Who must pay for their mistake?

tractor1971 · #1 10-09-2012, 08:57 PM

I am looking from advise from contractors who dealt with this type of issue before.

We did some renovations, and our back door was a special order. It is taller and wider than other doors, and has long windows on the sides. We waited for a few weeks/months for the manufacturing. The door was delivered and the old one were removed. Installation was a nightmare, partly due to stucco that had to be cut. With the first rain of the season, the door started leaking severely, and was reported to the manufacturer. The subsequent rain damaged the floor, and lifted up the newly laid floor and trim. We were told by the rep that the company was at fault, and that they forgot to seal the windows and door. No problem, they will pay for the replacement door, floor and installation. Now they turned around, and is refusing to pay the contractor who replaced the second door. They are only covering the door itself. Can they get away with this? Is there any loopholes? I am very willing to lawyer up, but do not want to waste money if there is no way they will cover the damages. Any constructive comments are appreciated.

leeaspell · #2 10-09-2012, 09:00 PM

Did you get it on paper they would pay for all repairs? And is the contractor coming to you looking for money? If its between the contractor and the door company I don't see why you should get a lawyer

tractor1971 · #3 10-09-2012, 09:10 PM

This is where it gets tricky-I know the contractor personally, a very honorable guy, and I call him a friend. I will not let him holding the bag, as a matter of fact, I did not even want to tell me about the situation. I will therefore pay him, and go after the door company myself.

ganderblaster · #4 10-10-2012, 01:46 PM

Who supplied the door? You or the contractor? Whoever supplied should be responsible the way I see it.

tractor1971 · #5 10-10-2012, 04:54 PM

UFA supplied to the contractor.

HunterDave · #6 10-10-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tractor1971

This is where it gets tricky-I know the contractor personally, a very honorable guy, and I call him a friend. I will not let him holding the bag, as a matter of fact, I did not even want to tell me about the situation. I will therefore pay him, and go after the door company myself.

Did you mean, "He did not want to tell me about the situation." or "I did not want to tell him about the situation."?

To me, it sounds like the company should be paying the contractor and because they don't want to pay you want to bail him out. If that's the case, to put it bluntly,

that's his business. If you didn't know the fella personally he would have done the job and you would have never known the difference.

Sometimes it can be tough doing business with friends especially when you are aware that someone puts the screws to them in a situation like this. From what I understand, I don't see it as your responsibility to bail him out though. One of you is going to have to go after the company and possibly end up holding the bag. Unless the fella is starving I don't know why you are uncomfortable with having him do it?

If I was your friend and contractor I wouldn't accept your money if it had nothing to do with you.

SHORTMAG · #7 10-10-2012, 05:50 PM

I'm a little confused...Is it the glass in the door and sides that's leaking from the manufacture...orrr the contractor who didn't seal up the door itself after installation ?

tractor1971 · #8 10-10-2012, 08:04 PM

The glass in the door was not sealed, installation was done well.

mischief · #9 10-10-2012, 08:13 PM

If the door was faulty the manufacturer should be completely responsible for the failure of their product and any damages it caused.

riden · #10 10-10-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mischief

If the door was faulty the manufacturer should be completely responsible for the failure of their product and any damages it caused.

For sure, they have a great burden of care in this case. In small claims it is a no brainer, but you may have to take it to small claims to win. That part sucks.

ctd · #11 10-10-2012, 09:24 PM

Most manufacturers limit their liability to only their product. Most will not cover labour costs. Hopefully you have the product warrenty card and have read it.

riden · #12 10-10-2012, 09:45 PM

Your right about manufacturer warranties, but I am quite certain they are still legally responsible for damages, regardless of what their warranty says.

HunterDave · #13 10-10-2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tractor1971

The glass in the door was not sealed, installation was done well.

If the installation was done correctly and the product was the problem then that should be between you and the company to get it repaired or replaced. I can't understand why the company doesn't want to pay the contractor if it was installed correctly.

You need a new door and you should be going after the company for that. The contractor did the job and he needs to go after them to get paid. It seems pretty straight forward to me unless I'm missing something.

Is the company blaming the contractor for causing damage to the seal in the glass causing it to leak?

coreya3212 · #14 10-10-2012, 10:00 PM

Call your insurance company, you are covered for water damage usually I would think?? They should take after the window manufacturer I would guess, it will be a battle of insurance companies but your damage should get fixed.

missingtwo · #15 10-10-2012, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Call your insurance company, you are covered for water damage usually I would think?? They should take after the window manufacturer I would guess, it will be a battle of insurance companies but your damage should get fixed.

well done!!!!

HunterDave · #16 10-10-2012, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Call your insurance company, you are covered for water damage usually I would think?? They should take after the window manufacturer I would guess, it will be a battle of insurance companies but your damage should get fixed.

Wouldn't you want to use the warranty before going out and paying your insurance deductible? My deductible is $1K on the house.

coreya3212 · #17 10-10-2012, 10:43 PM

I guess if it is up to me, my window wouldn't be leaking in the first place. I guess I am saying that when they tell you here is a new window, shove it up your azz, install it we don't care it's on your nickel, I would feel pretty good about paying a thousand deductible, rather than a new floor, door install, trim work drywall and whatever else might have water damage....this doesn't do much for the contractor who wasn't paid mind you but the OP has some other issues that don't seem resolved either. Or he can always keep asking them to add labour to there warranty please.

ctd · #18 10-10-2012, 10:55 PM

The installer should be the one going after the supplier for warrenty work. The home owner should be talking to their insurance about the situation.
This issue should be between you and the installer, then the installer goes to the manufacturer.
If you paid for the window direct, and had a third party install the window then you are responsible for the installation costs.
No matter how close of friends business is business, hopefully your friend is an accredited Carpenter and has insurance. Then they can go after the manufacturer.

To many questions unanswered, make sure that you get everything in writing.

HunterDave · #19 10-10-2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctd

The installer should be the one going after the supplier for warrenty work. The home owner should be talking to their insurance about the situation.
This issue should be between you and the installer, then the installer goes to the manufacturer.

I warranty my work not the product that I install. If I shingle a roof correctly with 30 year shingles and they curl after 10 years it's not my fault is it? If the contractor installed a sliding door and the seal leaks between the glass because of a manufacturing defect why would it be the contractor's fault? He didn't make it, he just installed it.

pikergolf · #20 10-11-2012, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I warranty my work not the product that I install. If I shingle a roof correctly with 30 year shingles and they curl after 10 years it's not my fault is it? If the contractor installed a sliding door and the seal leaks between the glass because of a manufacturing defect why would it be the contractor's fault? He didn't make it, he just installed it.

I don't think it's the contractors fault, but if you shingle a roof and there is a shingle failure I would expect the guy whom I payed to do it, to make it right. In my mind the contractor goes after the manufacturer. Contractor should get payed twice, once for each install, customer first time, supplier second time. Won't happen like that though, will it? Most times the contractor picks the supplier, buyer beware.

HunterDave · #21 10-11-2012, 12:50 AM

I had to have a cigarette and think about this one.

Forgetting about the shingle example.

If someone hired me for the job here's what I'd do. If he bought the door then it'd be his problem because I only warranted the work to install it. However, if I was hired to purchase the door and install it then I'd accept the responsibility and deal with the company myself. I don't know about the law, just what I would personally do.

DarkAisling · #22 10-11-2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctd

The installer should be the one going after the supplier for warrenty work. The home owner should be talking to their insurance about the situation.

If the installer didn't supply the door, the installer is not responsible for handling the manufacture's warranty. That is the job of whoever sold/ordered/provided the product.

DarkAisling · #23 10-11-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I had to have a cigarette and think about this one.

Forgetting about the shingle example.

If someone hired me for the job here's what I'd do. If he bought the door then it'd be his problem because I only warranted the work to install it. However, if I was hired to purchase the door and install it then I'd accept the responsibility and deal with the company myself. I don't know about the law, just what I would personally do.

If you were hired to purchase the door, to the best of my knowledge, the onus is on you to resolve any issues with the door.

That's why we won't sell flooring to our installation customers. We'll let them know where to go to get it, and we'll even deliver it for them. We will not, however, purchase the flooring and then sell it to them. We are responsibly only for installation issues. Any issues with the product itself need to be resolved by the customer.

ctd · #24 10-11-2012, 08:15 AM

Warranty for your work performed is just that. You'll perform the work you back the product you sold and installed.
If I pay you to install 30 year shingles and they fail after 5 years I would call you to make it right and fix the problem. That is why I pay a professional to do the job. That way the product is under full warranty.

If I purchase the shingles and or install them myself then I must deal with the warranty issues.

Jamie Black R/T · #25 10-11-2012, 08:44 AM

not very common for full glass sidelites to leak.

are you 100% sure thats where its leaking?

Inswing or outswing?

Are the sides full glass beaded directly in the wood or are they the smaller decorative type (7x64) installed into a panel first, then into the wood?

tractor1971 · #26 10-11-2012, 05:44 PM

The rep of the door company showed me the missing bead of silicone. It is a one piece glass on both sides of the door, and the glass is trimmed of with an aluminum piece. Both side windows were leaking as a result, creating puddles on the floor. It was no small leak, water ran across the floor.

Kim473 · #27 10-12-2012, 05:51 AM

Who hired the contractor? You or the window company. If you hired him then you are responsible to pay him and the window company is only responsible for the window and other material damage and labour for the other repairs and not the window instalation.
Their window failed and not the instalation.
If the window company supplied the window and hired the contractor then they would be on the hook for all.

leo · #28 10-12-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tractor1971

UFA supplied to the contractor.

I am going to assume you purchased the window from UFA and they provided you the name of a contractor to install the window for a fixed fee or hourly? The contractor should be paid for both installations. If you had hired a contractor to "supply and install", the onus is on the contractors warranty to get paid from the manufacturer for the faulty product.