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  #151  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:45 PM
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Last week of August. They had to stop to get ice for the meat. Seems like a small cooler for two mature bull elk in my opinion..
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  #152  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Actually there was a picture posted on this very forum of a fancy Ford reportedly leaving the block with large sets of elk antlers visible.

Ya that looks like subsistence hunting ..driving a 80,000$ truck looks like they need the food ..sickinig seeing that and then wonder why the comments and daggers get throwen.
  #153  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:50 PM
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You think anti hunting advocates care who's doing the hunting?

Fact of the matter is treaties are not going away.... Ever. Fact is and will always be, you can have an opinion on the topic but it will never come to light. These threads usually come with opinions of people who don't understand that First Nation people have a right to hunt, they are not subsistence hunters, you keep mixing up First Nations hunters with people whom live out in the middle of nowhere and nowhere near a grocery store.

Who cares if it's about trophy or not? Why wouldn't First Nations people have a right to put the skills handed down to them over thousands of years to the test and honor the people who have handed them down through taking mature animals that are harder to get than a young one. The meat is better is a matter of opinion, First Nations people traditionally boil everything... I don't care if it's a day old or 20 years old meat tastes the exact same when it's cooked in this manner.

Suffield elk? It's a herd that was introduced to an area, it might as well be a farm that has no fences. The population is out of control, and who better than First Nations people to get it in check? That meat goes to family's that are still feeling the effects of over a hundred years of mistreatment. If you want to have First Nations people the same as all Canadians treat them as such, encourage your politicians to make sure they get equal opportunity as all Canadians and are no longer regulated. If you knew what happens behind the scenes of a reserve you would change your thought process. It's not easy trying to make something out of nothing.

The actual numbers of First Nations hunting in this country is greatly outweighed by the number of non.. If your worried about First Nations people killing all the animals in the country consider these 2 points,

1) remember the buffalo?
2) maybe the problem lies in ESRD and thier lack of ability to maintain funding to achieve proper numbers is the route of all evils in numbers going down? Maybe the energy sectors influence in politics may have something to do with numbers being drive down? Why is it that moose populations in areas like 349 are almost none compared to what it used to be? Is it because the spike in gas findings have gotten the province to drive down herd numbers for safety sake and to once again regulate the indian by driving up tag numbers? Once again starving the indian?

All I ask is that you learn the facts before posting an argument, don't be totally ignorant to what's actually happening in this great province of ours. And mostly share the sence of entitlement. First Nations have been sharing this great nation long before any of us were born.

Get over the greed
x2
  #154  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeaker View Post
Ya that looks like subsistence hunting ..driving a 80,000$ truck looks like they need the food ..sickinig seeing that and then wonder why the comments and daggers get throwen.
It is really sad, it sure looks like they really really needed that meat to survive. Maybe sell the truck and downgrade god knows I had to.
  #155  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:51 PM
Kanonfodder Kanonfodder is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Actually there was a picture posted on this very forum of a fancy Ford reportedly leaving the block with large sets of elk antlers visible.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...highlight=ford

Looks to be three Bulls , would you agree? In a truck with at least two maybe more hunters...hunting according to govt rules

Could be a co op around Suffield. Could be Spirit River....
  #156  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kanonfodder View Post
Looks to be three Bulls , would you agree? In a truck with at least two maybe more hunters...hunting according to govt rules
I bet those antlers taste really good with gravy as well, this is more than just sustinence hunting.
  #157  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:54 PM
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You cannot manage what is not measured. Absolutely the first and only realistic first step is some sort Alberta wide tag or regulation system, it can be free but we can say or do nothing until we have real accurate numbers of hunters and how much they actually take. Equality battles (this is what this is) are won with baby steps.
My family settled in Alberta in 1903. If you find me one living subsistence hunter that was here first I will lay down my rifle and give them my rights to everything I hunt.
If u have lived here for 3 years you should be Albertan with all rights, privileges, responsibilities and nothing more or less.
  #158  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bobalong View Post
First off to my knowledge hunting rights were not "given" to the Natives, it was a negotiation and they were traded for land. For those of you who do not agree with this, maybe all treaties should be cancelled and all land that was "given" by the Natives to the crown, should be returned to them. I will agree this is not a very rational or reasonable suggestion, but neither is cherry picking the treaties and suggesting elimination of a few things that now, a hundred years later you don't like.

How can a comment stating that Natives are killing to much big game, be taken seriously when no one seems to know how much they are "taking" or how many people they are feeding?? I have read the comments about allowing 2 deer and one elk or moose per native family.....once again how big of a native family?.

I have also read about non-native members on here getting moose tags, elk tags and deer and possibly even antelope tags for their whole family in the same year. Husband gets one, wife gets one, a couple sons and a daughter get one, and they all shoot game......but that is ok???????

I have also read comments about Natives not hunting for subsistence, because they have expensive trucks, quads etc. Those same members then boast of making 150-200K, owing quads, 70K trucks, and boats, and hunting and shooing as many animals per year as legally possible. Some are single, or maybe have a wife, but no kids........so they are hunting only because they enjoy it. Needing the meat is so far down the least of priorities of why they hunt, it is not even worth mentioning. I don't really have a problem with that, but do not protest and demean Natives, that for many, shooting and eating wild game is necessary, not for all, but for some.

I also wonder about the comments that Natives should not be able to shoot big bulls. First off bulls are typically 40% larger than cows, so if you are hunting for meat, is this not a logical choice? Also wondering why on other posts, that members suggest that you should not shoot does/cows because they are more important to maintaining a population. This seems to only be a valid comment if your a native............or a landowner. Their justification for stating natives should not be allowed to shoot bulls...........because they want to, so they can put the racks on the wall. Greed and hypocrisy on this one.

Although I may not agree with everything in the treaties, and is there some abuse.... yes, but the deal was made, so honour your word. I have also read on here where a Native group applies to have some land returned to them that was in a treaty, and what are some of the first comments from members on here "They made the deal now live with it"......that saying goes both ways.

The whole native hunting bashing issue on this forum is so typical of many of the hunters on here. If even one little thing has the potential for removing a hunting opportunity for them, be it archers, muzzle loaders, natives, any and all are considered greedy and are criticized constantly. Some of you guys REALLY need to look in a mirror, if you truly want to see what greed looks like.
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  #159  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:57 PM
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I have just read through this entire thread.

Because of the bickering between the headbone hunters, the meat hunters, the treaty people, the non treaty people, the outfitters, the farmers and the government's inability to properly manage re-introduced elk it is painfully obvious that, to be fair, we will have to re-introduce wolves and cougars to the Suffield area to control elk numbers. hehe
----------
My outlook on the subsistance hunting issue...
Our wildlife, whether introduced or native, is all Albertan's wildlife. Since the animals are the crowns animals (and we create our gov't) we as a whole society, native and non native combined, have the responsibility to manage our wildlife.

Because the suffield elk populations are just a grand gov't. experiment, our government should cull and harvest the Suffield elk in a manner that is fair to all people. It might be best if designated government hunters culled the Suffield elk and the meat distributed to our provinces food banks and maybe lunch programs for schools. The food banks deal with actual people (FN too) that are in need. School lunch programs feed all of our children.

This approach would take everybodies egos out of the equation.

Subsistance hunting has a place in remote areas, which Suffield is not.
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Last edited by Red Bullets; 01-18-2015 at 11:10 PM.
  #160  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
Give it a rest already, there was not a single 400 class bull in that picture, and maybe 2 over 350.... From what I understand that pic was in the check in station, meaning heads were turned over.

What's the difference in going to where a guy usually hunts and driving for 4 days and a couple thousand kilometres and not seeing one or driving 400 and seeing 1000, what would you do? It's not a problem it's a solution
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  #161  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kanonfodder View Post
Looks to be three Bulls , would you agree? In a truck with at least two maybe more hunters...hunting according to govt rules

Could be a co op around Suffield. Could be Spirit River....
I see 5 sets of horns in the box of that truck and I can see two hunters in the front seats of that truck and google is my friend and tells me there is no co-op gas station in spirit river.
  #162  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:01 PM
SmokinJoe SmokinJoe is offline
 
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[QUOTE=H380;2702574]
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Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post

Smokin Joe,Help us out and tell us what zones we can buy these tags in that will give us a shot at a 400" bull ?
Why don't you wear out some boots like the rest of us did to find that out.
  #163  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Bullets View Post
I have just read through this entire thread.

Because of the bickering between the headbone hunters, the meat hunters, the treaty people, the non treaty people, the outfitters, the farmers and the government's inability to properly manage re-introduced elk it is painfully obvious that, to be fair, we will have to re-introduce wolves and cougars to the Suffield area to control elk numbers. hehe
----------
My outlook on the subsistance hunting issue...
Our wildlife, whether introduced or native, is all Albertan's wildlife. Since the animals are the crowns animals (and we create our gov't) we as a whole society, native and non native combined, have the responsibility to manage our wildlife.

Because the suffield elk populations are just a grand gov't. experiment, our government should cull and harvest the Suffield elk in a manner that is fair to all people. It might be best if designated government hunters culled the Suffield elk and the meat distributed to our provinces food banks and maybe lunch programs for schools. The food banks deal with actual people (FN too) that are in need. School lunch programs feed all of our children.

Subsistance hunting has a place in remote areas, which Suffield is not.
x2 fairness is greatness
  #164  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeaker View Post
Ya that looks like subsistence hunting ..driving a 80,000$ truck looks like they need the food ..sickinig seeing that and then wonder why the comments and daggers get throwen.
Pic taken in states last winter. Montana
  #165  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:06 PM
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QuoteE=Squeaker;2702481]If they needed that much meat supplied to there families then they would be shooting what ever comes in front of them ...I find it very hard to believe that 400hundered mature trophy class bulls were lined up walking single file for them to shoot ..I also find it hard that on that long drive from Saskatchewan to suffield that they didn't pass any other deer moose elk antelope that they could have shot ..they had to come all the way to suffield to shoot elk ...100% proof right there this isn't subsistence hunting ..How much more clear do you need it ?
First of all, I doubt very much the trip was to shoot an elk, also without knowing where they come from, I do not know if a "long drive" is even a correct assumption. About the only thing that is 100%, IMO is that they did not have to get permission on private land, which there is lots of on the way, access was easy, and they were able to shoot what ever elk they got without driving 100's of km's to find them.

If you need subsistence hunting to feed your families the first animal you see your gonna shoot ..Not driving hundreds of KM to go shoot a trophy class bull elk.. Does this not make sense ? Hundreds of KM?, where did they come from. [/QUOTE]
  #166  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
Pic taken in states last winter. Montana
With a Canadian co-op gas pump behind it lol wow how does a person even comment on that !!
  #167  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:09 PM
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By stopping reproduction that's how theres more cows then bulls simple math and is bulls are to be taken then they to should be open to the public and guys with the highest priority have the first kick at the cat and the guys with low priority move up the ladder its called being fair ..If there is people out there that actually need subsistence animals then by all means they are welcome to it .. those are living by ethics ..It was our tax money and donations that put those elk in the suffield area after the wild horses were removed so it should be a draw given out and fair to all .
First Nations have a right to hunt. Non have a privilege to hunt, the faster you can absorb that the faster you can get on with life and be happy you have any chance at all to hunt in Canada.
  #168  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:10 PM
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With a Canadian co-op gas pump behind it lol wow how does a person even comment on that !!
Every one else jumps to conclusions, is that another thing I'm not aloud to do being First Nations?
  #169  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:15 PM
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Every one else jumps to conclusions, is that another thing I'm not aloud to do being First Nations?
You can be who ever you want I have no issues with first nations people so lets get that straight !! I have a problem with greedy PEOPLE being who ever they are ,there a difference between right and wrong fair and not fair and whats happening isn't correct . I am blaming the "people" that are doing this not putting a label on anyone person ..and if you are calling whats going on proper then yes I have a big issue to disagree with you!!
  #170  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:17 PM
Kanonfodder Kanonfodder is offline
 
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I see 5 sets of horns in the box of that truck and I can see two hunters in the front seats of that truck and google is my friend and tells me there is no co-op gas station in spirit river.
My bad it's five min down the road as I hunt NW of there ( Rycroft )
  #171  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:21 PM
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You can be who ever you want I have no issues with first nations people so lets get that straight !! I have a problem with greedy PEOPLE being who ever they are ,there a difference between right and wrong fair and not fair and whats happening isn't correct . I am blaming the "people" that are doing this not putting a label on anyone person ..and if you are calling whats going on proper then yes I have a big issue to disagree with you!!
After all this you don't have a problem with FN? Go back and read it.

You have more than proved your greed in previous posts as per the reasons for your argument.
  #172  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:28 PM
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First Nations have a right to hunt. Non have a privilege to hunt, the faster you can absorb that the faster you can get on with life and be happy you have any chance at all to hunt in Canada.
x2
  #173  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:28 PM
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After all this you don't have a problem with FN? Go back and read it.

You have more than proved your greed in previous posts as per the reasons for your argument.
So in your own opinion, are all races treated fairly in todays society?
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  #174  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:31 PM
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After all this you don't have a problem with FN? Go back and read it.

You have more than proved your greed in previous posts as per the reasons for your argument.
No I don't have issues with the ones who have ethics behind what they are doing I have issue with them when they abuse what rights they are given and take advantage of it.

I wont retract one statement of what I wrote ,you wanna read into it the wrong way then that's your business taking things out of txt as a personal attack witch I did not make . you wanna look at it in your eyes they way you want to take it that's fine.
  #175  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:32 PM
bobalong bobalong is offline
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fairness is greatness
Not sure anyone would argue with that, the problem lies in who determines what is fair, and what fair is? Not sure you could consensus on that between four guys sitting around the coffee table, let alone a whole province.
  #176  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:32 PM
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No I don't have issues with the ones who have ethics behind what they are doing I have issue with them when they abuse what rights they are given and take advantage of it.

I wont retract one statement of what I wrote ,you wanna read into it the wrong way then that's your business taking things out of txt as a personal attack witch I did not make . you wanna look at it in your eyes they way you want to take it that's fine.
I'm trying to help you.... Don't fight it
  #177  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:35 PM
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I'm trying to help you.... Don't fight it
Your help isn't needed but thanks lol
  #178  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:36 PM
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Not sure anyone would argue with that, the problem lies in who determines what is fair, and what fair is? Not sure you could consensus on that between four guys sitting around the coffee table, let alone a whole province.
Id like to give it a shot as I am sure we could get some grip on it .
  #179  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:37 PM
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Your help isn't needed but thanks lol
The first step is admitting you have a problem
  #180  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:38 PM
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No I don't have issues with the ones who have ethics behind what they are doing I have issue with them when they abuse what rights they are given and take advantage of it.

I wont retract one statement of what I wrote ,you wanna read into it the wrong way then that's your business taking things out of txt as a personal attack witch I did not make . you wanna look at it in your eyes they way you want to take it that's fine.
It looked pretty ethical to me there was 138 bulls taken
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