Alberta government announces changes to Grazing leases.

Puma · #1 07-10-2019, 09:58 AM

As part of the new governments commitment to reducing red tape, the was announced today.

Alberta Government announces extending grazing lease tenure for ranchers who exemplify extraordinary commitment to conservation of the land.

I saw this on Ministers Jason Nixon's Facebook page today and decided to add this comment :

What is really needed with the leasing of public lands, is clamping down on the lease holders who dont allow access onto these lands as per the terms of the lease. Too many ranchers treat these lands like they own them. These are public lands, not your own private hunting preserves.

· Reply · 11h
Jason Nixon (Like)
Jason Nixon to Scott Michael : Part of the requirement to be eligible is allowing proper access.

I see a few others have also commented to Minister Nixon on this ongoing issue. This is an opportunity to let him know what the Public Landowners concerns are with access to these public lands, and the dispute process when we are denied access.

Jasons email address is

Rimbey.RockyMountainhouse.Sundre@assembly.ab.ca

His phone number is 1 866-516-4966

Purple Farmer · #2 07-10-2019, 10:38 AM

A little click bait, no real changes underway. the process for access is well established.

Crock44 · #3 07-10-2019, 10:42 AM

in for updates

Puma · #4 07-10-2019, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Farmer

A little click bait, no real changes underway. the process for access is well established.

Click bait ?

If all the lease holders of public lands would abide by the terms of their lease, there wouldn't be an issue.

KyleSS · #5 07-10-2019, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puma

Click bait ? That shows which side of the CW fence you stand on.

If all the lease holders of public lands would abide by the terms of their lease, there wouldn't be an issue.

If all recreational users would abide by the terms and conditions of the leases, there wouldn't be an issue

Puma · #6 07-10-2019, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleSS

If all recreational users would abide by the terms and conditions of the leases, there wouldn't be an issue

I couldn't agree with you more.

Purple Farmer · #7 07-10-2019, 10:48 AM

so we have established if the rules are followed, everything is ok.

Grizzly Adams · #8 07-10-2019, 11:53 AM

who exemplify extraordinary commitment to conservation of the land.

Betting these are the large scale lease holders with political connections, but few cows.

Grizz

Bigwoodsman · #9 07-10-2019, 12:18 PM

The problem sounds like enforcement! The rules are there, everyone needs to be in compliance. Enforcement should be the focus.

BW

trapperdodge · #10 07-10-2019, 09:58 PM

I've hunted quite a bit in New Mexico. A lot of the land is public. The ranchers have grazing rights but cannot deny access, even if livestock is present.

expedition · #11 07-10-2019, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

The problem sounds like enforcement! The rules are there, everyone needs to be in compliance. Enforcement should be the focus.

BW

If you ask the people who enforce they claim to be under manned.

Lefty-Canuck · #12 07-10-2019, 11:40 PM

This whole lease issue goes both ways, I have had issues and I have had smooth sailing.

LC

landowner · #13 07-10-2019, 11:49 PM

They are extending tenure to leaseholders who show extra commitments to conservation. Why are some of you using this as a platform to attack leaseholders ? It’s a good thing , jeesh

leeelmer · #14 07-11-2019, 10:29 AM

I think this is fantastic. But most people are still just upset about access from many leaseholders.
I think the issue is that things need to change drastically to fix all the issues.
There are solutions, but coming up with a program that everyone is happy with just is not there.
We need to stop giving lease holders surface rights, its crown land, why in the world are oil companys paying lease holders?? its crown land.
Why do we have to contact lease holders? Would it not be easier for all parties, if there was a system you had to check in on a lease, online, read and agree to the conditions, input your info(truck info, win# and date of access)
I know a few lease holders that are tired of being phoned 500 times during hunting season, don't blame them. SO make it simple.
Put more man power in the office to fix problems.
Have the easy ability for lease managers to revoke leases if there are constant problems, right now this can take a pile of time, and most don't want to do the amount of paperwork required.

Deer Hunter · #15 07-11-2019, 11:28 AM

The potential of removing surface lease payments to leaseholders are part of the reason why they are pushing so hard to be able to lease for such long periods. It would be hard to change lease conditions without leaseholder compensation this way.

Scott h · #16 07-11-2019, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trapperdodge

I've hunted quite a bit in New Mexico. A lot of the land is public. The ranchers have grazing rights but cannot deny access, even if livestock is present.

That would fix the problem instantaneously. Foot access only and both parties should be happy.

Scott h · #17 07-11-2019, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeelmer

I think this is fantastic. But most people are still just upset about access from many leaseholders.
I think the issue is that things need to change drastically to fix all the issues.
There are solutions, but coming up with a program that everyone is happy with just is not there.
We need to stop giving lease holders surface rights, its crown land, why in the world are oil companys paying lease holders?? its crown land.
Why do we have to contact lease holders? Would it not be easier for all parties, if there was a system you had to check in on a lease, online, read and agree to the conditions, input your info(truck info, win# and date of access)
I know a few lease holders that are tired of being phoned 500 times during hunting season, don't blame them. SO make it simple.
Put more man power in the office to fix problems.
Have the easy ability for lease managers to revoke leases if there are constant problems, right now this can take a pile of time, and most don't want to do the amount of paperwork required.

Some very good, common sense ideas.

boah · #18 07-11-2019, 06:14 PM

Access should be given to everyone year round. No permission needed. But, muscle power only. Only exception would be in dry conditions decided by the govt, not the leaseholder. No more problems.

trapperdodge · #19 07-11-2019, 08:18 PM

I agree that leaseholders need certainty. The lease needs to be a long one so the rancher can forward plan.

This is public land and the public should have access. There should be no option for denial.

The rancher gets access to the grass. Any assets on the lease such as timber, sand and gravel or oil and gas belong to the crown. Disturbance payments for any damaged grass are fine.

Crown lease should be no different than a registered trapline. The trapper isn't getting paid for much disturbance and neither should an owner of a grass lease. It's public land.

ram crazy · #20 07-11-2019, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trapperdodge

I've hunted quite a bit in New Mexico. A lot of the land is public. The ranchers have grazing rights but cannot deny access, even if livestock is present.

We’re not in New Mexico!

Puma · #21 07-11-2019, 09:19 PM

I don't mean to attack the majority of lease holders, but we all know there is a longstanding issue with some. Take the Bar C Ranch ( partially owned by KLM Airlines I think,) west of Cochrane, I have lived and hunted on private and public land around there for almost 40 years. The ranch policy is "nobody hunts" (except their few special friends) on that lease land, nobody hikes , fishes, etc. Beautiful piece of property. Last I saw, they had shuttered the dude string and only had a few cows left. Permanent No Trespassing signs. They regularly send out letters to adjacent property owners in the area telling them no trespassing. They wanted to develop a hotel on part of the site, guess what ? Everyone opposed it.

Jason Nixon has responded to my inquiry, and said they are currently drafting some new policy. I will share when I get it.

To the lease holders on this site who abide by the terms of your lease, thank you.

thumper · #22 07-11-2019, 11:37 PM

I've never heard of any leaseholder ever being punished in any way for not following the access rules, yet every year, hunters are charged for not following them.

We've all seen the notices posted in the regs and in outdoor magazines, telling hunters what their responsibilities are to gain access to grazing leases, with threats of charges being laid for ignoring those rules - yet I've never seen any effort to educate the leaseholders of what their responsibilities are, nor have I heard what repercussions they might face for not following the rules.

I don't expect this to change under any provincial government.

albertadave · #23 07-12-2019, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeelmer

I think this is fantastic. But most people are still just upset about access from many leaseholders.
I think the issue is that things need to change drastically to fix all the issues.
There are solutions, but coming up with a program that everyone is happy with just is not there.
We need to stop giving lease holders surface rights, its crown land, why in the world are oil companys paying lease holders?? its crown land.
Why do we have to contact lease holders? Would it not be easier for all parties, if there was a system you had to check in on a lease, online, read and agree to the conditions, input your info(truck info, win# and date of access)
I know a few lease holders that are tired of being phoned 500 times during hunting season, don't blame them. SO make it simple.
Put more man power in the office to fix problems.
Have the easy ability for lease managers to revoke leases if there are constant problems, right now this can take a pile of time, and most don't want to do the amount of paperwork required.

This is bang on!! The only thing that I would add is that all livestock be off lease land by October 15 every year.

philintheblank · #24 07-12-2019, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeelmer

I think this is fantastic. But most people are still just upset about access from many leaseholders.
I think the issue is that things need to change drastically to fix all the issues.
There are solutions, but coming up with a program that everyone is happy with just is not there.
We need to stop giving lease holders surface rights, its crown land, why in the world are oil companys paying lease holders?? its crown land.
Why do we have to contact lease holders? Would it not be easier for all parties, if there was a system you had to check in on a lease, online, read and agree to the conditions, input your info(truck info, win# and date of access)
I know a few lease holders that are tired of being phoned 500 times during hunting season, don't blame them. SO make it simple.
Put more man power in the office to fix problems.
Have the easy ability for lease managers to revoke leases if there are constant problems, right now this can take a pile of time, and most don't want to do the amount of paperwork required.

its 2019... there should be an APP for that!

I have been reading up an a few state wildlife websites and a few have pretty successful land access programs with private lands owners and grazers alike, cant be that difficult, the will to do anything just isn't there for the Alberta government.

ESOXangler · #25 07-12-2019, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ram crazy

We’re not in New Mexico!

Good call. Was it the weather that tipped you off?

New Mexico is exactly how it should be. Its public land end stop.

And I don't see Minister Nixon making to making changes to the deal. Lots of lease owners in his riding.

RZR · #26 07-13-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

And I don't see Minister Nixon making to making changes to the deal. Lots of lease owners in his riding.

I don’t see a problem with that!

BigCinnamon005 · #27 07-18-2019, 03:16 AM

I am a lease holder and I know where you people are coming from. But there are a few dirt bags out there cutting fences, leaving gates open tearing up trails and leaving beer cans everywhere. So can you really blame some lease holders? We hate running into people on our leases because there is always a mess and fences to fix every single year. Ans no BS in the past 5 years between neighboring leases and ourselves there has been 3 different cows with arrows sticking out there sides. I have mixed feelings about increased access.

RZR · #28 07-18-2019, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCinnamon005

I am a lease holder and I know where you people are coming from. But there are a few dirt bags out there cutting fences, leaving gates open tearing up trails and leaving beer cans everywhere. So can you really blame some lease holders? We hate running into people on our leases because there is always a mess and fences to fix every single year. Ans no BS in the past 5 years between neighboring leases and ourselves there has been 3 different cows with arrows sticking out there sides. I have mixed feelings about increased access.

There are azz clowns here that don't think that fences are a big deal and why should they worry about who has to repair them. The same goes for water, staying on trails and such. It's their God given right to access whatever they want whenever they want! You do know that ranchers are just about making money off the land and aren't about stewardship right!

calgarychef · #29 07-18-2019, 07:14 AM

I hate to have more government involvement but maybe in order to access a lease we need to ALL do a quick online course to “refresh” our minds about how to behave while on property. Watching a quick 29 minute video and answering some questions might get folks thinking.

Versatile · #30 07-18-2019, 08:04 AM

If we would start policing ourselves it would cut down on alot of these issues. Write down license plates and what you see so in 2 days, weeks, or months when the lease holder calls because a fence was cut or cow was shot you can say it wasnt you but here is what you saw.

Less people on the land isnt the answer. The more eyes watching the better, its free security.

I do what I mentioned above. A couple years ago people were tearing a local lease up and that speing there was suddenly locks on all the gates, 20 miles of new 4 strand barb wire and walking access only. Cant blame him for doing so, luckily reporting some suspicious activity in the past and keeping a good relationship has allowed me permission with my truck, horse trailer and all the access I need to train; even when its full of cattle.

Its amazing the access you can keep and gain when farmers and ranchers know your out there not tearing the place apart and have an interest in helping their livelihood. Be a ranch hand they dont have to pay and access wont be an issue.