I'm debating is the samples collected around a cwd positive elk farm accurate?
Based on percentages found in known cwd areas?
Quit going off in 3 different directions

Round and round and round and round.

F&W decided that the amount sampled was enough of a representative sample to be satisfied. Talk to Dr. Margo Pybus sometime. She has no love of game farms. She would be the one that decided how many samples were enough.

And we are over 10yrs since the positive samples. Nothing since. Not sure how I keep going off in 3 different directions.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Round and round and round and round.

F&W decided that the amount sampled was enough of a representative sample to be satisfied. Talk to Dr. Margo Pybus sometime. She has no love of game farms. She would be the one that decided how many samples were enough.

And we are over 10yrs since the positive samples. Nothing since. Not sure how I keep going off in 3 different directions.

Donkey
I'm done debatng the border issue, it's there and proven, they culled , lowered the deer numbers and it's still appearing to be spreading
I'm debating wether 320 heads collected around a cwd positive game farm was representative?.... How does one person decide 320 was enough to clear a zone and declare it cwd free?..... geez your stubborn..... I believe you have a hidden agenda, no one wants cwd in their area.... If you don't test for it i guess it doesn't exist.... And when I mean test I mean test like they have done along the border to get accurate results..... In 2007 they tested 2900 samples and found 4 positive cases.... very small percentage, now if your too stubborn to agree 320 samples is inaccurate so be it.....

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Donkey
I done debatng the border issue, it's there and proven, they culled , lowered the deer numbers and it's still appearing to be spreading
I'm debating wether 320 heads collected around a cwd positive game farm was representative?.... How does one person decide 320 was enough to clear a zone and declare it cwd free?..... geez your stubborn..... I believe you have a hidden agenda, no one wants cwd in their area.... If you don't test for it i guess it doesn't exist.... And when I mean test I mean test like they have done along the border to get accurate results..... In 2007 they tested 2900 samples and found 4 positive cases.... very small percentage, now if your too stubborn to agree 320 samples is inaccurate so be it.....

Uggg, talk about stubborn. Those 2900 samples where taken in how big of an area? How many deer and elk live in that area?

Now ask the same questions about the areas around the two positive farms. How big of an area? How many animals in that area?

That is how one person figures what is statistically representative.

What hidden agenda do I have? I post the know info from reputable sites. Haven't taken sides. Guess because I don't have some hate for all things government I must have a hidden agenda. What a waste of time.

All I am doing is trying to educate as to the facts that are known. As seen since I jumped in to this train wreck. So many people have no idea about this infection. It doesn't act like anything most people would know. Just trying to clear up misinformation.