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[Rocks]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

go check out the main thread in the hunting discussion. i think a lot of guys are getting tired of the same old arguments and have chosen to quit talking about it. the facts show a virtuallly identical success rate for hunters using them, and the facts show effective ranges to be nearly identical. everything else is just emotion and opinion. no matter what happens with this issue, i will continue to use the vertical bow and i am willing to share.

To me it's not just about effective range and success rate. The demographic of crossbow hunters different than bow hunters. The only people I know personally who would buy a crossbow if they are allowed in bow season are rifle only hunters. These same people wouldn't think of getting one now, even though they're allowed throughout the general season.

Now I admire those who bowhunt with compound and trad gear, but I can't say the same for some I know who will hunt bow season if crossbows are allowed, they are only opportunists looking for an easy way to hunt bow season without having the dedication it takes for those who hunt it now with vertical bows.

[ishootbambi]

actually its not more clear. are you saying that mule deer numbers in the south are poor because some group of hunters wanted it that way? mule deer numbers do suck for sure along the border zones largely because of the cwd issue, not because anyone wanted to kill them. and that from what i hear is going to get much worse in the near future. the mule deer hunting as far as big bucks go near medicine hat has been poor for quite a while. before the draws began in...88 ithink it was, nule deer huntng around hre was terrible. it was a treat to see a buck with 3 points, but on opening day, his life expectancy was pretty well shorter than you can hold your breath. then the draws came along and hunter opportunity was decreased and antler size increased....a lot. alberta never did seem to catch up to saskatchewan in producing truly outstanding bucks, but to see big mature bucks was fairly common. then by about 96ish, tag numbers took a drastic jump up and antler quality took a big jump down. in a lot of the zones here for a few years now being drawn with a P0 is regular. the local biologist here is a meat hunter and thinks trophy hunting is just wrong. our mule deer locally will not improve as long as that guy is setting tag numbers. i can assure you he has been thoroughly grilled and raked over the coals for his decisions, but he isnt changing his stance. its why i havent hunted mule deer locally for 10 years, and wont until something changes. im not sure who you think asked for the current situation.
as for the paid hunting situation, i have never heard any hunter asking for it, and in fact i have only heard pleas from hunters to eliminate that nonsense before it spreads. same with a draw cap. i havent heard a single hunter asking for that. changes to mathematically impossible draws yes, but not a Pcap.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by JustinC

ok so you say the success rates are the same. So lets put some numbers to this. If 1000 people use compound and 1000 use xbow. As for right know srd basis 15% harvest to archery so if we double the people that doubles the harvest. How the hell is that good? Our muledeer and moose numbers are down province wide so let double the sucsess rate which inturn means more dead animals. So what you all think is more opertunity in incorrect as it all goes to draw and is taken away.Time to get a archery tag would double so 410 sheep would be once every 14-18 years, 8-10 for antelope and 2-4years for an archery muledeer.Moose would all go to the draws insted of having the tiny window to harvest one with your sticks so I think we all should look at more than just what we are using but is it worth losing what we know for a hibrid gun to be a part of a archery season.I dont think so.

Justin. By the "ANTI" Cross bow crowd own words, they say there will be no more hunters in the woods.
Everyone is allowed 1 Buck or bull of each species. Who gives a rat if they shoot it in Sept or November. You will still have a dead deer on the ground.
And besides, if you get this massive rush of new bow hunters, the voice of Alberta Bow hunters will be that much stronger. Which will lead to more dedicated seasons, more tags and more areas to hunt..

God, this is all so simple to me. But people get caught up in all the BS.
The Cross bow is a BOW.. End of story.
X-bows should be allowed in the Bow Season. There should be a month long dedicated Muzzle loading season.
That way the Bow Guys get a month
The Muzzle guys get a month
And the Rifle guys get a month.
And if a guy wishes to hunt with all 3 weapons.. HE CAN!!!

No one weapon is better or worse than the rest. Its all about the hunting!!

Simple isn't it?? (Please note I am talking about Southern Alberta)

And if I hear about the dedication Bow hunting takes one more time I am going to PUKE. Give me a Compound bow for one hour and I can punch the yellow at 50 yards with 3 arrows. When I get good I can slam 6 arrows into a bottom of a coke can at 50 yards.
Its not like you guys are doing rocket science here. Learn the technique and do it.
It's the hunting that is the hard part, and its hard no matter what weapon you chose.


Jamie

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by JustinC

i think im getting tired of this one justin.


I am not picking on you. I think you know your stuff and like to listen to you and I read a bunch of others and I dont agree.So I say somthing.If what everybody says is true my numbers will be close after the first xbow archery hunt watch and see.I will be crossing a border to the east if that happens.

i dont think you or potty or anyone else is picking on me or stinky or anyone else. its a bunch of concerned passionate hunters discussing things that are important to us. im not getting tired of any one of you in particular, just tired of the topic.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

actually its not more clear. are you saying that mule deer numbers in the south are poor because some group of hunters wanted it that way? mule deer numbers do suck for sure along the border zones largely because of the cwd issue, not because anyone wanted to kill them. and that from what i hear is going to get much worse in the near future. the mule deer hunting as far as big bucks go near medicine hat has been poor for quite a while. before the draws began in...88 ithink it was, nule deer huntng around hre was terrible. it was a treat to see a buck with 3 points, but on opening day, his life expectancy was pretty well shorter than you can hold your breath. then the draws came along and hunter opportunity was decreased and antler size increased....a lot. alberta never did seem to catch up to saskatchewan in producing truly outstanding bucks, but to see big mature bucks was fairly common. then by about 96ish, tag numbers took a drastic jump up and antler quality took a big jump down. in a lot of the zones here for a few years now being drawn with a P0 is regular. the local biologist here is a meat hunter and thinks trophy hunting is just wrong. our mule deer locally will not improve as long as that guy is setting tag numbers. i can assure you he has been thoroughly grilled and raked over the coals for his decisions, but he isnt changing his stance. its why i havent hunted mule deer locally for 10 years, and wont until something changes. im not sure who you think asked for the current situation.
as for the paid hunting situation, i have never heard any hunter asking for it, and in fact i have only heard pleas from hunters to eliminate that nonsense before it spreads. same with a draw cap. i havent heard a single hunter asking for that. changes to mathematically impossible draws yes, but not a Pcap.

Not hunters it is landowners to lower numbers and people that work for srd or is in bed with them.More tags more$$$$ It has nothing to do about use it is turnig in to abusiness for them and not the animals.Also before you finished righting I did edit that cwd hunts and number were to blame as well.But that was a waste. The americans delt with the samething 15 yaers ago and said it did nothing to slaughter animals but $10 x all the hunters =lots of$$$$$$$.just like extra bow permits, tags.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Justin. By the "ANTI" Cross bow crowd own words, they say there will be no more hunters in the woods.
Everyone is allowed 1 Buck or bull of each species. Who gives a rat if they shoot it in Sept or November. You will still have a dead deer on the ground.
And besides, if you get this massive rush of new bow hunters, the voice of Alberta Bow hunters will be that much stronger. Which will lead to more dedicated seasons, more tags and more areas to hunt..

God, this is all so simple to me. But people get caught up in all the BS.
The Cross bow is a BOW.. End of story.
X-bows should be allowed in the Bow Season. There should be a month long dedicated Muzzle loading season.
That way the Bow Guys get a month
The Muzzle guys get a month
And the Rifle guys get a month.
And if a guy wishes to hunt with all 3 weapons.. HE CAN!!!

No one weapon is better or worse than the rest. Its all about the hunting!!

Simple isn't it?? (Please note I am talking about Southern Alberta)

And if I hear about the dedication Bow hunting takes one more time I am going to PUKE. Give me a Compound bow for one hour and I can punch the yellow at 50 yards with 3 arrows. When I get good I can slam 6 arrows into a bottom of a coke can at 50 yards.
Its not like you guys are doing rocket science here. Learn the technique and do it.
It's the hunting that is the hard part, and its hard no matter what weapon you chose.


Jamie

Read my post again you are putting lots of thing in my mouth that I did not say.Your numbers dont work that we can all shoot 1 of everything every year.Our herds could not handle that do the math.what would happen??? It was stated that if sucsess rates went up it would all go to a draw.That is where I have a problem. Gouse what ever you want leave it alone before we all loose.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by JustinC

Not hunters it is landowners to lower numbers and people that work for srd or is in bed with them.More tags more$$$$ It has nothing to do about use it is turnig in to abusiness for them and not the animals.Also before you finished righting I did edit that cwd hunts and number were to blame as well.But that was a waste. The americans delt with the samething 15 yaers ago and said it did nothing to slaughter animals but $10 x all the hunters =lots of$$$$$$$.just like extra bow permits, tags.

for every landowner in my neck of the woods...well ok grass...there is one landowner wanting less deer, but 3 more disgusted with what has gone on. if however there was a legit need to reduce deer numbers, any bio who has been to school knows that to reduce deer numbers you kill does, not bucks. that was certainly not the case for the 8-10 year period before the cwd fiasco. i miss the early to mid 90's when a quick drive around the country would allow you to see several mature mule bucks in the 170 to 185 range.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for every landowner in my neck of the woods...well ok grass...there is one landowner wanting less deer, but 3 more disgusted with what has gone on. if however there was a legit need to reduce deer numbers, any bio who has been to school knows that to reduce deer numbers you kill does, not bucks. that was certainly not the case for the 8-10 year period before the cwd fiasco. i miss the early to mid 90's when a quick drive around the country would allow you to see several mature mule bucks in the 170 to 185 range.

Why do you think the decline? It can't just be CWD!!!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for every landowner in my neck of the woods...well ok grass...there is one landowner wanting less deer, but 3 more disgusted with what has gone on. if however there was a legit need to reduce deer numbers, any bio who has been to school knows that to reduce deer numbers you kill does, not bucks. that was certainly not the case for the 8-10 year period before the cwd fiasco. i miss the early to mid 90's when a quick drive around the country would allow you to see several mature mule bucks in the 170 to 185 range.

I saw 40 buck in one feild that all would range from 170-195.I wish those days were back.Also same year I saw a buck that I think was bigger than the burris buck.As I do remember priorto draws that was even worse that now.

[ishootbambi]

number 1 for sure is cwd. the numbers were fine until a few years ago when the cwd issue came up. mature buck numbers have been down for much longer for reasons already mentioned, but for total population being down now thats why. government culling has not stopped, it has just changed. the publicity from the huge pit of dead headless carcasses going to waste put an end to bio's shooting from the sky. funding was pulled and now hunters are being used as the new generation of hired guns. not all zones down south have low populations either. some still have plenty of deer. like i said though, if the rumors i have been hearing come to reality, every mule buck in this province will be considered a liability.

i better clarify...cwd is not killing deer...it is a few misinformed biologists doling out a ton of extra tags that is causing the decline.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

number 1 for sure is cwd. the numbers were fine until a few years ago when the cwd issue came up. mature buck numbers have been down for much longer for reasons already mentioned, but for total population being down now thats why. government culling has not stopped, it has just changed. the publicity from the huge pit of dead headless carcasses going to waste put an end to bio's shooting from the sky. funding was pulled and now hunters are being used as the new generation of hired guns. not all zones down south have low populations either. some still have plenty of deer. like i said though, if the rumors i have been hearing come to reality, every mule buck in this province will be considered a liability.

i better clarify...cwd is not killing deer...it is a few misinformed biologists doling out a ton of extra tags that is causing the decline.

Thank you , that the answer I was looking for. Especially if were talking about the 100's. I remember years ago when they more than doubled certain zones draw numbers! Next to CwD that's the biggest problem wouldn't you guys agree

[packhuntr]

If you think its bad with no deer right now, wait till the Xbows get fired up and givin er. Id say there should be lotsa racks laying around for the shed hunters. Right on hey,,, progress!

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

[/B]

Thank you , that the answer I was looking for. Especially if were talking about the 100's. I remember years ago when they more than doubled certain zones draw numbers! Next to CwD that's the biggest problem wouldn't you guys agree

as stated, there is a guy in charge here who has clearly stated that he is a meat hunter and thinks everyone else should be too. every year we get him to come talk to the public about population numbers and what to expect from the draws. every year he gets requests to declare a zone or 2 as a managed trophy zone and every year he says no way, landowners want the population down. then a few landowners get up and argue no darn way. then its brought up that population control needs to be targeted at does and yada yada nothing changes.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

If you think its bad with no deer right now, wait till the Xbows get fired up and givin er. Id say there should be lotsa racks laying around for the shed hunters. Right on hey,,, progress!

Ah you killed my set up there Packhuntr, I was waiting for the Yes answer to through that one out there! Definatley on the same page there buddy.

[Stinky Coyote]

justin, if the extra kills you mentioned come in the early bow season then they aren't going to come out of the late season...a tag filled is a tag filled....you seem to be saying that a new population of people is just going to all of a sudden move to alberta and take up bowhunting so the overall hunter numbers is going to grow dramatically from this? i doubt it, might see a bunch more bow permits sold but it will be the majority of existing gun hunters and once their tags filled they don't get to run out in rifle season and fill it again......SRD will be able to manage things just fine imo, they'll know how many bow permits are out there etc.......that would mean more bowhunters, less gunhunters....i'm all for that, bows are awesome....ALL bows(crossbow included)....no noise, super safe, landowners must enjoy bow season so much more....real close and personal hunting....

and some other point....alberta has oodles of game with hardly any population compared to land space....especially compared to some of those states....surely ab is as big or bigger than ohio yet they have more bowhunters than we have hunters....wonder what their total hunter numbers are etc.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

justin, if the extra kills you mentioned come in the early bow season then they aren't going to come out of the late season...a tag filled is a tag filled....you seem to be saying that a new population of people is just going to all of a sudden move to alberta and take up bowhunting so the overall hunter numbers is going to grow dramatically from this? i doubt it, might see a bunch more bow permits sold but it will be the majority of existing gun hunters and once their tags filled they don't get to run out in rifle season and fill it again......SRD will be able to manage things just fine imo, they'll know how many bow permits are out there etc.......that would mean more bowhunters, less gunhunters....i'm all for that, bows are awesome....ALL bows(crossbow included)....no noise, super safe, landowners must enjoy bow season so much more....real close and personal hunting....

and some other point....alberta has oodles of game with hardly any population compared to land space....especially compared to some of those states....surely ab is as big or bigger than ohio yet they have more bowhunters than we have hunters....wonder what their total hunter numbers are etc.

Actually, there's a vast number of landowners and people that are also mis informed, because they believe that Bow hunters wound more game than anyone. Throw Xguns into the mix now, and our Rep ( bow hunters ) will be tarnished even more now......Most people will only see an arrow not a bolt!!!

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

If you think its bad with no deer right now, wait till the Xbows get fired up and givin er. Id say there should be lotsa racks laying around for the shed hunters. Right on hey,,, progress!

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Justin. By the "ANTI" Cross bow crowd own words, they say there will be no more hunters in the woods.
Everyone is allowed 1 Buck or bull of each species. Who gives a rat if they shoot it in Sept or November. You will still have a dead deer on the ground.
And besides, if you get this massive rush of new bow hunters, the voice of Alberta Bow hunters will be that much stronger. Which will lead to more dedicated seasons, more tags and more areas to hunt..

God, this is all so simple to me. But people get caught up in all the BS.
The Cross bow is a BOW.. End of story.
X-bows should be allowed in the Bow Season. There should be a month long dedicated Muzzle loading season.
That way the Bow Guys get a month
The Muzzle guys get a month
And the Rifle guys get a month.
And if a guy wishes to hunt with all 3 weapons.. HE CAN!!!

No one weapon is better or worse than the rest. Its all about the hunting!!

Simple isn't it?? (Please note I am talking about Southern Alberta)

And if I hear about the dedication Bow hunting takes one more time I am going to PUKE. Give me a Compound bow for one hour and I can punch the yellow at 50 yards with 3 arrows. When I get good I can slam 6 arrows into a bottom of a coke can at 50 yards.
Its not like you guys are doing rocket science here. Learn the technique and do it.
It's the hunting that is the hard part, and its hard no matter what weapon you chose.


Jamie

If you have never shot a bow Jamie i don't think you would be putting 6 arrows in a can at fifty yards within and hour. With a cross bow no problem!

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Dakota369

Easy.............it is a bow, always has been a bow, has been referred to as a bow throughout history.......everybody even non hunters knows it by the name crossbow.......and it shoots a projectile using the kinetic energy from a bow.......not a ignited flammable powder....................pretty plain and simple if ya ask me............

Ok if its a bow then i'll agree with everyone on here if they start making them like bows. Draw it back in front of an animal without getting busted, then hold that 100 lbs draw weight back with your arm power only while you aim the thing. Then realease the bolt and hit a target.

Make them this way an i'll consider calling it a bow. Otherwise its a cocked and loaded gun!

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

If you have never shot a bow Jamie i don't think you would be putting 6 arrows in a can at fifty yards within and hour. With a cross bow no problem!

Wow! You must be a heck of a shot with a crossbow!

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Rottie, you can qualify, all you need is a doctors note, on a yearly basis, to present to Fish and Wildlife, to obtain your permit. I'm sure your doctor or your physio, Massage therapist all could write you one and you would qualify. I looked into it once for a buddy, and F & W said that's all he would need.

So Gman is right, you qualify, no quomes, no new season needed!!!

The band wagon jumper wasn't directed at you , just a generalization for the potential epidemic that might occur.

Potty it's still pretty hard to get the permit. My dad's buddys was trying for years while he was dying of cancer. In the end he died before he ended up getting a permit.

Makes me wonder why its so hard to get...maybe because of the obvious advantages a XGun has?

[AbAngler]

Hmmm... Nothing new here. Same old, same old.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Hmmm... Nothing new here. Same old, same old.

So leave then.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Wow! You must be a heck of a shot with a crossbow!

Rob, you know what i mean.
I'd havent shot a XBow since the last Stampede so i'm sure i'd be pretty rusty.

[Rob Miskosky]

All I know is I've shot hundreds of arrows out of my crossbow and I certainly wouldn't stand up here and tell somebody I could do that consistantly. In a controlled environment, maybe. But then again I sat in the bleachers a couple of years ago at the Mother of All Shoots and watched guys with their compounds make some incredibly long shots look pretty darn easy.

[JustinC]

justin, if the extra kills you mentioned come in the early bow season then they aren't going to come out of the late season...a tag filled is a tag filled (quoted from stinky)



How the hell is that possible.If you need to draw a tag??? It take 2-6years to draw a gun tag.So how are you coming up with these numbers? Those tags dont change but when bow hunters double so do harvests.DO you understand. OVER HARVEST!!!!!!!!!!

[ishootbambi]

are you hunting with it rob, or just another toy to have some fun with?

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

All I know is I've shot hundreds of arrows out of my crossbow and I certainly wouldn't stand up here and tell somebody I could do that consistantly. In a controlled environment, maybe. But then again I sat in the bleachers a couple of years ago at the Mother of All Shoots and watched guys with their compounds make some incredibly long shots look pretty darn easy.

Long shots with a bow do become "easier" with practice. Most bowhunters i know shoot all year long. Some even everyday. I have a range at my place and my buddys and i are out everyday. As i'm sure you know the more you shoot the more steady you become and the holding of the draw weight (in my case 72 lbs) becomes easier.

All i'm saying is with a crossbow the shooter is not fiighting the draw weight and holding it. Plus, a Crossbow is way more steady with its shouldered stock then holding out an arm and holding something up. That just a fact isnt it?

So, with that being said, with practice what do you think is easier to master? A bow or a Crossbow? If there is not a distinct agvantage in using a crossbow then why are so many rifle hunters that have never bowhunted ready to pick up a crossbow and start hunting? I personally think it's because its a tool they are used to from rifle hunting and i also believe "they" think its easier to master as well. Of course they would never admit it. Otherwise, instead of complaining for years about bowhunters having a longer season why wouldnt they have picked up a bow?

[Dakota369]

[QUOTE=BowhuntAB;558149]Ok if its a bow then i'll agree with everyone on here if they start making them like bows. Draw it back in front of an animal without getting busted, then hold that 100 lbs draw weight back with your arm power only while you aim the thing. Then realease the bolt and hit a target.

What a stinking pile...............only re curve or traditional bows which are considered heavy at 60#'s are held at full weight while aiming.......what is the drop off for compounds something like 75%. I don't bow hunt and even I know that. Stop making yourself look naive.....

[BowhuntAB]

[QUOTE=Dakota369;558211]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

Ok if its a bow then i'll agree with everyone on here if they start making them like bows. Draw it back in front of an animal without getting busted, then hold that 100 lbs draw weight back with your arm power only while you aim the thing. Then realease the bolt and hit a target.

What a stinking pile...............only re curve or traditional bows which are considered heavy at 60#'s are held at full weight while aiming.......what is the drop off for compounds something like 75%. I don't bow hunt and even I know that. Stop making yourself look naive.....

What a stinking pile...? Maybe you missed some this morning.

Its called let off. Let off only comes into play once the bow is drawn back and held. Try it sometime. At 60% let off if you even creep a little the string will go forward. Besides you missed my point. How is it a bow when its not being held at draw??? Its pre loaded and ready to go!

Ok...you better go wipe now.