Alberta government announces changes to Grazing leases.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by RZR

There are azz clowns here that don't think that fences are a big deal and why should they worry about who has to repair them. The same goes for water, staying on trails and such. It's their God given right to access whatever they want whenever they want! You do know that ranchers are just about making money off the land and aren't about stewardship right!

What do you figure the ratio is of fences broken by ungulates vs broken by hunters? In the span of 2 days I personally watched one moose go through a fence and 2 elk. In all my years of being in the field I can only remember once seeing a person wreck a fence when their jacked up dodge rolled into the ditch and through the fence. I’d be willing to bet 99% of fence repairs is due to animals, not humans.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What do you figure the ratio is of fences broken by ungulates vs broken by hunters? In the span of 2 days I personally watched one moose go through a fence and 2 elk. In all my years of being in the field I can only remember once seeing a person wreck a fence when their jacked up dodge rolled into the ditch and through the fence. I’d be willing to bet 99% of fence repairs is due to animals, not humans.

More then you think by hunters!

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by BigCinnamon005

I am a lease holder and I know where you people are coming from. But there are a few dirt bags out there cutting fences, leaving gates open tearing up trails and leaving beer cans everywhere. So can you really blame some lease holders? We hate running into people on our leases because there is always a mess and fences to fix every single year. Ans no BS in the past 5 years between neighboring leases and ourselves there has been 3 different cows with arrows sticking out there sides. I have mixed feelings about increased access.

I get where you are coming from but do you really think those people who are accessing the lease properly are the ones doing this? I would say the majority of the hunters are not ones causing problems. Its the poachers and party goer's doing this kind of stuff. Not all fences are cut by people, moose and elk can simply walk through them. I have watched animals open gates before and walk through.
For years I worked patrolling farmer's lands during hunting season. The legitimate hunters who accessed these lands were of great help to us, unpaid eyes in the field with detailed knowledge of the land. Some farmers arranged it so anyone accessing the land would have to register with us, just a simple call with number of people, time and license plate. This made it very easy to know when someone who was not authorized to be there was trespassing. Those farmers that allowed more access were the ones that ultimately no longer required our services.

From my own experiences its the lease holders who restrict access and are a general pain to deal with are the ones that ultimately have the most problems. I personally had to get a lands officer involved to access one lease after being told "access would not be permitted ever, its my land now"
Lease holders need to know the land is not their land, it belongs to the crown, they just have certain rights and can not abuse them.

[WeaselBeard]

Originally Posted by Puma

I don't mean to attack the majority of lease holders, but we all know there is a longstanding issue with some. Take the Bar C Ranch ( partially owned by KLM Airlines I think,) west of Cochrane, I have lived and hunted on private and public land around there for almost 40 years. The ranch policy is "nobody hunts" (except their few special friends) on that lease land, nobody hikes , fishes, etc. Beautiful piece of property. Last I saw, they had shuttered the dude string and only had a few cows left. Permanent No Trespassing signs. They regularly send out letters to adjacent property owners in the area telling them no trespassing. They wanted to develop a hotel on part of the site, guess what ? Everyone opposed it.

Jason Nixon has responded to my inquiry, and said they are currently drafting some new policy. I will share when I get it.

To the lease holders on this site who abide by the terms of your lease, thank you.

We all look forward to what you are able to share on this new policy drafts.

[WeaselBeard]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I hate to have more government involvement but maybe in order to access a lease we need to ALL do a quick online course to “refresh” our minds about how to behave while on property. Watching a quick 29 minute video and answering some questions might get folks thinking.

So not quite 1/2 hour I guess.

[R3illy]

nixon hasnt responded to my inquiry on this subject and it's been 20 days. The auto response said 10 days to hear back.

[Puma]

Originally Posted by R3illy

nixon hasnt responded to my inquiry on this subject and it's been 20 days. The auto response said 10 days to hear back.

They did a press release yesterday, highlights were extending the lease terms to 20 years for leasee's who meet certain criteria. Allowing access is in the top 4 conditions. Others are environmental, grass mgmt, etc. I will post it when I have some more time.

Puma

[Puma]

https://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/a...czIaKocqHz4oj4

His direct reply to my concern regarding access.."That is part of the requirement to be considered a good steward and to be eligible" JN

[Alfiecat]

Originally Posted by Puma

https://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/a...czIaKocqHz4oj4

His direct reply to my concern regarding access.."That is part of the requirement to be considered a good steward and to be eligible" JN

This is all fine and dandy ... however where can we complain about the poor and bad lease holders !? I have a specific name in mine south along 22. Every hunter I’ve run into has had the same problems with access. I went up the chain and was going to deliver him an official complaint before he started playing ball. I still keep record of every contact I make and notes. Im waiting for him to refuse me again before I bring statements from 10 different hunters to the lease board and have it revoked. I will be following this and will see how my I put can show that this particular lease holder needs his bell rung and lands given back .. to the people (bane voice)

[R3illy]

I finally got a response from Nixon's office on the subject of leaseholders. The response highlighted why a leaseholder can deny access and made clear any lease can lock their gates and keep cattle on for as long as they want unless its specifically stated in their lease conditions.

It didnt really address the issue of leaseholders denying access other then if you have an issue please call the complaint line.

Seems a bit odd it would take 6-7 weeks for a canned response that didnt address the concern that the public is denied access way too often.

[ruffy71]

Originally Posted by BigCinnamon005

I am a lease holder and I know where you people are coming from. But there are a few dirt bags out there cutting fences, leaving gates open tearing up trails and leaving beer cans everywhere. So can you really blame some lease holders? We hate running into people on our leases because there is always a mess and fences to fix every single year. Ans no BS in the past 5 years between neighboring leases and ourselves there has been 3 different cows with arrows sticking out there sides. I have mixed feelings about increased access.

Unfortunately there are stupid people everywhere. Provincial parks, national parks, public and private campgrounds, basically everybody in society has to deal with them. Not just leasholders.

That doesn't mean leaseholders should have the right to behave like land owners. If you want to keep meatheads off of your land, buy it. Otherwise, you have to put up with idiots like the rest of us. That is the devil's bargain everybody strikes when having to deal with the great unwashed. Your focus needs to shift to punishing the idiots, I know, that is not easy. If you instead focus of keeping law abiding people off of public land, the friction will grow. As it should.

[R3illy]

it seems based off Nixon's response to me that they dont see public access being an issue they need to address.

[pa_of_6]

I bet that many of these leases were issued before quads were invented and for some reason allowed to go and rip up the wet areas....

And I do wish they were still called “crown “ land instead of public land.

I feel for the ranchers that have gates left open, garbage dumped, assets vandalized, cattle shot...

If we are going to allow grazing leases and make the rancher accountable for the stewardship of that land, then they should have control over access.

The hunters that access public land are not accountable for anything...
They can rip it up with their quads that leaves decades of damage and they don’t care.

Maybe there needs to be a way to evaluate the people who are accessing public land, and it they are damaging it, they should be publicized and fined

A lot of this issue would vanish if it was foot access only...

People are too lazy to walk... gotta rip her up with their toy!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by pa_of_6

I bet that many of these leases were issued before quads were invented and for some reason allowed to go and rip up the wet areas....

And I do wish they were still called “crown “ land instead of public land.

I feel for the ranchers that have gates left open, garbage dumped, assets vandalized, cattle shot...

If we are going to allow grazing leases and make the rancher accountable for the stewardship of that land, then they should have control over access.

The hunters that access public land are not accountable for anything...
They can rip it up with their quads that leaves decades of damage and they don’t care.

Maybe there needs to be a way to evaluate the people who are accessing public land, and it they are damaging it, they should be publicized and fined

A lot of this issue would vanish if it was foot access only...

People are too lazy to walk... gotta rip her up with their toy!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A stipulation of foot access only can be put on lease land, talk to your land manager. I agree foot access would solve a lot of problems and create a lot better hunting opportunities. On really big leases it could get a little onerous though, a few guys down here us bicycles.

[alpinebeers]

Originally Posted by RZR

More then you think by hunters!

So you don't really know you are just making assumptions then.

[rca]

Originally Posted by expedition

If you ask the people who enforce they claim to be under manned.

When I tried to complain to one of the workers

the basic response I got back

"They can basically act like they own the land"

so in otherwords, you're wasting your time

[elk eater]

Less people on the land isnt the answer. The more eyes watching the better, its free security.


Its amazing the access you can keep and gain when farmers and ranchers know your out there not tearing the place apart and have an interest in helping their livelihood. Be a ranch hand they dont have to pay and access wont be an issue.[/QUOTE]

This is true it helps a pile. Have a section of family land that was a complete free for all. Dirt bikes, quads, dumping ground for stolen vehicles, poaching, dumping of trash, damaged equipment, fences cut constantly. Got a few good hunters in there on a regular basis and presto most of the shenanigans came to a halt. First year was the worst. Hunters Found 4 dead mule deer shot and left including one trophy buck. Had a few confrontations with guys on quads. The ones we caught we removed the keys from the machine and sent them on foot back home. ( report to RCMP ). Ran into a few hunters including an arrow flying past my stand at a doe I was watching followed by a man running for his life when I called out to him. Found one guy in a stand that was set their by a local guiding outfit ( no permission of course ). Took awhile but within 3 years of good hunters on patrol the land is peaceful now. Family is happy and hunters are happy.

Instead of reporting a broken fence to a farmer try fixing it and then let him know what you found and how you helped. When you come to ask permission bring a can of coffee and make a friend if they are local. Be respectful on their roads and their land. Treat it like your own.

[trapperdodge]

Nixon hasn't replied to me. It's not good thing when a public servant wont respond to a legitimate argument.

[N.S.hunter]

I've heard rumor that something along these lines are in process. point click enter your name and info. nothing lease holders can say.