#3 Using a Dog to Track Wounded Game

[waterninja]

Can someone please explain to me why you are not allowed to use a dog to track a wounded animal? It's one thing tracking a wounded animal in the snow, but what about in late summer and fall? It can be very difficult to track an animal that was shot with an arrow, esp. if it goes a long way and all you have is a drop of blood now and then to trail it through the brush or grass.
It would be nice to know the reasoning behind this reg. before the ussual suspects derail this thread. Thanks.

[Diesel_wiesel]

its considered hunting big game
its in the regs
as to why its a law
call the law makers and ask them exactly why they made that law

[Dick284]

It's that way, because it would be abused, and we'd have guys running game with dogs.
Enforcement is nearly impossible, and a conviction would be very difficult.

Heck we can't use pack dogs while hunting, and now your confused about tracking dogs........ This one is so low on any priority scale it needs ground penetrating radar to get a ping.

Try worrying about:
Funding for ungulate counts.
Funding for enforcement.
Resident first opportunities.
Heightened residency requirements.
Increased access, and habitat development.


You are so on the outside looking in.

[rednuck]

I think it would be impossible to enforce "just tracking" you have to allow full big game hunting with dogs or nothing.

[elkhunter11]

It seems rather obvious to me, that they don't want people turning dogs loose on an animal's tracks, and then have the dogs chase that animal, or another animal. Just watching some of the dogs that people bring to the pheasant release sites, is proof that some owners can't control their dogs. I personally would like to be able to use a leashed dog to track a wounded big game animal, but as it stands, I can't even legally have a dog in the truck with me while I am hunting big game except cougar.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Dick284

It's that way, because it would be abused, and we'd have guys running game with dogs.
Enforcement is nearly impossible, and a conviction would be very difficult.

Heck we can't use pack dogs while hunting, and now your confused about tracking dogs........ This one is so low on any priority scale it needs ground penetrating radar to get a ping.

Try worrying about:
Funding for ungulate counts.
Funding for enforcement.
Resident first opportunities.
Heightened residency requirements.
Increased access, and habitat development.


You are so on the outside looking in.

Gee Dick, sorry my questions or suggestions are not in line with what you think matters. Please excuse me for not following your lead.
By the way, I think your suggestion about people suddenly raising packs of dogs to "run down" deer is ludicrious.
Still don't see why you can't use a dog to track a wounded animal.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It seems rather obvious to me, that they don't want people turning dogs loose on an animal's tracks, and then have the dogs chase that animal, or another animal. Just watching some of the dogs that people bring to the pheasant release sites, is proof that some owners can't control their dogs. I personally would like to be able to use a leashed dog to track a wounded big game animal, but as it stands, I can't even legally have a dog in the truck with me while I am hunting big game except cougar.

Your last statement is incorrect Elk... No worries having Fido in the truck while out actively hunting big game. My GSP travels with me all the time, he is always in the truck.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It seems rather obvious to me, that they don't want people turning dogs loose on an animal's tracks, and then have the dogs chase that animal, or another animal. Just watching some of the dogs that people bring to the pheasant release sites, is proof that some owners can't control their dogs. I personally would like to be able to use a leashed dog to track a wounded big game animal, but as it stands, I can't even legally have a dog in the truck with me while I am hunting big game except cougar.

I can see not wanting to have dogs "chase" a wounded animal, but tracking one with dog on leash makes sense.

[Dick284]

[QUOTE=waterninja;3093004
Still don't see why you can't use a dog to track a wounded animal.[/QUOTE]

Gee Ninja.
What part of it will be abused, and is too hard to enforce, are you not following.

The argument about choosing your shots, and honing your bushcraft can also be made to counter the argument for tracking dogs.

At any rate, dream on, dreamer.

[deerguy]

I am all for using dogs to track wound game.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Your last statement is incorrect Elk... No worries having Fido in the truck while out actively hunting big game. My GSP travels with me all the time, he is always in the truck.

Tell that to the officer that warned one of the guys that I shoot skeet with, when he had his dog in the truck while he was out hunting big game. The officer made it clear to him that since he was looking for big game as he was driving, he was in fact hunting big game. He was given a warning, and told to leave the dog at home when he went big game hunting again.
I actually wanted to take my dog along when I draw my pronghorn tag, so that I could hunt Hungarian partridge that I often encounter while hunting pronghorn, but I don't need the aggravation of being charged for having the dog with me while hunting big game.
Just to clarify this, I have sent an e-mail to AEP for clarification. If I can get someone from AEP to state that it is legal, and put their name to it, my dog will be accompanying me next fall.

[drake]

be it resolved that WN be disallowed from starting any more "recommendation" threads.....lol

[philintheblank]

Not every mutt farm dog can be used to run deer effectively. In Ontario there are a lot of areas in the south that have seasons where dogs can be used. Still lots of deer around. Some areas were giving 5 additional doe tags to help manage numbers. It wasnt until they had a crazy bad winter with lots of snow that the deer population returned to normal ( go figure) i shot my first 3 deer there in one week.

I would have no problem with people using dogs around here to help pack supplies and find lost game. I doubt that there would be a massive influx of people getting hounds or putting in the time to properly train a dog to track a wounded or lost animal

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by drake

be it resolved that WN be disallowed from starting any more "recommendation" threads.....lol

Sorry Drake, but I still have a few more reg. changes that I will be implementing when I am King of the world. This is only #3.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Gee Ninja.
What part of it will be abused, and is too hard to enforce, are you not following.

The argument about choosing your shots, and honing your bushcraft can also be made to counter the argument for tracking dogs.

At any rate, dream on, dreamer.

Hate on Hater
Once again I am puzzled by how often people have to get personal when they don't agree with something. Dick, you sound like a bitter and frustrated individual. Hope your life improves soon.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by philintheblank

Not every mutt farm dog can be used to run deer effectively. In Ontario there are a lot of areas in the south that have seasons where dogs can be used. Still lots of deer around. Some areas were giving 5 additional doe tags to help manage numbers. It wasnt until they had a crazy bad winter with lots of snow that the deer population returned to normal ( go figure) i shot my first 3 deer there in one week.

I would have no problem with people using dogs around here to help pack supplies and find lost game. I doubt that there would be a massive influx of people getting hounds or putting in the time to properly train a dog to track a wounded or lost animal

Some people already own versatile hunting dogs, breeds that are commonly used in Europe to hunt big game, as well as to hunt birds. If it was legal, I would be training my Drahthaar to track big game.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Hate on Hater
Once again I am puzzled by how often people have to get personal when they don't agree with something. Dick, you sound like a bitter and frustrated individual. Hope your life improves soon.

Where did I say I didn't like your idea?

It has some merit BTW.

I simply explained why it is the current law, and why it wouldn't work, and also gave the counter arguments to the idea.

And you've now resorted to playground taunts in reply.

Happy new year!

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Tell that to the officer that warned one of the guys that I shoot skeet with, when he had his dog in the truck while he was out hunting big game. The officer made it clear to him that since he was looking for big game as he was driving, he was in fact hunting big game. He was given a warning, and told to leave the dog at home when he went big game hunting again.
I actually wanted to take my dog along when I draw my pronghorn tag, so that I could hunt Hungarian partridge that I often encounter while hunting pronghorn, but I don't need the aggravation of being charged for having the dog with me while hunting big game.
Just to clarify this, I have sent an e-mail to AEP for clarification. If I can get someone from AEP to state that it is legal, and put their name to it, my dog will be accompanying me next fall.

There is no way anyone can or would be charged with having your hound locked in a vehicle while you were actually pursuing big game during an open season. Asinine to think any officer would think any different.

We do it all the time, I put my bow in the truck and let him out with the scatter gun and we chase birds during the mid day.. I would just thank the officer for his stand up comic relief and drive away if they tried something as silly as that

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

There is no way anyone can or would be charged with having your hound locked in a vehicle while you were actually pursuing big game during an open season. Asinine to think any officer would think any different.

We do it all the time, I put my bow in the truck and let him out with the scatter gun and we chase birds during the mid day.. I would just thank the officer for his stand up comic relief and drive away if they tried something as silly as that

The e-mail to AEP has been sent, we will see how they interpret the regulation. As to just driving away if charged, I don't need the hassle that would result if I was to do that. Now if AEP tells me that I am good to go, my dog will be in the truck.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Tell that to the officer that warned one of the guys that I shoot skeet with, when he had his dog in the truck while he was out hunting big game. The officer made it clear to him that since he was looking for big game as he was driving, he was in fact hunting big game. He was given a warning, and told to leave the dog at home when he went big game hunting again.
I actually wanted to take my dog along when I draw my pronghorn tag, so that I could hunt Hungarian partridge that I often encounter while hunting pronghorn, but I don't need the aggravation of being charged for having the dog with me while hunting big game.
Just to clarify this, I have sent an e-mail to AEP for clarification. If I can get someone from AEP to state that it is legal, and put their name to it, my dog will be accompanying me next fall.

I'd be prepared to go to court on that one!
We regularly hunt deer in the morning and upland in the afternoon, and I will be dammed if I am going to drive 2 1/2 hours back to town and drop off the dogs if I decide to hunt deer in the evening.
We also bring them with us down south and will not leave the dogs in the hotel if we decide to hunt deer that day, they are and will continue to be in the truck with us.
I have talked to F&W on several occasions in the past when the dogs was with me and it has never been questioned.
Cat

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The e-mail to AEP has been sent, we will see how they interpret the regulation. As to just driving away if charged, I don't need the hassle that would result if I was to do that. Now if AEP tells me that I am good to go, my dog will be in the truck.

Hope to see you and your hound around when you draw your speeder...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Hope to see you and your hound around when you draw your speeder...

I am P13 so I will likely apply to draw in 2016. Hopefully the dog will be with me.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Where did I say I didn't like your idea?

It has some merit BTW.

I simply explained why it is the current law, and why it wouldn't work, and also gave the counter arguments to the idea.

And you've now resorted to playground taunts in reply.

Happy new year!

Actually, I might have been a little harsh dick, but here I am tossing out some reg. ideas that seem to make more sense then the ones we have now, but instead of simply agreeing, disagreeing or suggesting modifications or improvements, you have the same old tired members who always derail a thread with thier condenscending attitudes. Should know better then to get sucked down to thier level but I'm a slow typer and get caught up "defending" myself rather then just ignoring them.
You don't like the idea I have put foreward? Fine, but don't use the old argument that it is too hard to enforce because there is already a thick book full of regs. that are hard to enforce. Does'nt mean that some changes that make more sense cannot happen. Not that I'm saying my suggestions are perfect either.

[Okotokian]

Just have a gamebird license in your back pocket and unleash Fido.

"What are you implying officer? Of course I'm hunting grouse with my .30-06."

Seriously, I'm not sure how fishcops could differentiate tracking a wounded animal from hunting. Of course anyone illegally using the dog to hunt is going to say he wounded an animal and is tracking, not hunting.

As for using a dog to hunt, each jurisdiction picks and choses what to allow and what not to allow. Is the use of a dog more or less 'sporting" or "ethical" than the use of game cams, or bait, or scents? Depends on where you are and the local tradition. Some people go nuts about hunting after dark, yet it's legal many places. I do think widespread use of dogs might attract more Anti attention, much like what happened to fox hunting.

[Redfrog]

Well I've lived and hunted in jurisdictions where a dog could be used for chasing game or others where it was legal for a dog to accompany a big game hunter but not allowed to 'chase' game.

I never heard of a situation where it was a problem either from an implementation OV or from an enforcement POV.

I can see no logical reason to not allow a dog to accompany a hunter.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'd be prepared to go to court on that one!
We regularly hunt deer in the morning and upland in the afternoon, and I will be dammed if I am going to drive 2 1/2 hours back to town and drop off the dogs if I decide to hunt deer in the evening.
We also bring them with us down south and will not leave the dogs in the hotel if we decide to hunt deer that day, they are and will continue to be in the truck with us.
I have talked to F&W on several occasions in the past when the dogs was with me and it has never been questioned.
Cat

It makes sense to me, likely an officer on a power trip , but I did send an e-mail to AEP, to get something on paper, just in case I encounter that officer, or another one like him. I received an automated reply that they will be back in the office on the 4th. I will post the reply when I receive one.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by philintheblank

... I doubt that there would be a massive influx of people getting hounds or putting in the time to properly train a dog to track a wounded or lost animal

Words of Truth.

I have a large male Wolf Hybrid. He has been trained Explicitly to blood / cold trail wounded game. We are talking HUNDREDS of Hours here!
I'd be surprised should many be inclined to expend that kind of effort to get it right.

Mine did. The cost as noted was one hell of a LOT of time, patience and effort. He has now recovered 8 Bucks here on the Island (none wounded by me). Does an exemplary job. In the jungle around here, it is quite likely all 8 would have never been recovered.

With the right rules in place, I cannot see a down side...

Cheers,
Nog

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by drake

be it resolved that WN be disallowed from starting any more "recommendation" threads.....lol

I'll second that.

LC

[blgoodbrand1]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I'll second that.



LC

But what else is there to do until spring bear?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I'll second that.

LC

OR posters could simply disagree with the proposition and leave it at that. Hissy fits and self-righteousness not required.