How come we're getting screwed

[Don Andersen]

OK - I understand rec centers, swimming pools, soccer fields, hockey arenas, baseball diamonds and the like. If you are going to increase the population you should/must/could do all of the above.
But what about the fishermen. To date, I haven't seen Govt jump into the fishing fray and make a lot of "new" fisheries. Sure irrigation dams get used but what about the rest of us.

In fact it's going the wrong way.

Over the past 25 years both streams and lakes have been "lost" to fishermen. What is the Govt intending to do to replace them and further to provide more not less angling opportunities?

regards,


Don

[C Taylor]

I've been wondering if maybe we are in a poor province that just can't afford the luxery of fishing. When talking to SRD the first thing out of thier mouths is that they don't have the budget. If you go to a fish & wildlife office it'll most likely be closed because they can't afford to stay open 5 days a week.
It looks like the goverment would sooner not have fish & game out there to worry about.You always hear how much Alberta's population has and will be growing but how much has SRD's budget grown?

[Guitarplayingfish]

Alberta has the highest fisherman to water body ratio out of any of the provinces... That doesn't help either... I believe I read 300:1 or something along those lines.

[cube]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayingfish

Alberta has the highest fisherman to water body ratio out of any of the provinces... That doesn't help either... I believe I read 300:1 or something along those lines.

With all due respect, with fewer lakes to manage and police it should be much cheaper to fund facilities, enforcement and education. Lots of fishing licence money and taxes only having to go to a couple of lakes. But the PC party at the time decided to keep taxes low and close or privatize facilities instead. They also have always dramatically underfunded “Fish and Wildlife”. Whenever cuts came they were always first on the chopping block, and usually got the deepest whack.

[icefever]

Maybe as fishermen and sportsmen we need to start being vocal, squeeky wheel gets the grease. I have seen examples where a small group has made a difference in the fishery by having studies done and lobbying the government for change. Is it turning into a case where we expect everything to be done for us, maybe we need to start doing somethings on our own if we care that much about it

[Bigtoad]

Increase fishing license cost (maybe hunting too?)and then make sure it gets put back into SRD. There were just over 250,000 fishermen last year in Alberta. I would assume that is just based on the number of licenses sold. They're just over $20 for a license right? So put it up to $40 and that extra $20 (If put back into SRD) translates into $5,000,000. We could buy a few extra employees and officers for that couldn't we?

Of course, the gov't would end up doing a survey or study to see if we really need to increase the number of officers/workers and the survey alone would cost $10 million so maybe it isn't such a good idea after all.

Cheers.

[Okotokian]

I must be missing something. I go to lots of lakes and streams and catch fish. What are your expectations?

If you think the government should spend money and guarantee that you can land 40 fish per day or get yourself that "lunker" that you can have mounted, I think there are more important things to spend tax dollars on.

[Woody_16]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I must be missing something. I go to lots of lakes and streams and catch fish. What are your expectations?

If you think the government should spend money and guarantee that you can land 40 fish per day or get yourself that "lunker" that you can have mounted, I think there are more important things to spend tax dollars on.

I don't think that's what they mean.. this issue is this:

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Over the past 25 years both streams and lakes have been "lost" to fishermen. What is the Govt intending to do to replace them and further to provide more not less angling opportunities?

Originally Posted by Guitarplayingfish

Alberta has the highest fisherman to water body ratio out of any of the provinces... That doesn't help either... I believe I read 300:1 or something along those lines.

[Guitarplayingfish]

I don't think it's about the fishing, it is about the F&W enforcement and the way they handle alberta fisheries. There are very few F&W officers now a days, and not only does that mean a lot of poachers get away with their deeds, but it is up to the general public to play a huge part in enforcing the law. We need more conservation efforts, and places like ASRD need a hell of a lot more funding.

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I must be missing something. I go to lots of lakes and streams and catch fish. What are your expectations?

If you think the government should spend money and guarantee that you can land 40 fish per day or get yourself that "lunker" that you can have mounted, I think there are more important things to spend tax dollars on.

Im simply concerned about the lack of monitoring on many lakes and streams. Surveys have been cut drastically since the 70's and 80's. When i look back at how many mountain lake assessments and how much research was completed then its almost hard to comprehend how little is done now.

[Guitarplayingfish]

Originally Posted by jrs

Im simply concerned about the lack of monitoring on many lakes and streams. Surveys have been cut drastically since the 70's and 80's. When i look back at how many mountain lake assessments and how much research was completed then its almost hard to comprehend how little is done now.

I agree 100%... More research.. more jobs... Most of the jobs I see now a days stem from oil companies. I love working with fish, but honestly I would much rather work towards conservation rather than for a company who just wants to get their hands on dirty money (oil and gas).

[Freedom55]

I am not sure what you mean by "streams and lakes lost to us". Define this please.

Is it your opinion that the province should dig a bunch of pot holes, connect them with canals and create an artificial angling destination? Define your proposal for rectifcation.

You'd think that after reading the long argument on this forum last year about creating a quality fishery here in AB that you would have given up on this sow's ear. Plus, if the numbers Bigtoad quoted are to believed, then fewer than 6% of the population cares one way or the other. I'll bet there are more people living on welfare than 6%; people who cannot afford to pay attention much less spend $ on gear and travel.

And stop referring to "The Government" like it is some kind of omnipotent entity. It is just you and I and the rest of the mugs in this province, not some mystical miracle maker able to conjur up a new piece of the Cambrian shield and plunk it down close by your house.

As for the incessant bleating that more enforcement will improve the quality/numbers of the fish, you've missed Mr. Anderson's point.

Free

[italk2u]

i recall a statscan survey a while back that pointed out that the number of anglers in canada is dropping by 2% per year since 1995.
Fewer anglers and a higher age group average is probably as good a reason as any for the province to cutback on fishing opportunities.
The median age of anglers in Alberta is 48 for men and 44 for women.
While registrations for hockey, soccer, baseball and rec centres soars, AFGA's membership has dwindled to something like 14,000.

[Don Andersen]

Just a short list of what has been lost as fishing opportunity.

From south>north

1] Dipping Vat lake
2] The lower Oldman River
3] The lower Castle River
4] The lower Crowsnest River
5] Hartell Dam




Don

[steelhead]

Dont forget the provincial campgrounds that they erased that were along many lakes and rivers.


There was one at the Sheep river and HWY 2 at one time. Just a dog walk park now.

And the one at the Scandia bridge on the Bow river. Just a field.

the list is huge.

Richest province in Canada. My big toe.


No more spreading the anglers out with camping oppourtunities. Force them all to one "for profit" campground on our vulnerable waters. Thattle help.


Keep in mind, if they pay for studies, those studies may and probably will be the death of many oilfield projects in this province. And who wants that?? lol


STEELHEAD

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Just a short list of what has been lost as fishing opportunity.

From south>north

1] Dipping Vat lake
2] The lower Oldman River
3] The lower Castle River
4] The lower Crowsnest River
5] Hartell Dam




Don

now to clarify ,you mean no longer contain fish or not accessible to anglers.

[Bhflyfisher]

Maybe if people on online forums didnt blab to the world they caught 20 4lb cutties at Extraspecial Creek and exact directions to the exact holes, and the exact methods to use.....

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

now to clarify ,you mean no longer contain fish or not accessible to anglers.

Im not sure either, I fish the Lower Oldman

[thumper]

I'd like to see more public access points. It's pretty tough finding access or launches to many of our lakes and rivers. I'd like to see the existing right-of-ways developed to waters edge, with parking areas and signage. Maybe a simple floating dock at some, that a kid could fish off of. Some states do a very good job of it.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by thumper

I'd like to see more public access points. It's pretty tough finding access or launches to many of our lakes and rivers. I'd like to see the existing right-of-ways developed to waters edge, with parking areas and signage. Maybe a simple floating dock at some, that a kid could fish off of. Some states do a very good job of it.

I feel the opposite,the only reason fish exist in many of our water ways is because of limited access or catch& release.

[BeeGuy]

Maybe we need to annex part of BC or SK.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

I feel the opposite,the only reason fish exist in many of our water ways is because of limited access or catch& release.

LImiting access to a public resource is no way to manage it. The fish are not the only resource in a water way the water way its self is a resource that should be accessible to the public.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

LImiting access to a public resource is no way to manage it. The fish are not the only resource in a water way the water way its self is a resource that should be accessible to the public.

I have my own little scotsmans creek, the only reason exists as so is the fact that it is protected by private land. in years past this was not the case and by all accounts was a barren streach of river. there is free access for any that wish to hike the mile or so to gain access but folks are getting lazier as time goes by .I understand where your coming from I do not speak of making access harder,just not making it any easier..

[Kim473]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

I have my own little scotsmans creek, the only reason exists as so is the fact that it is protected by private land. in years past this was not the case and by all accounts was a barren streach of river. there is free access for any that wish to hike the mile or so to gain access but folks are getting lazier as time goes by .I understand where your coming from I do not speak of making access harder,just not making it any easier..

Bigger and better 4x4 s, Quads, snowmobiles, These have made all more access easier. After a year of travelling on the trails with these things, the trail becomes a road and a car can drive to them.

Close all lakes for fishing for two years and the quantity and quality will climb. Will also give F&W two years to do there studies.

I have been fishing about 20 times this year and only seen F&W once. Thats how few there is out there. Should have seen them at least 10 times out of the 20.

[Outcast 1100]

there is only one solution to this matter. The Fresh Water Fisheries Society Of Alberta.

[BeeGuy]

I would expect that Alberta spends more per water body than any other province in the country.

How much resources should we spend to artificially enhance our fisheries?

Wrt lost access, yes, this is a serious problem.

[tallieho]

i have asked the question why many times about the loss of Dipping Vat lake.there has not been any stocking in DV for 3 yrs.There is apparantly a water/ land issue.If you can belive this statement from SRD.There was never a water lic. issued for this lake.The landowner wants millions in compensation for erosion .when i think back.Srd was at one time was going to make this a quality lake fishery.the vote went against making a qlf.After that happened the lake went on a tail spin into obilvion.our lakes & water resources need friends....Outcast we don't have an actvist of the stature of MR.CHAN...Who imo was given carte blanche to put there fisheries on the World Map...Fisheries monies staying in the fisheries was a huge accomplishment[not gen.rev.],A few other huge things in there favor ofcourse are the amt. of water bodies that they have compared to us...

[Don Andersen]

WayneChristie,


I used to fish the Oldman & Castle north of PIncher and Cowley. Gotta do it with scuba gear now. The river is now under 200' of water. Tough to make a cast.
But its full of suckers.
Kinda like the mileage between the dam and the falls. Sucker heaven. Most of the trout are gone.
But I guess this is what Ken Kowlaski [the Govt Minster @ the time the dam was built] meant when he told the angling public "no net loss of the fishery". The silly **** counts suckers.



Don

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

I have my own little scotsmans creek, the only reason exists as so is the fact that it is protected by private land. in years past this was not the case and by all accounts was a barren streach of river. there is free access for any that wish to hike the mile or so to gain access but folks are getting lazier as time goes by .I understand where your coming from I do not speak of making access harder,just not making it any easier..

A creek or stream that has always had a limited access I have no problem with and hope you and the very few that will trudge to it will enjoy it for years. I do have a problem when public access to public waters are closed. Closing of a lake to fishing for a period of time to allow the fishery to replenish its self is sometimes necessary. But the closing of water way accesses to make it more inaccessible to the general public is not.

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

WayneChristie,


I used to fish the Oldman & Castle north of PIncher and Cowley. Gotta do it with scuba gear now. The river is now under 200' of water. Tough to make a cast.
But its full of suckers.
Kinda like the mileage between the dam and the falls. Sucker heaven. Most of the trout are gone.
But I guess this is what Ken Kowlaski [the Govt Minster @ the time the dam was built] meant when he told the angling public "no net loss of the fishery". The silly **** counts suckers.



Don

sorry I was thinking you meant the Lower Oldman, when you said the lower Oldman. I only fish the lower Oldman . Far as I remember the development permits were denied for the Oldman dam, but it was built anyways. but I tend to forget a lot nowadays