The pup is starting to make the connections

[aulrich]

I think the light is coming on! But why can I only find birds at the off leash.

So I come home from work last night, and I am in a bit of a mood, I got a lame dinner commitment, the pup is bouncing off the wall (the boys did not take him for a walk after school) and I have a never ending sidline job needing more work. So I bail on SWMBO on the lame dinner and give the excuse I need to work. So I sit grab a bite and say hi to the pup, who is still bouncing off the walls I still in my shoes so I grab the pup's leash and take him out, chanting internally, calm/assertive,calm/assertive. And once the pup gets over the "we are going out" excitment, settles in just nice. The clouds over my head start to part, and as we walk around to get a safe walk at where the birds are, there is a guy flying a small RC plane and it triggers a good chuckle seeing the pups reaction to the plan as it flys around(ok I am back in a good mood).

So as we decent into the coulee for the return home, Dash is walking cross wind and blunders into 15 Huns, litterally he was walking doing his thing and boom the grass around him errupts with birds, I give him that one since this is maybe his second contact with huns. Oddly enough this got his attention he gives a bit of a chase. Comes back and give the area a good sniffing, So after the investigation slows down I swing him around to slowly leave but he goes up the other side and pushes up another large covey at this point there are about 20-30 birds in this little park and this second group flies where I can follow them in without having to worry about a chase going over the road.

He chased the second group a little and on his way back to me scents and flushes a single stragler. And even though there has been nothing resembling a point, I am letting the boy know he is doing good, making sure he kows the smell of huns = a good thing. So after a another short time of sniffing the area down, we move on.

At this point I am expecting birds to bust out at every step, but after what seems to be an eternity, I notice him getting birdy then boom a point! so I hussle to get to him and as he breaks point moves up and points again and as I get up to him he breaks one more time points and then the bird flushes, if it was me or him who flushed the bird I can't say but if I was out hunting I would have shot at that bird for him.

We put up six more birds not all pointed, but mostly and it was neat to see the distance he was pointing at increasing with each flush, one was a solid 10 yards away.

Man I need to find some birds that I can shoot for him, without getting the cops on my head.

And though I had earned the wrath of SWMBO, since this quick walk was 2 hours long and the work I had to do did not start until she cam home, and I could have gone to the dinner, I'd do it again a training session like that is priceless.

[densa44]

I think that he has got it, flush the birds, don't chase because he won't catch them. A few minutes on the whoa post and he'll point the birds at the first wiff.

You can plant pigeons for him (that's what we all did) and that way of training will move the lessons on quickly.

Does he retrieve yet, it so give him some marks to break up the training. I'd use the water while we still have it.

Have fun.

[Gbuss]

All this talk about your pups makes me want to start training my pup. He is 3 years old and big. As in 100 lab that is 30" to the top of his shoulder and 5'7" tip of noise to tail. He has pointed befor at birds. We had him in jasper one spring as a pup and lead me right to a cow elk getting ready to calve.

[Gbuss]

All this talk about your pups makes me want to start training my pup. He is 3 years old and big. As in 100 lab that is 30" to the top of his shoulder and 5'7" tip of noise to tail. He has pointed befor at birds. We had him in jasper one spring as a pup and lead me right to a cow elk getting ready to calve.

[aulrich]

I have been working the whoa table,it's going slow, I have sort of done whoa post but I am not sure how to completely run a session. I have read the Huntsmith articles but I am just not getting it.

But I do have pigeons to plant

[densa44]

A short story; The idea is to get him to WHOA when to say WHOA.

You need 2 long lines with a snap on each one. Tie a long line to a post, anywhere will do, run the line under the dog, 1/2 hitch around his middle and the end (snap) to his collar. The second long line goes under his chin and snaps on his collar too.

You hold the second line and tighten up on the ropes by pulling him toward you. He may struggle a lot or not so much depending on the dog.

When the dog submits (licks his nose) the lesson is learned, say WHOA, slack off, tighten again easy does it, and say whoa.

Our dog took 20 mins. of tension (not trying to squeeze her in 2) for her to submit.

If this doesn't help, pm me and maybe we and provide a demonstration.

I take it this is a dog that points? If not my advice may not be any good.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by densa44

A short story; The idea is to get him to WHOA when to say WHOA.

You need 2 long lines with a snap on each one. Tie a long line to a post, anywhere will do, run the line under the dog, 1/2 hitch around his middle and the end (snap) to his collar. The second long line goes under his chin and snaps on his collar too.

You hold the second line and tighten up on the ropes by pulling him toward you. He may struggle a lot or not so much depending on the dog.

When the dog submits (licks his nose) the lesson is learned, say WHOA, slack off, tighten again easy does it, and say whoa.

Our dog took 20 mins. of tension (not trying to squeeze her in 2) for her to submit.

If this doesn't help, pm me and maybe we and provide a demonstration.

I take it this is a dog that points? If not my advice may not be any good.

I used a cloths line for that....worked great.

[joshcat]

I incorporate whoa into every day obedience. It is as common of a command as sit. Randomly while walking I issue and enforce. Repetition is the key. Every day I spend 15 minutes on obedience while out walking. Force fetching, heeling, stay, whoa.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

.

I take it this is a dog that points? If not my advice may not be any good.

Labs can learn the "whoa" command as well.

One must realize that just because we know what a word means, the dog does not- they have to learn what a particualr word is associatd with what function they are supposd to perform.
making a lab point , or a pointer flush, is contrary to what is "supposd " to be tought, according to the experts.
However, there are many dog owners out there that have tought their pointers to flush on command, to block and retrieve rabbits, and have tought their labs to point.

This is all blasphemy according to trialers and scush, but the dog owners who are using their dogs to hunt amnd not for field trials could give a rip!
As Joshcat said, use whoa as an everyday cpommand and it becomes as second natutre to the dog as "STOP!"i s to us!
Cat

[aulrich]

I have been doing indirect whoa since day 1(ok week eight + one day), anytime I had a leash or in his kennel and I want him to stand still, crossing door ways, streets and such, I also want him not to bolt out of the kennel when the door opens. So he has te concept of whoa, but I wish I could whoa him without correction on leash, it's like whoa, snap snap, then he stands still and stops pulling, but will stand still for a short while until released. on the whoa table I can get over a minute of him standing still.

Yea the first time I did the whoa post he went completely snake, scared the crap out of me, the article said to expect some resistance, I just did not expect that.

I do have him to the point where we snug up and he will stand there for some time. then both of us are thinking "now what". I had walked him side to side and said whoa as he snugged back up.

So I guess the early progression is.
1. Get the dog accepting the whoa post restriction
2. Staying in front of the dog release tension, when the dog moves give correction (increase duration and distance)
3. Start wandering around the dog, though it would probably take a helper at this point to provide the correction or destraction.

I am also figuring he needs to be almost done whoa before I have a pigeon on a string as the ultimate distraction.

Got another solid point out of him last night on a hen phesant 30 + seconds as I walked up to flush, and I got within 10 yards before the flush.

His search is really improving, a month ago with good motivation(though you could see he had hard charger in him) he was in the tall grass(stuff over his head) now he eats that up and last night he was forcing his way into the scrub brush that would have been a wall to him a couple of weeks ago. In that stuff I can see the value of flush on command.

[densa44]

The key here is not to expect a fully trained dog in just a few weeks. When he is on the whoa post, he now gets it, add the distractions, maybe a dead bird, a dummy with feathers and see what you get. If he stays put, move to birds.

Bye the way, the more excited the hunter gets the less steady the dog, don't ask how I know this. Try to stay as calm as possible.

When you slack off on the tension talk softly to the dog, whoa, good boy, that sort of thing.

You both seem to be coming along just fine.

More obedience will help too, now that you are both on the same page.

Practice a bit on the long stay, when you sit him down, leave your hat or something so that he knows you are coming back. Hide yourself from view. He should stay put for say 5 mins.

[aulrich]

That makes perfect sence, dogs can usually read you at other times, you come in all wired and hyped and the dog will be right there with you.

If I can get away with it, i'll try to get to the dog, and rather than go for the flush, pet him and try to calm him. But That will take another contact with the huns, it seems he has to get pretty close to a phesant to pin it.

[aulrich]

I found a good example, of whoa post, I had watched these before I got the pup, oddly it is clearer now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7WSjtsmmwc

[joshcat]

If anyone is in the peace river area I will be doing a training demonstration at the Peace County Gun Show in Grimshaw this weekend. Also have a Eukanuba display with lots of give away's. Also have a Navhda display with information. We will have both our shorthairs and some birds for our training and pointing/backing demo's